Back From the Game

[Royal Lady]

And as I said, if players are complaining of being "too tired" cos they played 2 games in 3 days after a rest of a couple of weeks, there's something radically wrong somewhere. I'm glad you would have accepted that as an excuse if we were fighting against relegation and played with the same players and rested the others. In any case, shouldn't Ivar be "too tired" - hasn't he played practically if not EVERY league game this season?

[Wycombe Royal]

but it's just a plain fact.

No, it's an opinion. What your "best team" is isn't a fact.

Doyle - 2 goals in 13 appearances.
Kitson - 1 goal in 10 appearances.

Those are facts.

It is a fact that we didn't play our best team in any of the games I mentioned and i'm sure there isn't a single fan, player or club official that would argue that we did.

Best team - loses at Old Trafford.
Weakened team - draws at Old Trafford.

Best team - loses 2-0 at Anfield.
Weakened team - loses 4-3 at Anfield.

You see the definition between best team/weakened team is pretty non-exisitent.

Our best team drew 0-0 at Watford, whilst our weakened team drew 0-0 at Charlton.

[Adrian's Fool]

And as I said, if players are complaining of being "too tired" cos they played 2 games in 3 days after a rest of a couple of weeks, there's something radically wrong somewhere. I'm glad you would have accepted that as an excuse if we were fighting against relegation and played with the same players and rested the others. In any case, shouldn't Ivar be "too tired" - hasn't he played practically if not EVERY league game this season?

I don't suppose ANY players were "complaining" of being too tired, however it is natural that different players will react differently to tqwo games in 3 days - we know for a fact that some players are more up to it than others and probably it would affect those who haven't played as much recently/ are coming back from injury (Doyle, Kitson, Oster, Gunnarsson, Duberry by pure chance... )

In any case, as has also been pointed out, we haven't exactly been setting the world alight with our "best" team recently....

[Stranded]

Who says the players are complaining about being too tired?

Maybe the management simply felt they would be or would not be at full pelt. Why when you have a squad of players that are all of a similar level of ability (esp in the positions changed) would you not pick a fresher pair of legs when it will have little detriment to the team as a whole.

It was made clear before the Liverpool game that Coppell would be utilising his squad over the Easter games and he has done exactly that.

[Vision]

Personally I think we're coasting a little now which I think is dangerous and bad form for those who are paying to watch a side almost going through the motions.

Nail on the head for me there, I am considering abandoning the two remaining away trips even if they cost me money. I'm not putting aside an entire day to travel to the North West to see that sort of performance. I was thinking to myself after the game that I now know what it is like to watch Citeh or Boro week in week out, it was quite depressing

I still can't see any evidence , from the players, in terms of effort and committment that suggest we are coasting. As I've said we lack a bit of quality and composure (particularly when Little doesn't play) but the effort and endeavour to win the game was always there.

On at least 2 occasions in the 2nd half last night we had so many players in the opposition penalty area that we were actually taking the ball of the heads of our own players.

To take the argument to extremes, if Coppell chose to play me up front and not sub me for the entire game, I would give 100% but it could be argued that the club were not trying 100% to win the game.

It could equally be argued that a manager that doesn't make any changes to a team which has failed to win in their previous 7 games is also not trying 100% to win a game. Would i have picked a different starting 11? Almost certainly but perhaps the players that were left out of the starting 11 are the ones in the view of the manager ( the one that seems them every day ) that are coasting.

It was an attempt as Coppell stated to freshen up a side who hadn't been on the best of runs. Given the committment shown by those selected it's a fair argument. It also stopped a sequence of 4 consecutive away defeats.

As for substitutions , they do not necessarily improve things as Saturday showed. It could equally be arrgued that to change the pattern and personell of a side that are dominating the game is equally "not trying to 100% to win. Long ( and his inclusion for 90 mins seems to be your main argument that we didn't try to win the the game ) didn't have the best of games but he still should have earned us a penalty late on in the game. Had he been removed whose to say any other contributors would have produced better.

[Skin]

I can't be bothered to read 7 pages of what mostly appears to be fickle fans who are pissed off because we didn't win last night.
Some of the comments on here and the Leroy thread and the Sidwell thread are nothing short of a joke.
If you think your team don't try or individuals don't deserve your support then why are you bothering supporting them? You obviously know more than SC, and must know the players personally to know how they feel and what they think?
Since when did we start expecting to win every game and play like international superstars week in week out?

[Royal Lady]

Well, we know that SC and JM don't want us in Europe - so you could kind of understand our slight unhappiness that we make the effort to go to away games and some of us feel that we didn't try our very best to win.

[Schards#2]

I can't be bothered to read 7 pages of what mostly appears to be fickle fans who are pissed off because we didn't win last night.
Some of the comments on here and the Leroy thread and the Sidwell thread are nothing short of a joke.
If you think your team don't try or individuals don't deserve your support then why are you bothering supporting them? You obviously know more than SC, and must know the players personally to know how they feel and what they think?
Since when did we start expecting to win every game and play like international superstars week in week out?

If you bothered to read the previous seven pages, you probably wouldn't have posted that load of tripe.

If you can't be bothered to read other people's opinions then you have no right to comment on them.

[Huntley & Palmer]

I can't be bothered to read 7 pages of what mostly appears to be fickle fans who are pissed off because we didn't win last night.
Some of the comments on here and the Leroy thread and the Sidwell thread are nothing short of a joke.
If you think your team don't try or individuals don't deserve your support then why are you bothering supporting them? You obviously know more than SC, and must know the players personally to know how they feel and what they think?
Since when did we start expecting to win every game and play like international superstars week in week out?

I won't be supporting them away from home now unless I fancy a day out

[brendywendy]

youd stop going to away matches full stop, becuase we played long up front last night?

[Royal Lady]

arggh. as I've already said, who's to say that our so-called "best players" weren't too tired to play yesterday? how on earth do YOU know that they were our "best" players on the day? What about repercussions for the rest of the season/ next season - don't they matter?

You brought up the bit about them possibly being too tired - so please don't try and turn it around, Frimmers stylee.

[Royal Lady]

youd stop going to away matches full stop, becuase we played long up front last night?

Where did he say that?

[Adrian's Fool]

arggh. as I've already said, who's to say that our so-called "best players" weren't too tired to play yesterday? how on earth do YOU know that they were our "best" players on the day? What about repercussions for the rest of the season/ next season - don't they matter?

You brought up the bit about them possibly being too tired - so please don't try and turn it around, Frimmers stylee.

I think you'll find the objection was to the "complaining" part rather than the "too tired" part.

[Royal Lady]

arggh. as I've already said, who's to say that our so-called "best players" weren't too tired to play yesterday? how on earth do YOU know that they were our "best" players on the day? What about repercussions for the rest of the season/ next season - don't they matter?

You brought up the bit about them possibly being too tired - so please don't try and turn it around, Frimmers stylee.

I think you'll find the objection was to the "complaining" part rather than the "too tired" part.

Fair enough. But my point still stands that if part of the reason for "resting" some players was because they were "too tired" after playing 2 games in 3 days, after an extended break, then there seriously is something radically wrong with their fitness is there not?

[Adrian's Fool]

arggh. as I've already said, who's to say that our so-called "best players" weren't too tired to play yesterday? how on earth do YOU know that they were our "best" players on the day? What about repercussions for the rest of the season/ next season - don't they matter?

You brought up the bit about them possibly being too tired - so please don't try and turn it around, Frimmers stylee.

I think you'll find the objection was to the "complaining" part rather than the "too tired" part.

Fair enough. But my point still stands that if part of the reason for "resting" some players was because they were "too tired" after playing 2 games in 3 days, after an extended break, then there seriously is something radically wrong with their fitness is there not?

I can't claim to be an expert on players' fitness, but given that every commentator, manager and the like cites "tiredness" as an issue whenever players are asked to play 2 games in 4 days, let alone 3 days, I'd say that there probably is a genuine issue there.

[Wycombe Royal]

arggh. as I've already said, who's to say that our so-called "best players" weren't too tired to play yesterday? how on earth do YOU know that they were our "best" players on the day? What about repercussions for the rest of the season/ next season - don't they matter?

You brought up the bit about them possibly being too tired - so please don't try and turn it around, Frimmers stylee.

I think you'll find the objection was to the "complaining" part rather than the "too tired" part.

Fair enough. But my point still stands that if part of the reason for "resting" some players was because they were "too tired" after playing 2 games in 3 days, after an extended break, then there seriously is something radically wrong with their fitness is there not?

Do you think that someone who has run 10k (which is an estimate of the average distance run by a footballer in a match) could run another 10k 48 hours later in the same time? (and don't forget all the changing of speed, accelerating, more strenuous use of muscles when tackling, etc).

[Royal Lady]

Ivar did.

[Stranded]

arggh. as I've already said, who's to say that our so-called "best players" weren't too tired to play yesterday? how on earth do YOU know that they were our "best" players on the day? What about repercussions for the rest of the season/ next season - don't they matter?

You brought up the bit about them possibly being too tired - so please don't try and turn it around, Frimmers stylee.

I think you'll find the objection was to the "complaining" part rather than the "too tired" part.

Fair enough. But my point still stands that if part of the reason for "resting" some players was because they were "too tired" after playing 2 games in 3 days, after an extended break, then there seriously is something radically wrong with their fitness is there not?

Or just that they were fresher players deserving of a chance who can do the job equally as well as those not played? At the end of it all, we've had 2 games in 3 days - and been on a run of winless fixtures spreading back over 7 games and two months.

If that's not a good enough reason to shake up the first team for one game I don't know what is. And as I've said if we'd converted one of the many chances we created last night, this discussion wouldn't even be going on.

[11.30 from paddington]

For a reality check for all those who were clearly watching a different game from myself and many neutral observers in the media:

Please compare and contrast last night's performance in terms of tactics, attacking moves, players commitment and mangement selection -

with any recent England display.

Thank you.

[Wycombe Royal]

Ivar did.

Some players can - Ivar, Sidwell and Harper are definately 3 that fall into that category, but not all players have the same stamina levels.