Sheff Weds - Back from the game

[Wimb]

We can appeal but it will only be rescinded if the ref made an obvious mistake. That means any contact at all and the pen/red card are warranted. We have to prove there was no contact then it was an obvious error.

That's not really true. For example, a few years ago John Terry rugby tackled a Man City striker (Benjani? Jo?) on the halfway line and had his red card overturned. A few weeks ago, Danny Rose clearly made contact with Edin Dzeko, but had his red card overturned because he made minimal contact with the ball too.

And of course, there doesn't need to be contact for it to be a foul- for example, if I take evasive action to avoid your violent challenge, you're still off.

By the evasive action comment then Pog should have had a penalty during his one-on-one, can't remember the defender but he's sliding right through Pog who somehow managed to avoid the contact but got (fairly) pushed off the ball by the other covering defender.

[andrew1957]

I am a bit surprised by some of the negativity about today. I have not been able to make too many games this year due to family issues and I missed the last two home wins. Previous to that I watched the dire fest that was the Notts Forest game and I have to say that the first half yesterday was the best I have seen us play this season. Yes in the second half the 10 men understandably struggled against a very good Sheffield Wed side - again by far the best away side I have seen at the Madstad this season - a side that will end up in the top 10 by the end of the season, despite being in the relegation zone at Christmas. If we had played like Sheffield did in an away game, nobbers would be lauding it as a great away performance and so please don't say Wednesday were rubbish because they were not.

I was almost in line with the Pearce incident and my initial thought was penalty and straight red. From my view the ref had no choice at all. If indeed Pearce made no contact and the ref was fooled, I have to think it says more about the cheating in modern football than anything else and confirms my view that technology must be introduced for the good of the game.

Player ratings-
McCarthy 5 - a mixed day. A couple of good saves and a howler - but he has won more points than lost us this season, so better to make a mistake in a game we would probably have lost anyway.
Gunter - 8 - excellent throughout
Pearce - If guilty 0 - if not guilty 2 as he was being torn to shreds by Afobe (shame we did not get him on loan again)
Gorkks - 7 - very solid throughout
Obita - 7 - oozes class
Akpan – 5 - not his day today
Williams - 7 - another very good display in an overwhelmed midfield
McCleary - 9 - thought he was an outstanding MOTM. He effectively covered right back and right wing - got forward a lot and was only caught completely out of position a couple of times.
McAnuff- 5 - not at his best today
Pog - 6 - tried to hold the ball up but Sheffield kept him at bay well
ALF - 5 - huffed and puffed but ineffective

Guthrie - 7 - looked good when he came on
HRK/Blackman - neither seemed to do much of note.

So for me not at all downcast by that. Actually quite enjoyed the game until the last quarter - by which time it was obvious we had lost. More positives than negatives for me today.

[PieEater]

That's not really true. For example, a few years ago John Terry rugby tackled a Man City striker (Benjani? Jo?) on the halfway line and had his red card overturned. A few weeks ago, Danny Rose clearly made contact with Edin Dzeko, but had his red card overturned because he made minimal contact with the ball too.

and just to be clear in these situations why they were over turned. Obvious mistake 1 - there was no clear goal scoring opportunity on the half way line (and it wasn't violent conduct). Obvious mistake 2 - the ref didn't notice that Rose made contact with the ball before the player so it's not necessarily a foul.

[RoyalBlue]

Have to disagree, genuinely can't see any foul on Afobi on the FLS highlights.

Can see why adkins was incensed and with Gorkss close by can't see A) how it's last man or B) that Afobi ever had the ball under control. It's in Gorkss possession before he's hit the floor.

You might not be able to see it from their camera angle but he definitely pushed Pearce in the small of the back.

I thought it was a penalty at the time but was annoyed at Pearce for making the challenge because I didn't think it was a clear goalscoring opportunity - not a great angle for the forward, who wasn't in full control of the ball when fouled and with Gorkss closing rapidly. Very poor decision by an exceptionally poor ref (little chance of getting it overturned though due to the inept appeals panel). However, I was far more incensed by his failure to send Maguire off for hitting/kicking Obita (at 10v10 I think we would have got the goal back and gone on to win). Also failing to take the right action over the dreadful challenge on Akpan and his short arsed assistant's missing of the handball in the area mentioned elsewhere.

The worry is we now go away to QPR with probably an untried young centreback and a winger at left back against potentially one of the best attacks in the division. Two loses in a row, possibly drop out of the play offs, and confidence could take a battering.

Suspect that Adkins will stick with Gunter at centre back (I think he's lloked pretty good on the occasions that he has played there) and bring Kelly in at right back.

In typical Reading style I think we will bounce back and get at least a point away to one of the top teams.

Might as well drop his trousers in the canteen and shit on Hector's plate if he does that.

Why?

Hector still very young and relatively inexperienced. Did well in the mickey mouse Scottish league but that doesn't mean he's ready to face QPR.

In contrast Gunter is very experienced at this level, has played at CB at international level and done well for us in that position when he has had to play there.

[Wimb]

Why would you weaken the right back position needlessly though and why would you bring Hector back if you're not going to play him?

the SPL might not be the pinnacle but you've still got some decent forwards up there not to mention a Champions League side in Celtic.

If they're prepared to throw Sean Morrison into Premier League action having never played above League 1 level then Hector is worth a chance after a good loan spell and a couple of sub appearances.

[Ian Royal]

Why would you weaken the right back position needlessly though and why would you bring Hector back if you're not going to play him?

the SPL might not be the pinnacle but you've still got some decent forwards up there not to mention a Champions League side in Celtic.

If they're prepared to throw Sean Morrison into Premier League action having never played above League 1 level then Hector is worth a chance after a good loan spell and a couple of sub appearances.

Precisely. If you get a centre back sent off and don't bring him on, well that can be tactical. If you then plsy a right back at cb in the next game then you've just told him you see no value in him other than to make up the numbers and he should leave if he wants a career.

[bobby1413]

Got in to the ground at 315 - traffic was terrible everywhere.

I thought we played well to be honest. SW looked good and with them against our 10 men it was just too much.

I don't think people should be negative about it, and as for QPR I think we have every chance of getting a result there or a draw.

[andrew1957]

Why would you weaken the right back position needlessly though and why would you bring Hector back if you're not going to play him?

the SPL might not be the pinnacle but you've still got some decent forwards up there not to mention a Champions League side in Celtic.

If they're prepared to throw Sean Morrison into Premier League action having never played above League 1 level then Hector is worth a chance after a good loan spell and a couple of sub appearances.

Agreed we have to play Hector next Sunday. It is a no lose game for us in a way. If we lose (extinguishing even the vaguest hope of automatic promotion as QPR will then be so far ahead) we will still have a good chance of making the play offs. If we lose no one will be greatly surprised, so it is great chance for Hector to cement his place. If he does well Pearce might struggle to get back in the side.

[LoyalRoyalFan]

The traffic situation today was terrible. The game should definitely have been delayed a quarter of an hour or so; its been done for less before.

It was all one way traffic from where I was.

[tmesis]

Just seen the penalty on iPlayer, the angle is absolutely terrible so I can't make a judgement. You can't see whether there's contact, Afobe had the ball under control, or how close Gorkss is.

Didn't see the incident at the time but having watched it on iplayer, it's a clear penalty and a clear red card. A really stupid thing to do so early in the game, the chances of the forward scoring was no greater than 50/50.

It's not an obvious goalscoring opportunity if Afobe was unlikely to score*. Unless you think it was serious foul play, then only one of those statements can be true.

*disregarding Afobe's general inability to score when he was with us

You don't have to be likely to score for it to be a goalscoring opportunity. You just have to be denied the chance of having an opportunity to score. A better wording would be denial of a clear chance of a shot.

Unfortunately it's one of those laws they've brought in that's having a completely unintended impact. It was brought in to stop cynical fouling, yet 95% of those sent off now are defenders who made unintentional minimal contact and the attacker "felt entitled to go down"


You can't really see anything definitive on the replay, but it does look like he was holding on and trying to pull him back with his left arm.

[RoyalBlue]

The traffic situation today was terrible. The game should definitely have been delayed a quarter of an hour or so; its been done for less before.

Right, so there has been absolutely no mention of the appalling weather, localised flooding (yes, even in the Reading area) over the past few days?! And no mention of the traffic problems in the Mad Stad area from at least midday onwards? What's more from the moment Adie and co were on air they were telling people to leave early for the game due to the problems.

Why should the majority who do make allowances for the conditions on the day and get to the stadium on time have to wait for the 'last minute' merchants to get their arses into gear and arrive?

I left London at 12.25pm, drove to Reading, got something to eat and was in the ground not long after 2pm because I had taken the trouble to check weather, traffic etc. and left home early enough to deal with any traffic problems I might have encountered. I suspect most of those who were late lived locally (by comparison) and thought they could just breeze in at their normal time, despite all of the news coverage (including photos of a flooded Reading Gate Retail Park).

Delaying kickoffs just encourages the latecomers to leave things to the last minute next time around too.

[Victor Meldrew]

A disappointing result and the clueless Pearce got caught out-at the time I thought it was a definite penalty but seeing the incident on TV from just the one angle it might not have been so clear cut however Pearce allowed the striker to get ahead of him which happens so much but we aren't often punished at this level.
I thought Adkins would have gone with 3 at the back but it all looked disorganised.

I can't agree with those that say the players gave everything-some players did such as MCCleary, Williams, Pog and Alf but unfortunately there was so often such a huge gap between midfield and the 2 strikers.
With Wednesday mainly having 4 at the back there should have been at least one midfielder joining in but I can only remember Williams doing that a couple of times and Akpan once.

As for Jobi.....at a time when we needed a captain on the pitch his was the first head to go down and it was left to Williams to do everything in midfield.
Obita has done better than expected filling in at left-back but his defensive frailties were there for all to see today.
I didn't like his attitude when things weren''t going his way with too much arm-flapping and pointing at others-I hope the lad is not too cocky to think that he has already made it when in reality he still has a very long way to go.
The regular subs Kanu and our £1million striker had a chance to impress but failed miserably even if they were only on for about 20 minutes-have they ever heard of "busting a gut"?
Adkins said the other week that most of the injured would be back by the end of January or the beginning of February-so where are Bridge and Morrison who are badly needed?

[RoyalBlue]

Why would you weaken the right back position needlessly though and why would you bring Hector back if you're not going to play him?

the SPL might not be the pinnacle but you've still got some decent forwards up there not to mention a Champions League side in Celtic.

If they're prepared to throw Sean Morrison into Premier League action having never played above League 1 level then Hector is worth a chance after a good loan spell and a couple of sub appearances.

Precisely. If you get a centre back sent off and don't bring him on, well that can be tactical. If you then plsy a right back at cb in the next game then you've just told him you see no value in him other than to make up the numbers and he should leave if he wants a career.

When you are talking a player so young and inexperienced that is nonsense. Gunter's prime position is right back but he also has proven ability, at a decent level, at centre back. To argue that selecting him ahead of Hector says that the club and manager see no value in him is plain silly.

A disappointing result and the clueless Pearce got caught out-at the time I thought it was a definite penalty but seeing the incident on TV from just the one angle it might not have been so clear cut however Pearce allowed the striker to get ahead of him which happens so much but we aren't often punished at this level.
I thought Adkins would have gone with 3 at the back but it all looked disorganised.

I can't agree with those that say the players gave everything-some players did such as MCCleary, Williams, Pog and Alf but unfortunately there was so often such a huge gap between midfield and the 2 strikers.
With Wednesday mainly having 4 at the back there should have been at least one midfielder joining in but I can only remember Williams doing that a couple of times and Akpan once.

As for Jobi.....at a time when we needed a captain on the pitch his was the first head to go down and it was left to Williams to do everything in midfield.
Obita has done better than expected filling in at left-back but his defensive frailties were there for all to see today.
I didn't like his attitude when things weren''t going his way with too much arm-flapping and pointing at others-I hope the lad is not too cocky to think that he has already made it when in reality he still has a very long way to go.
The regular subs Kanu and our £1million striker had a chance to impress but failed miserably even if they were only on for about 20 minutes-have they ever heard of "busting a gut"?
Adkins said the other week that most of the injured would be back by the end of January or the beginning of February-so where are Bridge and Morrison who are badly needed?

Adkins has probably learned from Madejski and was bullshitting the fans so that Madejski didn't get the stick he deserved for not delivering on his unqualified assurances of transfer funding.

[sandman]

A disappointing result and the clueless Pearce got caught out-at the time I thought it was a definite penalty but seeing the incident on TV from just the one angle it might not have been so clear cut however Pearce allowed the striker to get ahead of him which happens so much but we aren't often punished at this level.
I thought Adkins would have gone with 3 at the back but it all looked disorganised.

I can't agree with those that say the players gave everything-some players did such as MCCleary, Williams, Pog and Alf but unfortunately there was so often such a huge gap between midfield and the 2 strikers.
With Wednesday mainly having 4 at the back there should have been at least one midfielder joining in but I can only remember Williams doing that a couple of times and Akpan once.

As for Jobi.....at a time when we needed a captain on the pitch his was the first head to go down and it was left to Williams to do everything in midfield.
Obita has done better than expected filling in at left-back but his defensive frailties were there for all to see today.
I didn't like his attitude when things weren''t going his way with too much arm-flapping and pointing at others-I hope the lad is not too cocky to think that he has already made it when in reality he still has a very long way to go.
The regular subs Kanu and our £1million striker had a chance to impress but failed miserably even if they were only on for about 20 minutes-have they ever heard of "busting a gut"?
Adkins said the other week that most of the injured would be back by the end of January or the beginning of February-so where are Bridge and Morrison who are badly needed?

He didn't "allow the striker to get ahead of him" he was fouled by the striker.

[RoyalBlue]

Why would you weaken the right back position needlessly though and why would you bring Hector back if you're not going to play him?

the SPL might not be the pinnacle but you've still got some decent forwards up there not to mention a Champions League side in Celtic.

If they're prepared to throw Sean Morrison into Premier League action having never played above League 1 level then Hector is worth a chance after a good loan spell and a couple of sub appearances.

Is the very capable and highly experienced right back Kelly not fit then?

[Victor Meldrew]

A disappointing result and the clueless Pearce got caught out-at the time I thought it was a definite penalty but seeing the incident on TV from just the one angle it might not have been so clear cut however Pearce allowed the striker to get ahead of him which happens so much but we aren't often punished at this level.
I thought Adkins would have gone with 3 at the back but it all looked disorganised.

I can't agree with those that say the players gave everything-some players did such as MCCleary, Williams, Pog and Alf but unfortunately there was so often such a huge gap between midfield and the 2 strikers.
With Wednesday mainly having 4 at the back there should have been at least one midfielder joining in but I can only remember Williams doing that a couple of times and Akpan once.

As for Jobi.....at a time when we needed a captain on the pitch his was the first head to go down and it was left to Williams to do everything in midfield.
Obita has done better than expected filling in at left-back but his defensive frailties were there for all to see today.
I didn't like his attitude when things weren''t going his way with too much arm-flapping and pointing at others-I hope the lad is not too cocky to think that he has already made it when in reality he still has a very long way to go.
The regular subs Kanu and our £1million striker had a chance to impress but failed miserably even if they were only on for about 20 minutes-have they ever heard of "busting a gut"?
Adkins said the other week that most of the injured would be back by the end of January or the beginning of February-so where are Bridge and Morrison who are badly needed?

He didn't "allow the striker to get ahead of him" he was fouled by the striker.

In your opinion.
It happens too often (even as others said in 8 minutes yesterday) that he loses his bearings that it was no surprise that he fell into the player.
Never mind, he will surely get the move to a top Premier club at the end of the season that he (and only he)thinks should have happened before.

[Wimb]

Match highlights, make your own mind up on the penalty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OIpqVRTBc8

[Esteban]

A disappointing result and the clueless Pearce got caught out-at the time I thought it was a definite penalty but seeing the incident on TV from just the one angle it might not have been so clear cut however Pearce allowed the striker to get ahead of him which happens so much but we aren't often punished at this level.
I thought Adkins would have gone with 3 at the back but it all looked disorganised.

I can't agree with those that say the players gave everything-some players did such as MCCleary, Williams, Pog and Alf but unfortunately there was so often such a huge gap between midfield and the 2 strikers.
With Wednesday mainly having 4 at the back there should have been at least one midfielder joining in but I can only remember Williams doing that a couple of times and Akpan once.

As for Jobi.....at a time when we needed a captain on the pitch his was the first head to go down and it was left to Williams to do everything in midfield.
Obita has done better than expected filling in at left-back but his defensive frailties were there for all to see today.
I didn't like his attitude when things weren''t going his way with too much arm-flapping and pointing at others-I hope the lad is not too cocky to think that he has already made it when in reality he still has a very long way to go.
The regular subs Kanu and our £1million striker had a chance to impress but failed miserably even if they were only on for about 20 minutes-have they ever heard of "busting a gut"?
Adkins said the other week that most of the injured would be back by the end of January or the beginning of February-so where are Bridge and Morrison who are badly needed?

He didn't "allow the striker to get ahead of him" he was fouled by the striker.

There is a clear flaw in Pearce's game, in that he gets too tight to strikers. If the ball is in the air, or the striker can be bullied, then Pearce usually comes out on top. But put him up against a forward with good movement and they've got him on toast. There was a warning a minute or two before the penalty, where their striker got round Pearce too easily, but he passed when he was in behind, instead of shooting. He learnt his lesson though and the next time it happened, he rolled Pearce, then waited for the challenge before going to ground.

Now, I completely agree that in this instance there was a foul on Pearce, but that situation has been coming for a while.

However, people shouldn't get on his back too much, he's generally been good for us this season. That said, with Morrison coming back and Gorkss rolling back the years, he might find that he's the one who makes way.

[Esteban]

Match highlights, make your own mind up on the penalty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OIpqVRTBc8

You can see why the ref gave it. If that were a foul by their CB on Le Fondre, we'd all be screaming for a penalty.

[winchester_royal]

Definite pen imo. Didn't need to get the red card out though.