Coppell Looks For Excuses Already

[papereyes]

I would have liked to have seen us spend a reasonable amount on a player with some Premiership experience in the centre of the park who wouldn't have needed 6 games to get remotely close to 'pace' and then supplemented him with two or three cheaper signings, like Kebe. I cannot see how that would have risked our financial stability and think it would have given us more of a fighting chance of staying up. A few intra-Premiership loans as well might have been an option. Younger players at better clubs, even the Evertons and Villas of the world. I also think it was very naive not to look for a striker when it was clear that we were going to get very little out of Lita that season.

At the very least, had we given Henry or Cox a chance, I would have respected the bravery of the manager in giving these players a chance in what was a tough fight. I preferred what I saw of Cox in the two, three games I saw him playing than the dozens of pretty mediocre Oster performance. Even seeing Oster improve towards the end was irritating - he was merely playing for a contract, wasn't he?

However, given that we knew Sidders was off last January, I think it is a big mistake not to have strengthened then in the centre of the park. I said so at the time and I'll say so again.

[Seal]

I feel those who aired their greviances last season and were dismissed, have every right to be concerned !

I'm sure Royalee, Hoop Blah, Papereyes etc are all strong enough characters to find the idea thatthey were 'dismissed' as quite offensive, they've made their views known loud and clear for a long time and quite rightly so. Are you suggesting that anyone who has different views should allow the vociferous ones to hold sway ? It's up to anyone to argue their corner - and none of thosementioned are ever slow to make their case in the strongest manner possible.

I'm sure they also don't need you to patronise them. My point was simply that the counter argument to our grumblings was "wait and see what happens". Well, we did, and now we're fcuking annoyed!

Oh, and a huge LOL at those people trying to suggest our lack of QUALITY new signings was not the fundemental cause of our relegation. How naive are you prepared to be? Or are you just that desperate to defend the club? Just accept they fcuked it up, and that they may be about to do it again unless they pull their finger out!

It's a lot more naive to think that throwing money at some unnamed players might have saved us. You simply have no idea if it would or not, as I've pointed out Birmingham made some decent signings and it didn;t save them. I'm sure people would have been delightd if we'd spent several million on McFadden in January - but he didn;t save Brum...
It's superficial to say that if we had signed some unspecified player we would have stayed up. It's probably more realistic to suggest that if (for example) we'd rested Doyle, stuck James Henry in the team to give us some proper service from the wing and played Kitson and Lita upfront we may have scored the extra goal or two that would have made the difference.

I'm pretty sure Birmingham got more points than us from January. Therefore going by your logic, that would have made the difference and we would have stayed up.

However, I can see I'm banging my head against a brick wall here. If you seriously think that our lack of transfer activity was not the key factor in our relegation then fine, we'll have to agree to disagree. Your natural stance of defending the club now (and I suspect in previous incarnations on this board) is nevertheless to be admired.

And LOL @ James Henry the great white hope.

[papereyes]

Even if our lack of spending/strengthening in January might not have sent us down (although it was probably a big factor), surely our lack of suitable strengthening over the summer as well was also a factor? It isn't a case of just spending though, is it? Its about strengthening.

Coppell admitted, after the event, that he had doubts the moment the window closed.

[Roger the Rabbit]

The point people are trying to make to you is that we didn't sign the right type of players in January, or the summer for that matter.

Indeed.
But whatever signings might have been made in January there was no guarantee that they would have saved us. My challenge to the original statement was on the basis that it was assumed that there was some kind of combination of signings that would magically have saved us. I think we had the players at the club who could / should have saved us but they failed to deliver when it was actually not unreasonable to expect they would (that for example Kitson / Doyle / Lita might actually score some meaningful goals in the second half of the season)
Fulham made lots of signings but it was actually the return of Bullard that saved them.
Derby made lots of signings and got worse.
Birmingham made several signings of what looked to be quality players and finished below us.
If we had signed (say) Torres, Gerrard and Ferdinand you'd have bet on us to stay up. Anyone at the level we could attract would not, I would suggest, have guaranteed anything.

I'm obviously not disagreeing that in hindsight we needed to be stronger in one and probably two positions right from the start of the season, but that was not the point I was challenging.

[Royal Rother]

Perfect summary from RtR.

[Southbank Old Boy]

The point people are trying to make to you is that we didn't sign the right type of players in January, or the summer for that matter.

Indeed.
But whatever signings might have been made in January there was no guarantee that they would have saved us. My challenge to the original statement was on the basis that it was assumed that there was some kind of combination of signings that would magically have saved us. I think we had the players at the club who could / should have saved us but they failed to deliver when it was actually not unreasonable to expect they would (that for example Kitson / Doyle / Lita might actually score some meaningful goals in the second half of the season)
Fulham made lots of signings but it was actually the return of Bullard that saved them.
Derby made lots of signings and got worse.
Birmingham made several signings of what looked to be quality players and finished below us.
If we had signed (say) Torres, Gerrard and Ferdinand you'd have bet on us to stay up. Anyone at the level we could attract would not, I would suggest, have guaranteed anything.

I'm obviously not disagreeing that in hindsight we needed to be stronger in one and probably two positions right from the start of the season, but that was not the point I was challenging.

If it's not broke don't fix it

If it's broke???? Still don't fix it?

Signing players wouldn't have guaranteed an improvement in our futunes or survival but then I don't think even Royalee is claiming that it would.

What he has said is that not addressing our weaknesses by bringing in new personel is why we went done. Considering we had no other viable alternatives to the players that had already got us into the position we were in I think he's right.

[papereyes]

The main two points of contention for me are ...

1)

I think we had the players at the club who could / should have saved us but they failed to deliver when it was actually not unreasonable to expect they would (that for example Kitson / Doyle / Lita might actually score some meaningful goals in the second half of the season)

I think some players were clearly not performing. Coupled with a need

to be stronger in one and probably two positions right from the start of the season

I think it was clear in Jan that, although we were doing OK around January, we could do with players to strengthen those one or two key areas of the squad and also to improve on areas where we were misfiring despite having some level of ability in that position in the squad.

2)

If we had signed (say) Torres, Gerrard and Ferdinand you'd have bet on us to stay up. Anyone at the level we could attract would not, I would suggest, have guaranteed anything.

You take it to an extreme, but I think its more than fair to say that certain players would have given us more of a guarantee than others.

It was the same in the summer - we needed to strengthen, we didn't (and it doesn't really matter whose fault - manager, scouts, players, chairman - it was, does it?) and we suffered for it.

Is the answer that we genuinely couldn't compete? I don't think so. Is it that Coppell didn't think the risk was worthwhile? We lost anyway and are, apparently, having to cut our cloth accordingly.

New season, new chances to get it right. Actually looking forwards to it.

[Roger the Rabbit]

Papereyes,
Possibly it's worrying for us both but I think we've come to a meeting of minds there !

The bit I agree with most is your final bit - however we got here the new season is a new challenge and that is always exciting. I have no doubt the new season will also generate plenty of debate, woul dbe a sad thing if it didn't.

[Roger the Rabbit]

However, I can see I'm banging my head against a brick wall here. If you seriously think that our lack of transfer activity was not the key factor in our relegation then fine, we'll have to agree to disagree. Your natural stance of defending the club now (and I suspect in previous incarnations on this board) is nevertheless to be admired.

.

Funnily enough I haven;t said our lack of transfer activity was not relevant, my arguement is that to claim it was SOLELY due to not buying any one in January is wrong. If you chose to diasgree then at least disagree with what was said.

Interesting that you think disagreeing with your view means someone is 'defending the club'. I don't agree with you, but I've stated where I think the club went wrong, not sure why that involves 'defending' anything.

I'd stop banging yourhead against that brick wall, it's having a serioulsy bad effect on your thought processes....

[papereyes]

But by not strengthening when we've had the chance, we didn't do ourselves any favours - and that includes that January window.

I actually think we missed a real trick in the first transfer window - attack the market, get Marek (or similar) in, get a young tough Championship player to replace Sidwell, look at short term options up front and look at wingers.

Then they have 6 months where we aren't struggling to bed into the team and the teams' ethos.

[brendywendy]

If my memory serves me correctly, around January last year people like myself, Royalee and others criticised our lack of transfer activity, and highlighted a concern that our league position was misleading, citing that if we didn't invest we would be in serious trouble.

We were told to stop being negative and to "judge things at the end of the season."

I for one took this advice, continued to support the team, but after miminal transfer activity...we went down.

Now we are in another transfer window, and I feel those who aired their greviances last season and were dismissed, have every right to be concerned at a situation that looks remarkably similar to that of last summer and January 2008, particularly in terms of the hollow rhetoric coming out of the club.

Oh, and a huge LOL at those people trying to suggest our lack of QUALITY new signings was not the fundemental cause of our relegation. How naive are you prepared to be? Or are you just that desperate to defend the club? Just accept they fcuked it up, and that they may be about to do it again unless they pull their finger out!

lol at some feeling that their opinions had been dismissed
by people disagreeing with them

[Seal]

If my memory serves me correctly, around January last year people like myself, Royalee and others criticised our lack of transfer activity, and highlighted a concern that our league position was misleading, citing that if we didn't invest we would be in serious trouble.

We were told to stop being negative and to "judge things at the end of the season."

I for one took this advice, continued to support the team, but after miminal transfer activity...we went down.

Now we are in another transfer window, and I feel those who aired their greviances last season and were dismissed, have every right to be concerned at a situation that looks remarkably similar to that of last summer and January 2008, particularly in terms of the hollow rhetoric coming out of the club.

Oh, and a huge LOL at those people trying to suggest our lack of QUALITY new signings was not the fundemental cause of our relegation. How naive are you prepared to be? Or are you just that desperate to defend the club? Just accept they fcuked it up, and that they may be about to do it again unless they pull their finger out!

lol at some feeling that their opinions had been dismissed
by people disagreeing with them

LOL @ your optimism during the season.

[Roger the Rabbit]

But by not strengthening when we've had the chance, we didn't do ourselves any favours - and that includes that January window.

I actually think we missed a real trick in the first transfer window - attack the market, get Marek (or similar) in, get a young tough Championship player to replace Sidwell, look at short term options up front and look at wingers.

Then they have 6 months where we aren't struggling to bed into the team and the teams' ethos.

Again I'd agree !
It's always going to be a huge gamble to try and bring significant new players into a team in January, the time to do the rebuilding was the summer and having not done that I really don't think that major spending in January would have been anything other than a rather desperate gamble. It might have come off, bit like I might win the lottery !!

[Southbank Old Boy]

But by not strengthening when we've had the chance, we didn't do ourselves any favours - and that includes that January window.

I actually think we missed a real trick in the first transfer window - attack the market, get Marek (or similar) in, get a young tough Championship player to replace Sidwell, look at short term options up front and look at wingers.

Then they have 6 months where we aren't struggling to bed into the team and the teams' ethos.

Again I'd agree !
It's always going to be a huge gamble to try and bring significant new players into a team in January, the time to do the rebuilding was the summer and having not done that I really don't think that major spending in January would have been anything other than a rather desperate gamble. It might have come off, bit like I might win the lottery !!

I think that not spending on the right areas on the team was a bigger gamble myself.

Your earlier point about what people bring up as a reason for our downfall being SOLEY to blame, I think you're just being a bit too picky there, unless you really want all opinions caveated with a disclaimer that the point being addressed is not the only thing in the universe likely to have some effect on events at RFC. Just strikes me as being a little daft taking such comments to the extreme.

[Royal Rother]

lol at some feeling that their opinions had been dismissed
by people disagreeing with them

LOL @ your optimism during the season.

Oh dear oh dear. How can that bring about a LOL?


That's what pisses me off most about all this. I can't think of a worse reason to gloat.

[g]

Reading FC only acts like they are active when the window is shut... when the window is open... nothing because reality is they have no ambition.

[FiNeRaIn]

Reading FC only acts like they are active when the window is shut... when the window is open... nothing because reality is they have no ambition.

Best comment I have read for the last month or so.

I saw coppell in town earlier, I asked if there was any deals in the pipeline and he was very surprised I had asked. He told me " we are happy with what we've got", but he expects to lose 1/2 over the coming weeks. He hinted that shorey will be moving on and we will be playing rosenior at left back with murty at right back next season. Kitson going to fulham is rubbish, dave is fully committed to the club and his wife has recently applied for a customer service position at tescos in reading, clearly making long term plans for the couple to be around the club for a few years yet. No interest shown in doyle thus far either.

[Roger the Rabbit]

his wife has recently applied for a customer service position at tescos in reading, clearly making long term plans for the couple to be around the club for a few years yet.

Not sure which to LOL !

The thought that Kitson's missus is hoping to serve on the tills down Napier Rd or that being a checkout girl represents a long term plan !!

[Fezza]

18 months after Little was injured and Reading are still yet to sign a tried and tested right winger
>
Our lack of quality wing play last year led to us trying to create something from the middle of the park with players that, until Mateyovski, weren't capable of that
>
Led to our strikers being unable to score due to defenders being wise to one dimensional football
>
RELEGATION

Don't know about anyone else but for me the blame squarely lies with the manager and NH who failed to do their jobs last season and who still are to fill the right side of midfield!

If you snooze you lose and Coppell is hardly an insomniac

[Stranded]

Reading FC only acts like they are active when the window is shut... when the window is open... nothing because reality is they have no ambition.

Best comment I have read for the last month or so.

I saw coppell in town earlier, I asked if there was any deals in the pipeline and he was very surprised I had asked. He told me " we are happy with what we've got", but he expects to lose 1/2 over the coming weeks. He hinted that shorey will be moving on and we will be playing rosenior at left back with murty at right back next season. Kitson going to fulham is rubbish, dave is fully committed to the club and his wife has recently applied for a customer service position at tescos in reading, clearly making long term plans for the couple to be around the club for a few years yet. No interest shown in doyle thus far either.

Sounds like you had a decent afternoon nap.