#SellBeforeWeDai Action/Inaction Group

[Reading4eva]

Most Oxford fans are giving their support to us to get out of this situation.

This little tosspot is on a warpath

https://x.com/hraarmstrong?t=XcdAyHdAJW ... vayQA&s=09

[Uke]

Seems Dai's world is imploding around him.

Unfortunately his world is where RFC reside

[Reading4eva]

Anyone who knows financing, can they give a little input into what the figures here mean.

Believe this is the company who own the stadium (and training ground?)

If I'm right in thinking it's in £140m worth of debt but I might be wrong...

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

[genome]

Must say I am pleasantly surprised with the number of opposition fans coming out in support yesterday and this morning. It certainly feels there are more eyes on the club’s situation today than there were, which can only be a good thing.

[NathStPaul]

Must say I am pleasantly surprised with the number of opposition fans coming out in support yesterday and this morning. It certainly feels there are more eyes on the club’s situation today than there were, which can only be a good thing.

The mainstream press coverage has ramped up significantly this morning. I think that proves the pitch invasion was worth it. The more eyes drawn to the clubs plight the better.

[RoyalBlue]

New Post. Haven't a clue what this means but appears that today has highlighted a lot more about Dai that no one knows

https://twitter.com/mikeygow/status/174 ... 53065?s=19

Don't know if this man is making up bollocks or if it's got some substance to it all

Squares with SBWD's statement on whistle blowers; he is asset stripping the club to pay debts elsewhere. Of course, he could just have accepted the money on offer from Genevra - a business is always worth more than the sum of its parts.

Perhaps an accountant can enlighten us but I'm not sure it's legal to take money out of the business in that manner whilst other creditors are owed money? Maybe he's able to get around it by recalling any loans he may have made?

I suspect he is more likely to be selling assets in order to reduce what he is having to meet in terms of day to day running costs of the club.

[biff]

As posted in the other group, how about some pointed Guerilla Projection, London residence, Reading Gaol etc of Dai's ugly mug on that wanted poster? No need for permits etc as its guerilla, can hit quite a few sites in an evening for PR shots.

[Lower West]

Anyone who knows financing, can they give a little input into what the figures here mean.

Believe this is the company who own the stadium (and training ground?)

If I'm right in thinking it's in £140m worth of debt but I might be wrong...

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

The ultimate Holding company is in Hong Kong. As with all Chinese companies though this is via a company based in the Cayman Islands. The June 2022 accounts clearly state that all the assets are being used as security for loans. The Bearwood training facility having a charge on it from the Bank of Bangkok.

Shortly the June 2023 accounts will have to be filed. Likely to show a far worse financial position.

Suspect that any sale of the club is being made more complex by what's invisible to the eye. Dai's own personal money can be written off. Other creditors whose loans are secured to the company's assets will either require repayment or the new owners taking on the debt. Which potentially makes the club worthless as it stands, Investors might as well wait and buy the club from administrators . Than pay Dai money and be saddled with a load of debt. While stll requiring the capital to invest.

Might as well buy a "Wrexham" or "Gillingham". i.e. with far less debt. Then use the money at hand to take the club forward.

[Sutekh]

lol at you.

Hi seb, how’s things?

Pretty good, generally.

As I said earlier on in this thread, however, despite my general trolly attitude and my pretend disdain for the club and the fans, I am really quite upset by all the developments of late.

In terms of our approach, we appear to have the suffragette stuff in the bag, but I can’t see anyone doing the suffragist side of things. We need both the anger and protest, alongside the comms, lobbying and press. The comms are improving but for months it looked all very amateur.

In reality, with the law as it stands, there is little to be achieved. Unless we have governmental intervention (alongside an overhaul of football ownership rules generally), the club is just an asset owned by a foreign investor, who appears not to be engaging. If he wants to tank the value of his assets by letting the club die, that is currently within his power. And I hate it.

None of this is the fault of the fans, players or staff. Fans are understandably showing anger in the only way we have the power to achieve. Staff and players are being incredibly, professionally restrained - in their position I am not sure I could show the same coolness and decorum. It’s all a bit miserable.

But, to get back on point - you owe Ian an apology. He was simply pointing out the reality of police powers. He’s was absolutely correct in his analysis. You accused him of bad faith - which was clearly not the case. Perhaps act with more generosity if spirit in future.

Anyone aiming to chain themselves to the stadium?

[Reading4eva]

Anyone who knows financing, can they give a little input into what the figures here mean.

Believe this is the company who own the stadium (and training ground?)

If I'm right in thinking it's in £140m worth of debt but I might be wrong...

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

The ultimate Holding company is in Hong Kong. As with all Chinese companies though this is via a company based in the Cayman Islands. The June 2022 accounts clearly state that all the assets are being used as security for loans. The Bearwood training facility having a charge on it from the Bank of Bangkok.

Shortly the June 2023 accounts will have to be filed. Likely to show a far worse financial position.

Suspect that any sale of the club is being made more complex by what's invisible to the eye. Dai's own personal money can be written off. Other creditors whose loans are secured to the company's assets will either require repayment or the new owners taking on the debt. Which potentially makes the club worthless as it stands, Investors might as well wait and buy the club from administrators . Than pay Dai money and be saddled with a load of debt. While stll requiring the capital to invest.

Might as well buy a "Wrexham" or "Gillingham". i.e. with far less debt. Then use the money at hand to take the club forward.

It's a grim picture and I am sure your spot on its going to be worse. Question is if they disqualify Dai (and Pang as well hopefully) which will, no doubt force administration will this be a standard point deduction as it will be forced by the EFL.

It's a unique situation. When I moved to Bournemouth in 2008, the club were absolutely potless. They had to rely on donations from their CEO to stop liquidation. Thing is, Dai has access to money. Problem is negligence on his part, asset stripping which includes the stadium and training ground to his own companies, list goes on...

I wonder if the EFL are sweating as they put this club in the situation. Hopefully things will begin to move faster but I have to agree based on what you've said, Admin might be relegation but it might also be the best way out of this and enable the club to survive.

[Reading4eva]

Hi seb, how’s things?

Pretty good, generally.

As I said earlier on in this thread, however, despite my general trolly attitude and my pretend disdain for the club and the fans, I am really quite upset by all the developments of late.

In terms of our approach, we appear to have the suffragette stuff in the bag, but I can’t see anyone doing the suffragist side of things. We need both the anger and protest, alongside the comms, lobbying and press. The comms are improving but for months it looked all very amateur.

In reality, with the law as it stands, there is little to be achieved. Unless we have governmental intervention (alongside an overhaul of football ownership rules generally), the club is just an asset owned by a foreign investor, who appears not to be engaging. If he wants to tank the value of his assets by letting the club die, that is currently within his power. And I hate it.

None of this is the fault of the fans, players or staff. Fans are understandably showing anger in the only way we have the power to achieve. Staff and players are being incredibly, professionally restrained - in their position I am not sure I could show the same coolness and decorum. It’s all a bit miserable.

But, to get back on point - you owe Ian an apology. He was simply pointing out the reality of police powers. He’s was absolutely correct in his analysis. You accused him of bad faith - which was clearly not the case. Perhaps act with more generosity if spirit in future.

Anyone aiming to chain themselves to the stadium?

I'd chain myself to the front door of a room that contains Dai. He's only getting out when he sells the club. Problem is, no one knows where the bastard is

[Sutekh]

Anyone who knows financing, can they give a little input into what the figures here mean.

Believe this is the company who own the stadium (and training ground?)

If I'm right in thinking it's in £140m worth of debt but I might be wrong...

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

The ultimate Holding company is in Hong Kong. As with all Chinese companies though this is via a company based in the Cayman Islands. The June 2022 accounts clearly state that all the assets are being used as security for loans. The Bearwood training facility having a charge on it from the Bank of Bangkok.

Shortly the June 2023 accounts will have to be filed. Likely to show a far worse financial position.

Suspect that any sale of the club is being made more complex by what's invisible to the eye. Dai's own personal money can be written off. Other creditors whose loans are secured to the company's assets will either require repayment or the new owners taking on the debt. Which potentially makes the club worthless as it stands, Investors might as well wait and buy the club from administrators . Than pay Dai money and be saddled with a load of debt. While stll requiring the capital to invest.

Might as well buy a "Wrexham" or "Gillingham". i.e. with far less debt. Then use the money at hand to take the club forward.

There really needs to be something put into football ownership that prevents owners using club "assets" to secure loans unless the loans secured are secured for the "benefit" of the club concerned. Is that the case here or has this idiot just used them for the benefit of other unrelated business and investment purposes?

[Sebastian the Red]

Pretty good, generally.

As I said earlier on in this thread, however, despite my general trolly attitude and my pretend disdain for the club and the fans, I am really quite upset by all the developments of late.

In terms of our approach, we appear to have the suffragette stuff in the bag, but I can’t see anyone doing the suffragist side of things. We need both the anger and protest, alongside the comms, lobbying and press. The comms are improving but for months it looked all very amateur.

In reality, with the law as it stands, there is little to be achieved. Unless we have governmental intervention (alongside an overhaul of football ownership rules generally), the club is just an asset owned by a foreign investor, who appears not to be engaging. If he wants to tank the value of his assets by letting the club die, that is currently within his power. And I hate it.

None of this is the fault of the fans, players or staff. Fans are understandably showing anger in the only way we have the power to achieve. Staff and players are being incredibly, professionally restrained - in their position I am not sure I could show the same coolness and decorum. It’s all a bit miserable.

But, to get back on point - you owe Ian an apology. He was simply pointing out the reality of police powers. He’s was absolutely correct in his analysis. You accused him of bad faith - which was clearly not the case. Perhaps act with more generosity if spirit in future.

This is an enormously eloquent explanation of where we are.

Please dont blow smoke up his Woking arse

[RoyalBlue]

So I just spoke to my m8 and said wtf dude you just made me look a right Cnut on hobnob wtf happened to the game will not be abandoned. Apparently we couldn’t get enough police at the game to clear the pitch after it emerged we haven’t paid TVP and they are only providing minimum numbers that meet the safety guidelines and nothing more

That would be the six plods that just stood there and did nothing despite the very large screen in the corner pointing out that entering the pitch was against the law, you know the law you are paid to uphold.

What do you think six PCs are going to achieve trying to stop and arrest over 1000 people?

Nothing but the risk of an escalating situation, violence and the safety of themselves and others.

They stood no chance, as the club clearly only paid for the minimum level of policing that they were required to. In 'wealthier times' we would probably have seen police dogs and even horses involved.

[Snowflake Royal]

That would be the six plods that just stood there and did nothing despite the very large screen in the corner pointing out that entering the pitch was against the law, you know the law you are paid to uphold.

What do you think six PCs are going to achieve trying to stop and arrest over 1000 people?

Nothing but the risk of an escalating situation, violence and the safety of themselves and others.

They stood no chance, as the club clearly only paid for the minimum level of policing that they were required to. In 'wealthier times' we would probably have seen police dogs and even horses involved.

Pretty risky escalation for 1000 people posing no danger. Its not the 70s or 80s.

[Lower West]

Anyone who knows financing, can they give a little input into what the figures here mean.

Believe this is the company who own the stadium (and training ground?)

If I'm right in thinking it's in £140m worth of debt but I might be wrong...

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

The ultimate Holding company is in Hong Kong. As with all Chinese companies though this is via a company based in the Cayman Islands. The June 2022 accounts clearly state that all the assets are being used as security for loans. The Bearwood training facility having a charge on it from the Bank of Bangkok.

Shortly the June 2023 accounts will have to be filed. Likely to show a far worse financial position.

Suspect that any sale of the club is being made more complex by what's invisible to the eye. Dai's own personal money can be written off. Other creditors whose loans are secured to the company's assets will either require repayment or the new owners taking on the debt. Which potentially makes the club worthless as it stands, Investors might as well wait and buy the club from administrators . Than pay Dai money and be saddled with a load of debt. While stll requiring the capital to invest.

Might as well buy a "Wrexham" or "Gillingham". i.e. with far less debt. Then use the money at hand to take the club forward.

There really needs to be something put into football ownership that prevents owners using club "assets" to secure loans unless the loans secured are secured for the "benefit" of the club concerned. Is that the case here or has this idiot just used them for the benefit of other unrelated business and investment purposes?

Bottom line is football is just like any other business. Bearwood most likely would have never been built or the land even bought without external finance. SJM didn't build the club purely on cash from his pocket.

[Clyde1998]

What do you think six PCs are going to achieve trying to stop and arrest over 1000 people?

Nothing but the risk of an escalating situation, violence and the safety of themselves and others.

They stood no chance, as the club clearly only paid for the minimum level of policing that they were required to. In 'wealthier times' we would probably have seen police dogs and even horses involved.

Pretty risky escalation for 1000 people posing no danger. Its not the 70s or 80s.

Indeed. Even if the police attempted to arrest anyone once there were only about 100 on the pitch, they risked turning a peaceful situation into a violent one.

[Lower West]

Anyone who knows financing, can they give a little input into what the figures here mean.

Believe this is the company who own the stadium (and training ground?)

If I'm right in thinking it's in £140m worth of debt but I might be wrong...

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

The ultimate Holding company is in Hong Kong. As with all Chinese companies though this is via a company based in the Cayman Islands. The June 2022 accounts clearly state that all the assets are being used as security for loans. The Bearwood training facility having a charge on it from the Bank of Bangkok.

Shortly the June 2023 accounts will have to be filed. Likely to show a far worse financial position.

Suspect that any sale of the club is being made more complex by what's invisible to the eye. Dai's own personal money can be written off. Other creditors whose loans are secured to the company's assets will either require repayment or the new owners taking on the debt. Which potentially makes the club worthless as it stands, Investors might as well wait and buy the club from administrators . Than pay Dai money and be saddled with a load of debt. While stll requiring the capital to invest.

Might as well buy a "Wrexham" or "Gillingham". i.e. with far less debt. Then use the money at hand to take the club forward.

It's a grim picture and I am sure your spot on its going to be worse. Question is if they disqualify Dai (and Pang as well hopefully) which will, no doubt force administration will this be a standard point deduction as it will be forced by the EFL.

It's a unique situation. When I moved to Bournemouth in 2008, the club were absolutely potless. They had to rely on donations from their CEO to stop liquidation. Thing is, Dai has access to money. Problem is negligence on his part, asset stripping which includes the stadium and training ground to his own companies, list goes on...

I wonder if the EFL are sweating as they put this club in the situation. Hopefully things will begin to move faster but I have to agree based on what you've said, Admin might be relegation but it might also be the best way out of this and enable the club to survive.

Not asset stripping. The sales were undetaken to generate cash for the football club. Read the financial sustainability rules then work out to circumnavigate them. That's the game many clubs have played.

EFL will use Reading as a warning to others as how not to run a football club and what the consequences are. Publicity is unlikely to garner any sympathy wider afield. Our problems are self inflicted.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Not sure the EFL want us to go bust as an example. They, along with the PL and FA, are trying to argue that their governance is strong and the upcoming regulator should be a light touch. A club going bust under the current regime is one of the worst things that could happen in terms of undermining their argument.

[Sutekh]

Not sure the EFL want us to go bust as an example. They, along with the PL and FA, are trying to argue that their governance is strong and the upcoming regulator should be a light touch. A club going bust under the current regime is one of the worst things that could happen in terms of undermining their argument.

Already happened twice at Bury and Macclesfield so wouldn't exactly say their arguments are strong, then there are all the clubs currently sailing very close to the wind with 3 already expecting sanctions to be applied in the PL alone. A lot of the problems are down to the distribution of TV monies and inane ffp rules that serve to only punish clubs far in the future rather than roughly around the time of any offences. Something strong with plenty of teeth also needs to be implemented in the first place to finally stop the dog being wagged by the tail.