In praise of Shane Long...

[ZacNaloen]

nah

[Snowball]

Never score 20?

Here is one for you.

Not "I think". Ian Royal was cast-iron certain he would never ever..


Ho-Hum

23rd Jan 2009

RIght, now I've got rid of the meaningless pointless statistical drivel, I can get on with responding.

Long has started so few games, because he has been diabolical in pretty much every single one. He has a much much better record as a sub. But not exactly great. His sub appearances are always going to inflate his quality, because he is quick and comes on against tiring defences. Quite often defences who have already lost the game.

Long will NEVER, EVER score 20 goals in a season at this level.

There are two main reasons for this, one which causes the second. Those are:

1) He isn't even close to good enough
2) Because of 1) He'll never start enough games to manage it.

Kitson didn't score 20 at this level, Doyle hasn't (yet) and both of them are 10 times the player Long is, and probably ever will be.

Doyle managed 18. Kitson had a 22, Ian.

Long is on 22 with 8 games to go.

[ZacNaloen]

I thought it was Ian as well

[brendywendy]

lol at ian.

[Ian Royal]

I thought it was Ian as well

I did indeed, though I was far from the only one. And well done to Shane, as I have said several times, for proving me wrong. Although I never said he wasn't a player who had great potential, I just thought his lack of first team games in his first three seasons had prevented him from developing into the player he could have been. Fair play, he's come on leaps and bounds this season and done the business. We'll see if it's a flash in the pan in the next couple of seasons.

[Snowball]

Although I never said he wasn't a player who had great potential, I just thought his lack of first team games in his first three seasons had prevented him from developing into the player he could have been. Fair play, he's come on leaps and bounds this season and done the business. We'll see if it's a flash in the pan in the next couple of seasons.

Ian Royal Posting to Show he knows Shane's Great Potential...



Great Potential?

22 Jan 2009 14:22

Statistics are not the be all and end all of football. There is much much more to it than that.

Long has been dire almost every time he has started. He has a poor first touch and poor decision making. His record is not really in the least bit impressive, he just doesn't score enough.

Yes he's never had a decent run in the side, but that's because every time Coppell has tried to give him one he's been too awful to leave in long enough.

Add to that his attitude is extremely suspect. He gets very petulent when things aren't going his way (most the time) and he reacts badly to decisions not going in his favour and is quite rash.


I think we should get rid.

Ian extolling Long's Potential...

22-Jan-2009

Doyle has already acheived more than Long ever will. Regardless of whatever statistics you want to dredge up to manipulate and support your view,
he will NEVER be good enough to start regularly for a decent Reading side (mid tier 2 or higher).

He could have been. But he didn't get the first team games he needed. Had he gone on loan to league 1 and played a significant number of games as a starter, even as late as last year, then he had a chance to go places. Now? No chance.

23-Jan-2009 (THE Post)

Long has started so few games, because he has been diabolical in pretty much every single one. He has a much much better record as a sub. But not exactly great. His sub appearances are always going to inflate his quality, because he is quick and comes on against tiring defences. Quite often defences who have already lost the game.

Long will NEVER, EVER score 20 goals in a season at this level. There are two main reasons for this, one which causes the second. Those are:

1) He isn't even close to good enough
2) Because of 1) He'll never start enough games to manage it.

23 Jan 2009

In one way I would like to see Long start for the rest of the season, just so we can see Snowball is so utterly wrong in his assessment of Long. Unfortunately that would mean we'd probably fail to make the Play offs, so I guess it's for the best he won't.

24 Jan 2009

Lita and Hunt would make reasonably acceptable subs and back up squad players. Providing we're doing reasonably well, Lita is quite likely to perform in the prem due to big gameitis.

Long in the prem? It's just doesn't bare thinking about.
I'd agree with you. And I'd be shifting Long to make room for him.

5th Feb 2009

Long hasn't really showed many indicators he can do any better, whereas Lita HAS done considerably better,
and could quite easily return to that form, without the need for a run of 20 games to learn how to make decisions and control the ball.

Lita, even at some of his shittest, like against Newcastle at home last year, caused a defence a problems and worked openings. He may start falling over a lot and ambling a round. But for me, importantly he doesn't get petulant ON THE PITCH.

Whereas you see it in Long all the time. When refs decisions aren't going his way, his head goes down, he sulks. He mimes throwing the ball in an opposition player's face (at least once). He goes into challenges rashly.

A useful sub at this level, but he doesn't have what it takes to make it as a regular or even a Prem reserve IMO.

He should leave in the summer, he had his chance to show what he had at the start of the season and he was so poor he got only a couple of games. Since he's not done a great deal better.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Tip top murking there for Ian.

FWIW it seems we almost all got it wrong, most here at some time thought that Long would not make it, however the people that mattered believed in him, knew he had time on his side, and now that bit of promise /potential that was seen all those years ago is paying off.

Shane Long has made the step up, and has done it the hard way, he has been a bit part player for a good few seasons, when people said loan him out, but it appears to me that he has learned more from being at our set up, than by going to play at a a lower level.

It is almost a keepers way, sitback, work hard, bide your time and when the time comes grab it by the balls and take it. Football is no longer a team game for 11 players, it is a squad game for at least 18 players, Long IMHO is the first to come through for us in a squad rather than team way.

[ZacNaloen]

I suppose he'll just say they were opinions rather than statements with any sort of methodology behind them

[Snowball]

Tip top murking there for Ian.

FWIW it seems we almost all got it wrong, most here at some time thought that Long would not make it, however the people that mattered believed in him, knew he had time on his side, and now that bit of promise /potential that was seen all those years ago is paying off.

And those who were simply wrong then, and put their hands up, now, kudos.

I just object to the little "extra" by IR, where he attempts to make out he saw potential.

[Snowball]

I suppose he'll just say they were opinions rather than statements with any sort of methodology behind them

Yeah, BOLD CAP opinions

[Ian Royal]

Good quoting there.

I did always say however, that Long had great potential and could have been a top player if he'd gone out on loan in his first three seasons. After that didn't happen I thought that he would never realise that potential, certainly without moving on. Clearly I was wrong. And I've repeatedly put my hands up, although I'm sure my normal detractors will claim me acknowledging when I'm wrong and changing my opinion is something I never ever do.

It may not have been in every single post but it was there from the first season back in the chumpionship. I'm not going to waste my time searching through 243 pages of threads many of which were 70 odd pages long to prove it though.

I slated Long when he was poor, which he was. I happily admit I went overboard and kept slating him, being blinded to his emerging quality when he did get better through frustration and his previous shitness. But the situation, or evidence, has changed now, and therefore so has my opinion.

[Ian Royal]

I'd also say that snowball's propaganda campaigns on behalf of Long were counter productive in that they polarised opinion even more and caused people who weren't keen on him to only become more vehement in their criticism.

And as I posted on the other thread:

I'm enjoying the way I'm being singled out as part of some sort of snowball vendetta.

Just to share the lols around my fellow "got it wrong in the long-runers":

The bloke is f*cking useless. A basic, average striker should be knocking in a goal every 3 games at the least yet our "main" striker has one. From the penalty spot.

He's like a poor man's Emile Hesky.

Many years ago Schards posted that he was and would remain woeful, I may not have seen him live that much, but never has he looked any real use to me either, time to move on Shane, sorry as you are a nice guy.

Long has started just about every game this season and has managed to score one measly bloody penalty. You'd think even the most incompetent striker would have managed to divert the ball into the net at least once from open play this season off his arse or something. Long's performance at Bristol was typical; hard work, zero quality on the ball and an abject failure to get any shots away. Not good enough...
He doesn't have the intelligence to get into goalscoring positions, and frankly if he didn't 'work hard' (literally the bare minimum I'd expect from any professional footballer) he wouldn't have anything to his game whatsoever.

We don't have anyone worse either, their all very average Championship players who might have the odd good game but won't do enough over a sustained period to carry the burden of being our first choice strike force.

All of our strikers are shite. Long in particular.

Piss off Long and take Madejski, McDermott and Church's shit finishing with you.

He's useless- plain and simple.

Shane isn't a good player imo. He's had 4 years to prove himself and he hasn't.

Nice lad. Completely out of his depth.

Sorry chaps and chapess, but if I'm going down I'm taking you lot with me.

[facaldaqui]

I'd also say that snowball's propaganda campaigns on behalf of Long were counter productive in that they polarised opinion even more and caused people who weren't keen on him to only become more vehement in their criticism.

And as I posted on the other thread:

I'm enjoying the way I'm being singled out as part of some sort of snowball vendetta.

Just to share the lols around my fellow "got it wrong in the long-runers":

The bloke is f*cking useless. A basic, average striker should be knocking in a goal every 3 games at the least yet our "main" striker has one. From the penalty spot.

He's like a poor man's Emile Hesky.

Many years ago Schards posted that he was and would remain woeful, I may not have seen him live that much, but never has he looked any real use to me either, time to move on Shane, sorry as you are a nice guy.

Long has started just about every game this season and has managed to score one measly bloody penalty. You'd think even the most incompetent striker would have managed to divert the ball into the net at least once from open play this season off his arse or something. Long's performance at Bristol was typical; hard work, zero quality on the ball and an abject failure to get any shots away. Not good enough...
He doesn't have the intelligence to get into goalscoring positions, and frankly if he didn't 'work hard' (literally the bare minimum I'd expect from any professional footballer) he wouldn't have anything to his game whatsoever.

We don't have anyone worse either, their all very average Championship players who might have the odd good game but won't do enough over a sustained period to carry the burden of being our first choice strike force.

All of our strikers are shite. Long in particular.

Piss off Long and take Madejski, McDermott and Church's shit finishing with you.

He's useless- plain and simple.

Shane isn't a good player imo. He's had 4 years to prove himself and he hasn't.

Nice lad. Completely out of his depth.

Sorry chaps and chapess, but if I'm going down I'm taking you lot with me.

The difference is that most of Shane's previous critics have moved on and stopped arguing with Snowball now. Shane has come good, and that's all anyone wanted. It doesn't mean to say, however, that his long spell of hardly scoring in open play is less infuriating in retrospect.

I give you credit for always believing in Church. I'm doubtful, but if he comes good I'll be only too pleased to be proved wrong, as I'm sure will the other Church doubters. You may yet have your day.

[Royal Rother]

This is great stuff. I'm just glad I never got officially bored either of, or indeed with, Shane Long.

In fact I probably said he would one day become the best player ever to play for the club.

[southstand67]

Surely any vitriol aimed at individual players has to be frustration does it not? Long has come into his own now- I only go to around 5-6 matches a season due to other commitments, but if I were a paying season ticket holder going week in week out, I would want results straight away.

Now that Shane Long has knocked a few in is there any point in having a go at people who were frustrated by his below par performances?

[Snowball]

Surely any vitriol aimed at individual players has to be frustration does it not? Long has come into his own now- I only go to around 5-6 matches a season due to other commitments, but if I were a paying season ticket holder going week in week out, I would want results straight away.

Now that Shane Long has knocked a few in is there any point in having a go at people who were frustrated by his below par performances?

It's not "understandable frustration" is sheer nastiness and vindictiveness.

I'm "frustrated" by Simon Church's lack of form, but I do NOT want the guy
hung drawn and quartered, I want him to come good.

There is a deep and nasty undercurrent on this forum. Good, hard-working players
are often vilified by people who ought to know better.

Kebe, Long, Bikey, Cummings, Harte, to name just five.

I don't mind constructive criticism or reasoned debate about whether a player will ever
make it at the level we're at or one higher.

But it's the TONE that disgusts me. It's like racism, and the worst of the spouters
are probably sad little fat men who have a miserable existence so get off a little
on jumping on some vitriolic bandwagon.

What often seems to be the case is Nobbers "decide" on a player's ability
and remain fixed in the (usually stupid) opinion. They are so rigid they
ruin debate with cute remarks.

According to these idiots, Long "is a pub player" who "will never be a footballer" who will "NEVER, EVER
score 20 goals at Championship level"... and he should oxf*rd off...

In a similar way, this season we won't win 3 games on the trot (those people are quiet now, eh?)
and "there's no way we'll reach the play-off places"... that's because we've lost Gylfi and there's
NO WAY you can replace his goals, WE AREN'T SCORING ENOUGH GOALS!! (Remember that one, Ian?)


Ho Ho Ho. Our Goal Difference is 22 better than this time last season with Gylfi, and we have 8 more points.

[southstand67]

oh when you put it like that!

[facaldaqui]

Surely any vitriol aimed at individual players has to be frustration does it not? Long has come into his own now- I only go to around 5-6 matches a season due to other commitments, but if I were a paying season ticket holder going week in week out, I would want results straight away.

Now that Shane Long has knocked a few in is there any point in having a go at people who were frustrated by his below par performances?

It's not "understandable frustration" is sheer nastiness and vindictiveness.

I'm "frustrated" by Simon Church's lack of form, but I do NOT want the guy
hung drawn and quartered, I want him to come good.

There is a deep and nasty undercurrent on this forum. Good, hard-working players
are often vilified by people who ought to know better.

Kebe, Long, Bikey, Cummings, Harte, to name just five.

I don't mind constructive criticism or reasoned debate about whether a player will ever
make it at the level we're at or one higher.

But it's the TONE that disgusts me. It's like racism, and the worst of the spouters
are probably sad little fat men who have a miserable existence so get off a little
on jumping on some vitriolic bandwagon.

Yes, certain people are harsh on this forum, just like some of the manic street preachers in the crowd are. But overall our fans are pretty tolerant and they were willingly turned round by visible improvements in the likes of Long, Kebe, and Pearce. The polls on this site always produce more reasonable results than might be expected from the posts of the vitriolic few.

Your own tone isn't always great either Snowball. Not towards the players but to other posters on the board. Sometimes you lump the bulk of us together in insulting terms. I think your responses to Ian are particularly ugly. In my opinion he is actually more like you than any other poster here, though his view of things is usually opposite to yours. For a start, you both share the characteristic of never being willing to let a thing go.

[Snowball]

I'm not a hypocrite

Nor do I jump on bandwagons so people might like me

[Royal Rother]

But it's the TONE that disgusts me. It's like racism, and the worst of the spouters are probably sad little fat men who have a miserable existence so get off a little on jumping on some vitriolic bandwagon.

You'd think so wouldn't you?

Anyway, where IS SDR these days?