Back from the Game - Brighton (H)

[Cripple Creek]

Creative mildfielders are like hens' teeth which is why they are so expensive. Look at Modric at Spurs and Chelsea's almost obsession with him. Even several clubs in the top half of the EPL don't possess them. Other than Simon Osborne and Gylfi I can't really recall anyone that special for Reading in the recent past in this department. It's a nice idea but, Howard, who could be described as a 'creative mildfielder' didn't really work. Basically they need to be good enough to have the team at least partly built around them which happened, in my opinion, with Osborne and Gylfi. If they aren't good enough they are a luxury that rarely works out.

[Hoop Blah]

Creative mildfielders are like hens' teeth which is why they are so expensive. Look at Modric at Spurs and Chelsea's almost obsession with him. Even several clubs in the top half of the EPL don't possess them. Other than Simon Osborne and Gylfi I can't really recall anyone that special for Reading in the recent past in this department. It's a nice idea but, Howard, who could be described as a 'creative mildfielder' didn't really work. Basically they need to be good enough to have the team at least partly built around them which happened, in my opinion, with Osborne and Gylfi. If they aren't good enough they are a luxury that rarely works out.

We don't need someone of that exact style or quality though, we just someone with a bit more guile or goal scoring threat, most decent teams have that to an extent in Championship (see my little list from) and the Premier League. Our wingers occasionally chip in with goals but not quite enough (Kebe has a couple of seasons) to cover for a lack of threat and goal return from the guys in the middle.

[Snowball]

Or get Karacan and ledge to score a few

Neither of them are, or ever have been, players who score that often. It's just not really in their game.

Generally speaking we should be asking players to do what they're good at, not trying to get them to do things that aren't part of their games as that usually doesn't work. Some things can be worked on and addressed through training and a bit of focus/encouragment/tactics but sometimes you have to accept that players have limitations, strengths and weaknesses.

I predict that Karacan will start scoring more goals, hopefully for us.

And will routinely get 6+ per season

Since then...

2 Goals for Karacan
3 Goals for Elwood

[Dare to Dr£am]

LOL @ bigging that up.

[mr_number]

This was a good performance, wasn't it? More of the same next week, please.

[Hoop Blah]

I predict that Karacan will start scoring more goals, hopefully for us.

And will routinely get 6+ per season

Since then...

2 Goals for Karacan
3 Goals for Elwood

Which translates to 5.4 goals over a 46 game season for Karacan doesn't it?

Also, remember that means he's scored in 1 game since Boxing Day, or, to take a longer term view, 2 games since the season started. That's still not the form of a goal scoring midfielder.

At the time I said that 6 goals a season wasn't what I considered the midfield goals we needed (especially with the lack of regular goals we get from our wingers, Kebe and McAnuff have 8 between them I think) and it's not enough to make say that they're regular goalscorers.

If this is one of your attempts at proving you're right, I'd at least come back when the figures support your argument.

[JimmytheJim]

I predict that Karacan will start scoring more goals, hopefully for us.

And will routinely get 6+ per season

Since then...

2 Goals for Karacan
3 Goals for Elwood

Which translates to 5.4 goals over a 46 game season for Karacan doesn't it?

Also, remember that means he's scored in 1 game since Boxing Day, or, to take a longer term view, 2 games since the season started. That's still not the form of a goal scoring midfielder.

At the time I said that 6 goals a season wasn't what I considered the midfield goals we needed (especially with the lack of regular goals we get from our wingers, Kebe and McAnuff have 8 between them I think) and it's not enough to make say that they're regular goalscorers.

If this is one of your attempts at proving you're right, I'd at least come back when the figures support your argument.

Don't encourage him...

[Maguire]

I'd at least come back when the figures support your argument.

How on earth do you expect him to figure out when that is?

[Hoop Blah]

I'd at least come back when the figures support your argument.

How on earth do you expect him to figure out when that is?

I used to have a dog that would spend hours chasing it's tail.

He never caught it, but he had a hell of a lot of fun trying.

[JIM]

I had a dog who chased parked cars

[Snowball]

In 2012 there has been no increase in the number of shots
or goals from central midfielders, the central midfielders have
not been getting into the box more, and nobody on HobNob
has commented on the fact.



Is that right?

[Ian Royal]

It's certainly not what anyone has said, whether it's right or wrong.

Poor strawmanning.

[Snowball]

It's certainly not what anyone has said, whether it's right or wrong.

Poor strawmanning.

Sorry? Are you saying that nobody here thinks or says or has recently said that it appears
the central midfielders' shackles have been removed and they are getting
into goal-scoring positions far more?

I know for certain it has been said.

[Ian Royal]

Without wanting to get into a petty argument, so this is my last word on the subject.

You said originally

no increase in the number of shots
or goals from central midfielders, the central midfielders have
not been getting into the box more,

Which is the opposite of what you said following my post. That's either a massive shift of goal posts (to the other end of the pitch in fact) or a very poor use of language to communicate your point.

[Snowball]

Without wanting to get into a petty argument, so this is my last word on the subject.

You said originally

no increase in the number of shots
or goals from central midfielders, the central midfielders have
not been getting into the box more,

Which is the opposite of what you said following my post. That's either a massive shift of goal posts (to the other end of the pitch in fact) or a very poor use of language to communicate your point.

Oh fer Chrissakes, Ian.

I started out by making the point that Jem and Elwood were shooting more
and scoring more. Hoop replied and I then posted a clear "opposite of reality" post.

I'd've thought even you would get that. Should I have put "LOL" after it?

[paultheroyal]

In 2012 there has been no increase in the number of shots
or goals from central midfielders, the central midfielders have
not been getting into the box more, and nobody on HobNob
has commented on the fact.



Is that right?

I just don't really care anymore with all this. Does my fruit in.

[Snowball]

[

If this is one of your attempts at proving you're right, I'd at least come back when the figures support your argument.

1,617 Minutes 1 Goals 1,617 Minutes per Goal (Karacan before to Dec 29th)
1,421 Minutes 2 Goals 0,711 Minutes per Goal (Karacan since Dec 29th)

Karacan scoring at a rate 227% better than before Dec 29th.



2,068 Minutes 1 Goals 2,068 Minutes per Goal (Elwood before Dec 29th)
1,256 Minutes 3 Goals 0,419 Minutes per Goal (Elwood since Dec 29th)

Elwood scoring at a rate 494% better than before Dec 29th.


3,685 Minutes 2 Goals 1,843 Minutes per Goal (Elwood & Karacan before December 29th)
2,677 Minutes 5 Goals 0,535 Minutes per Goal (Elwood & Karacan before December 29th)

The combination, Elwood & Jem is scoring at a mere 344% better rate than prior to Dec 29th



Add to this that both players have been getting more shots away, (eg Elwood first half v Barnsley)
and in the game where Jem got two he was about to pull the trigger when McAnuff nicked it!

Maguire and I were discussing the fact very recently, where I argued that McDermott must
have given the two extra licence to go forward. Others felt it was more to do with confidence.

[Snowball]

I just don't really care anymore with all this. Does my fruit in.

it shouldn't. What it means is we are now getting goals from the central midfielders,
precisely what we were crying out for in the first half of the season

Whereas Jobi is about the same

(he got 2 goals 26 Dec, had that date been chosen as the before/after date the figures
would be even more striking 4 times the goals in 2/3 of the time)


524 Min/Goal before
567 Mins/Goal after


There has been a sea-change in how we play. I can't say it was immediately obvious
but McAnuff-Kebe and Jem-Elwood are totaling 5 v 9 goals, the 9 in less than 2/3
of the minutes. If you take Boxing Day as the switch it's 3-11, an almost 4-fold increase in
goals scored by our midfielders, in 2/3 of the minutes. That's a six-fold better strike rate,
hardly likely to be an accident.

Whether it's confidence, or McD allowing them forward more, or the Roberts effect, it's hard
to be sure, but the change in where goals are coming from is very large.

[Mr Angry]

A hugely enjoyable game; not just the result, but some of our play in the first half was superb.

Its clear that the back 5 and the 2 central midfielders are solid, which gives the foundation for this performance and other recent ones, with the result that we have come into the top 6 almost under the radar.

2nd half of the season looks a lot more interesting than it appeared it would in September!

Woo hoo - an accurate prediction from Mr A!!!

[Hoop Blah]

[

If this is one of your attempts at proving you're right, I'd at least come back when the figures support your argument.

1,617 Minutes 1 Goals 1,617 Minutes per Goal (Karacan before to Dec 29th)
1,421 Minutes 2 Goals 0,711 Minutes per Goal (Karacan since Dec 29th)

Karacan scoring at a rate 227% better than before Dec 29th.



2,068 Minutes 1 Goals 2,068 Minutes per Goal (Elwood before Dec 29th)
1,256 Minutes 3 Goals 0,419 Minutes per Goal (Elwood since Dec 29th)

Elwood scoring at a rate 494% better than before Dec 29th.


3,685 Minutes 2 Goals 1,843 Minutes per Goal (Elwood & Karacan before December 29th)
2,677 Minutes 5 Goals 0,535 Minutes per Goal (Elwood & Karacan before December 29th)

The combination, Elwood & Jem is scoring at a mere 344% better rate than prior to Dec 29th



Add to this that both players have been getting more shots away, (eg Elwood first half v Barnsley)
and in the game where Jem got two he was about to pull the trigger when McAnuff nicked it!

Maguire and I were discussing the fact very recently, where I argued that McDermott must
have given the two extra licence to go forward. Others felt it was more to do with confidence.

You predicted that Karacan would soon turn into a 6+ goal a season midfielder (that's not the return of a goal scoring midfielder though, which was my point).

His current rich vein of form in front of goal (two goals in 1 game since the prediction) would translate into 5.4 goals over a full 46 game Championship season. Hence he still isn't performing as you predicted.