BFTG villa

[ZacNaloen]

Pog wasn't the reason 4-5-1 worked defensively (we were utterly toothless from an attacking sense because of the players mcdermott was picking, but we were more solid), that's just ridiculous.

[Maguire]

Pog wasn't the reason 4-5-1 worked defensively (we were utterly toothless from an attacking sense because of the players mcdermott was picking, but we were more solid), that's just ridiculous.

Actually it is important in a 451 to have someone up top who can hold the ball up. That's where defending starts. Suggesting a 451 is equally tight defensively no matter who plays as the 1 is barmy.

[ZacNaloen]

Actually it is important in a 451 to have someone up top who can hold the ball up. That's where defending starts. Suggesting a 451 is equally tight defensively no matter who plays as the 1 is barmy.

Absolute nonsense.

[ZacNaloen]

Its' important if you build up play is limited to playing 40 yard passes from your defensive line. Which obviously is Mcdermotts preferred tactic. But even Pog was shit at that, how many contested headers did he win again? In terms of holding the ball up we were still awful, but at least we had men behind the ball defensively and had the option to switch a more defensive or attacking shape depending how how the game was going.

With the players we have playing 4-4-2 our options are extremely limited and more importantly we are completely open defensively.

[The Rouge]

Actually it is important in a 451 to have someone up top who can hold the ball up. That's where defending starts. Suggesting a 451 is equally tight defensively no matter who plays as the 1 is barmy.

Absolute nonsense.

lolwut

of course it matters... how much closing down did Doyle or Long do when playing the one up top? If you can't get a block in, it often forces players to hoof/play the ball upfront with less thought or accuracy. Rather than having all the time in the world to find the CM, who turns and plays through us with ease.

Wigan had some joy that way and Westwood got on the ball way too much yesterday as well.

[ZacNaloen]

What nonsense is the suggestion that we were more solid because of good hold up play from Pog.

Good hold up play is important to being able to turn a defensive situation in 4-5-1 into an attacking one. We were completely shit at that. But at least we weren't conceeding as cheaply against shit teams.

[littlejohnnyoster]

Pearce at fault for second goal - was literally picking his nose as the initial cross game in and miles away from his man!

Marriapa was bullied.

Ledge gave away the first goal with an outrageously cr@p hoof in the air.

I really can't see what Ledge offers that Jem, Tabby (sent off to Ipswich??) and Guthrie don't.

Feel people are being really harsh on Jobi as he was our only attacking outlet.

Tactics, players, attitude = POOR

Easy to blame Pearce for the second. Villa's move started as a result of McAnuff drifting into the middle of the pitch and leaving Harte trying to defend against 2 Villa players. McAnuff more at fault IMHO, but it's another one of those comedy of errors goals...

Agree about Ledge but McAnuff was just as bad today.

Totally apathy abounded in the household after that. Villa were atrocious, but they did not have to be any better than that. Our starting lineup just screamed CHAMPIONSHIP QUALITY and we must have the most woeful midfield in the history of the Prem - devoid of quality and even basic ball retention skills; and don't even get me started on why we STILL persist in a 4-4-2 - cannot keep the ball so we play a shape that guarantees the opposition even more of the ball.

A nightmare season in every respect.

Give teams time enough in front of you to pass the ball and be patient and eventually they will pick a hole. If you are not going to hunt the ball down then you need to keep compact with discipline and shape. Jobi just went completely AWOL and left Harte totally exposed in a 2v1 and then they were behind us. We were/are naive, tactically inept, totally lacking in the bare minimum quality required to even give it a shot of staying in the Prem and that is why we heading back to the Championship. Again.

I think Hunt's response to being hauled after just nine minutes of the second half shows to me that Brian has lost the dressing room and the players. Despite honouring what he has done for the club, he is now a dead man walking and only a matter of time for him now.

Good post! Hunt substitution was madness in my mind too, he was causing so many more problems than an anonymous Alfie.

We are told time and time again that we have great unity and team spirit but the way BM has handled issues with Guthrie, Federici, Tabb and Pearce (who have been some of our best performers this season) as well as the very odd situation with Carrico screams otherwise. You could tell Hunt wanted to kick off when he got taken off.

Reverting to 4-4-2 and persisting with a CM devoid of passing talent has really sealed the casket.

[Millsy]

We missed Pog yesterday.

As I keep saying our squad is just not good enough. Pog up front gives us stability. Without him, goodbye 451 and goodbye any chance of being half decent as 442 doesnt suit us. Our squad is so fragile that Pog being out means we're rubbish.

Much as I ant stand the little oik of a creature that Guthrie is, I'm feeling that if he was starting we may have had a chance. But i still don't feel this is down to selection decisions, it's more down to the fact that we have a champ squad at best.

Still, Akpan and Carico and Blackman will come good for us, just like kebe eventually did and in the next few years we will come up again.

Overall there's a lot to be positive about with the last couple of years. We went up, got some money in ino order to develop the academy, didn't break the bank and well be in the champ again with a stronger squad, a bit of prem experience and most importantly the realisation from Anton that if you go up you HAVE to invest a bit more.

It's never nice to be relegated but to be fair things are looking really good for Reading.

[Snowball]

I'm amazed at the love for Guthrie. Sure, when someone else does the dirty work he might find a pass
but how many passes that have mattered has he made?

But more to the point, when we DON'T have the ball he seems to just wander around like he
wants to keep his shorts clean.

I do not doubt for a minute that he is capable of playing a good ball but he just doesn't get in the game enough offensively
and is almost useless defensively.

Just try looking at the stats of goals for and against when Guthrie is on the pitch.



SECOND POINT

When Elwood arrived, I forget how many games we went undefeated but his effect on the side was IMMENSE.

I'm aware that this was in the Championship but the trotted out near-hatred is simply wrong. When he is not on the pitch
who the hell can do the dirty work, break up play, intercept etc? The only player is Karacan, and much as I think Jem is
a good player he's not recaptured his best form since his injury and is no better at keeping the ball once won.

The difference now is simply that stuff we got away with in the Championship we now don't. Passes have to be inch-perfect now,
opposition midfielders are faster-moving, faster-thinking and punish just about everything.

Sure, maybe Elwood isn't good enough to be a first-choice midfield destroyer in a mid-table Premiership side, but where is his support?

If he was in a midfield with a Wilshire, a Gerard, Siggy, Mata, Bale, and any one of two dozen others, he'd be fine. The fact is our midfield, even
when we play five is always under severe pressure and when we play two it's a total JOKE, not because the players are useless but because they
are outnumbered and outclassed.

Villa yesterday had a solid enough team, dodgy at the back but a number of players who would P!SS into our first 11.

I can't blame the players. It's not like they aren't trying. Blame the Board/Management.

[ZacNaloen]

The fact is our midfield, even
when we play five is always under severe pressure and when we play two it's a total JOKE, not because the players are useless but because they
are outnumbered and outclassed.

Exactly. 4-5-1 is marginally better, and the best we can put out, and there is no excuse to play 4-4-2.

Pog being out is no excuse to play in a shape that is pretty much guaranteed to lose you the game. Shit hold up play from your striker or not.

Pogs hold up play was maybe the best on offer in our squad but was still awful.

[Snowball]

IF we are without Pog, and we don't feel that any of the other players
can play his role, why not 3-5-2?

[ZacNaloen]

I'm not sure our defensive communication is good enough to make that work, just look at the type of goal we usually concede from out wide.

We should just make do with Blackman until Pog is back.

[Ian Royal]

Dont you mean you noticed me say it on the BFTG Everton thread...

I've no idea who you are and have no recollection of ever seeing a post you've made. So no. Who'd have thought two people watching the same games could have a convergent thought.

I very much doubt that, Ive replied to stuff youve said before, and you replied to it. So this now makes me even more sure that my accusation is true.

I've got 30000 posts and I'll reply to anyone. You're flattering yourself.

[Elm Park Old Boy]

All very depressing and - for all that there are 27 points to play for and miracles happen - that looked to me like a team going down.

So I hope we can regain a bit of dignity and class in the nine games that remain to us. We need to get behind the team. The booing and jeering at our own players was embarrassing. I didn't see players who were not making an effort - they clearly were - but I saw a lack of quality and weaknesses of organisation. The attacks on JM and ML are disappointing and, what's worse, self-defeating.

Let's get back a bit of pride and positive spirit. Who knows, maybe it will have an effect and we might get some points.

[Ian Royal]

Zac - all fair points.

I don't think we have any two midfielders who can play as a pair in the PL without leaving us exposed, I do think Guthrie is a better baller than the others in his position, but at the same time I also see us as pretty toothless when it comes to playing 451 (Particularly with no Pog).

Where I don't agree with BMac is the side he picked against Wigan - if you go 451 then one of the central three has to be McAnuff or Guthrie. Playing Akpan, Karacan, and Leigertwood just offers nothing.

Absolutely agree with that. Maybe add Robson-Kanu to the Guthrie / McAnuff options in the centre.

[loyalroyal4life]

Lol at anyone who thinks Harte should be in the team instead of Shorey!!

Brian needs to man up and drop his favourites, the likes of ledge and harte were awful

[Millsy]

I'm amazed at the love for Guthrie.

I agree and ave always said this. And much as I dislike the little arrogant spoilt twerp (who quite possibly is the reason we are going down - destroying a fantastic team spirit - And although as I stayed quiet for the sake of team spirit now were ikely going down anyway I can let loose- SPD is not a f**king disaster and DEFINITELY not reason to not travel with the squad you little imbecile, you fool no one who actually knows stuff), he might've actually had a point when he pointed out that our good run coincided with him being in the team. snowball you say the goals conceded vs scored is poor when he's in the team but I have to admit he did coincide with our good run, did he not. Can you stat this please? I'd like to be wrong but I think the lad has a point?

When Elwood arrived, I forget how many games we went undefeated but his effect on the side was IMMENSE.

I'm aware that this was in the Championship but the trotted out near-hatred is simply wrong. When he is not on the pitch
who the hell can do the dirty work, break up play, intercept etc? The only player is Karacan, and much as I think Jem is
a good player he's not recaptured his best form since his injury and is no better at keeping the ball once won.

The difference now is simply that stuff we got away with in the Championship we now don't. Passes have to be inch-perfect now,
opposition midfielders are faster-moving, faster-thinking and punish just about everything.

Sure, maybe Elwood isn't good enough to be a first-choice midfield destroyer in a mid-table Premiership side, but where is his support?

Not that my opinion matters really, but I've always sat on the fence with this one and I suspect this is because it s a tough one to understand. The only thing I've said, and will continue to say, in defence of Legs is that when you win balls you're going to lose more balls because it's harder to lay off a ball you've just won than one that's been passed to you as anyone who's ever played football will agree with. and Legs is a ball winner. Who could do that job?

Your point in defence of Legs doesn't really say much other than what the Legs bashes say I.e. yes he's good but he's not good enough for the Prem. Nothing new there except you seem to be using it to defend Legs somehow(!?). The point of the bashers is that he's out of his depth here.

As for support, excuse me if I'm misunderstanding his role here but ball-winner like legs is pretty much a water carrier. He wins the balls, does the dirty work and then lays it off to someone who can do something with it. What support does he need? He doesn't need service. If you mean support in terms of passing it to someone decent who can do something then I'd say that any player we have is better than he is when it comes to doing something with the ball (except for that wonder pass to kebe). In which case perhaps him not being able to do something with a won ball IS an issue... In which case it comes back to him just not being good enough for the prem, because in the prem you want a ball winner who's able to pass it on too rather Han break up play. I go round in circles. I'm confused.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

I'm not sure our defensive communication is good enough to make that work, just look at the type of goal we usually concede from out wide.

We should just make do with Blackman until Pog is back.

^^^ HRK could do that job I reckon

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Lol at anyone who thinks Harte should be in the team instead of Shorey!!

LOL at anyone who thinks having Shorey in will make any difference at all at left back

[Millsy]

Lol at anyone who thinks Harte should be in the team instead of Shorey!!

LOL at anyone who thinks having Shorey in will make any difference at all at left back

I reckon having my grandma in will make a big positive diffrence at left back. Granted it won't do much for our free kicks but that's the the primary role of a left back.

Brian not getting in a proper left back, is, as I predicted before the season began, the biggest weakness we have.

Why he could see it on the right but nt the left baffles me.