Finance

[Jagermesiter1871]

How has Mr Dai put £120million in to this bang average team? That's astonishing.

[Elm Park Kid]

Personally, I'm not ok with cicumnavigating the rules, or running up ludicrous debt.

Except we don’t have any meaningful debt (the sort that gets you wound up by HMRC) and we’ve not circumvented rules. If we had circumvented them we would be in trouble. We’ve found ways to organise our finances so we aren’t breaking the rules. I would suggest clubs who go into administration to avoid paying debts are circumventing rules and causing problems for others. Whether you put an asset in one column or another is purely accounting procedure with no ‘victim’

Bollocks. Dress it up how you want, but spending way more than your income and selling assets to yourself is getting into debt and circumventing the rules.

A few years here and there to make a big step followed by paying it off. Fine. But this is a decade of miss spending on shit to a huge scale.

I wasn't ok with it when other clubs were doing it and I'm not ok with us following.

Ultimately though, this is the league now. There are only two types of team that can compete in the Championship: Those that hit the football lottery by having their youth, cheap signings and managerial appointments all coming good at the same time; and (more often) those that spend vast amounts of money over multiple season. The first method really is about luck, there is not guaranteed way to achieve it. The second requires a combination of deep pockets from owners, large revenue from your fans and some very decent accountants and lawyers.

I hate it, I really do. But this is what football is now - there is so much money in the Premier League that there's a lot of people now ready to pour hundreds of millions into promotion pushes. We either play the game or we refuse and accept that Reading will probably be a championship/league one yo-yo club.

[STAR Liaison]

I see Star have done their usual,thing of getting someone who knows what they are talking about to look at the accounts and give their view (fair chance it is someone who has already posted). Presents a rather less apocalyptic view of things which is nice.
While I think everyone would prefer it if football clubs were not bottomless money pits (despite the fact that they have always been like this, it’s not a modern thing), the somewhat daft FFP rules force clubs to be creative. Looks like our owners are juggling their own money between accounts so the numbers work. They have said that they would rather simply put the cash into the club but aren’t allowed to do so.

IIRC the STAR review is approved by the club, so it will be accurate

It is though through a telephone conversation rather than the usual face to face meeting.

[STAR Liaison]

This message is copied from the STAR Forum, where many fear to (or at least don't) tread. It does relate to the finance topic but Reading Matter contains more than that as you might see...

The 2020 edition of 20-page Reading Matter is now out and can be accessed via pdf download from our website www.star-reading.org

It covers the impact of Covid-19, the Reading FC financial situation, our expensive 60-prong attack, Club 1871, Reading fans doing the Charleston, what STAR has been doing over this season and how you (18+s) can stand for election to the STAR Board. Please take a read.

In the current circumstances we are not issuing a printed version of Reading Matter (it might be well out-of-date by the time it arrives) but we may do a limited print run later in the year.

[Royals and Racers]

This message is copied from the STAR Forum, where many fear to (or at least don't) tread. It does relate to the finance topic but Reading Matter contains more than that as you might see...

The 2020 edition of 20-page Reading Matter is now out and can be accessed via pdf download from our website http://www.star-reading.org

It covers the impact of Covid-19, the Reading FC financial situation, our expensive 60-prong attack, Club 1871, Reading fans doing the Charleston, what STAR has been doing over this season and how you (18+s) can stand for election to the STAR Board. Please take a read.

In the current circumstances we are not issuing a printed version of Reading Matter (it might be well out-of-date by the time it arrives) but we may do a limited print run later in the year.

https://star-reading.org/wp-content/upl ... 0.docx.pdf

[Hound]

I see Star have done their usual,thing of getting someone who knows what they are talking about to look at the accounts and give their view (fair chance it is someone who has already posted). Presents a rather less apocalyptic view of things which is nice.
While I think everyone would prefer it if football clubs were not bottomless money pits (despite the fact that they have always been like this, it’s not a modern thing), the somewhat daft FFP rules force clubs to be creative. Looks like our owners are juggling their own money between accounts so the numbers work. They have said that they would rather simply put the cash into the club but aren’t allowed to do so.

IIRC the STAR review is approved by the club, so it will be accurate

A fascinating read https://star-reading.org/wp-content/upl ... -FINAL.pdf

Yep interesting read

[tmesis]

Except we don’t have any meaningful debt (the sort that gets you wound up by HMRC) and we’ve not circumvented rules. If we had circumvented them we would be in trouble. We’ve found ways to organise our finances so we aren’t breaking the rules. I would suggest clubs who go into administration to avoid paying debts are circumventing rules and causing problems for others. Whether you put an asset in one column or another is purely accounting procedure with no ‘victim’

Bollocks. Dress it up how you want, but spending way more than your income and selling assets to yourself is getting into debt and circumventing the rules.

A few years here and there to make a big step followed by paying it off. Fine. But this is a decade of miss spending on shit to a huge scale.

I wasn't ok with it when other clubs were doing it and I'm not ok with us following.

Ultimately though, this is the league now. There are only two types of team that can compete in the Championship: Those that hit the football lottery by having their youth, cheap signings and managerial appointments all coming good at the same time; and (more often) those that spend vast amounts of money over multiple season. The first method really is about luck, there is not guaranteed way to achieve it. The second requires a combination of deep pockets from owners, large revenue from your fans and some very decent accountants and lawyers.

It's not "luck". It's about good recruitment, recognising staff who are able to do a good job, being able to recognise the cause of failure, rather than just sacking the manager every year.

Good and bad signings don't just happen. A good signing will complement the players you have, will have the right attitude, will have the right skillset needed. Clubs who don't do their homework on player, or just buy people because they are desperate for players and those players were available, invariably make poor choices.


With the parachute payment money sloshing around these days, it is becoming harder for a club like Reading to get promoted to the premier league, but I'd much rather we were run in a sustainable way that pissing £30 million a year up the wall to be a club full of uninterested mediocre footballers on ridiculous wages.

[One87One]

Popping this here from Policies, as it may/may not, reflect on RFC finances(?)

There's something slightly weird in the accounts of one of the companies associated with RFC and the REP development. The Thais have pledged the shares to RFC Propco to someone as security for a loan. The loan has been defaulted upon and therefore someone other than the Thais now own the shares! The accounts then state that this transfer of share ownership is under dispute. I suspect this is a key reason why there's been absolutely no movement on the development.

[Ascotexgunner]

Popping this here from Policies, as it may/may not, reflect on RFC finances(?)

There's something slightly weird in the accounts of one of the companies associated with RFC and the REP development. The Thais have pledged the shares to RFC Propco to someone as security for a loan. The loan has been defaulted upon and therefore someone other than the Thais now own the shares! The accounts then state that this transfer of share ownership is under dispute. I suspect this is a key reason why there's been absolutely no movement on the development.

My head drops when I hear "fans" moan about the Kronke's and Glazier's of this world. The more I read about these Thai's the more all the clubs biggest problems lead back to them......

[Snowflake Royal]

Popping this here from Policies, as it may/may not, reflect on RFC finances(?)

There's something slightly weird in the accounts of one of the companies associated with RFC and the REP development. The Thais have pledged the shares to RFC Propco to someone as security for a loan. The loan has been defaulted upon and therefore someone other than the Thais now own the shares! The accounts then state that this transfer of share ownership is under dispute. I suspect this is a key reason why there's been absolutely no movement on the development.

My head drops when I hear "fans" moan about the Kronke's and Glazier's of this world. The more I read about these Thai's the more all the clubs biggest problems lead back to them......

They start very firmly with Anton Zingaravich

[Ascotexgunner]

Popping this here from Policies, as it may/may not, reflect on RFC finances(?)

My head drops when I hear "fans" moan about the Kronke's and Glazier's of this world. The more I read about these Thai's the more all the clubs biggest problems lead back to them......

They start very firmly with Anton Zingaravich

Absolutely, the rot did start with the fake oligarch, but even he didn't damage the club in the way they have, breaking the club up in the way they have done. The sh*t they have caused, the financial mayhem etc. They have robbed this club blind.

[Snowflake Royal]

My head drops when I hear "fans" moan about the Kronke's and Glazier's of this world. The more I read about these Thai's the more all the clubs biggest problems lead back to them......

They start very firmly with Anton Zingaravich

Absolutely, the rot did start with the fake oligarch, but even he didn't damage the club in the way they have, breaking the club up in the way they have done. The sh*t they have caused, the financial mayhem etc. They have robbed this club blind.

I don't think that's clear at all.

They didn't sell the ground into separate ownership. Or the training ground from what I recall.

And we were reportedly on HMRC's winding up list until the Thais came in and covered that debt.

They didn't sign Drenthe or Pogrebnyak either.

[SCIAG]

Yeah definitely not getting on the Thai hate train, they had our best interests in mind and clearly cared about the club. Weren’t quite rich enough to do all the financing, and they bungled both Clarke and McDermott, but overall they definitely get pass marks.

[One87One]

How has Mr Dai put £120million in to this bang average team? That's astonishing.

Transfer fees, wage bill, paying off failed management and staff, new training ground. Guess it all adds up and doesn't seem to go very far.

[Nameless]

They start very firmly with Anton Zingaravich

Absolutely, the rot did start with the fake oligarch, but even he didn't damage the club in the way they have, breaking the club up in the way they have done. The sh*t they have caused, the financial mayhem etc. They have robbed this club blind.

I don't think that's clear at all.

They didn't sell the ground into separate ownership. Or the training ground from what I recall.

And we were reportedly on HMRC's winding up list until the Thais came in and covered that debt.

They didn't sign Drenthe or Pogrebnyak either.

I believe that technically the company that owned the ground was not the football club even in SJM’s days.
And again IIRC the club never owned Hogwood, SJM owned it personally.

[One87One]

Yep, SJM owned Hogwood. Bought the land off of REME Arborfield.

[Fox Talbot]

TMESIS QUOTE < It's not "luck". It's about good recruitment, recognising staff who are able to do a good job, being able to recognise the cause of failure, rather than just sacking the manager every year.

Good and bad signings don't just happen. A good signing will complement the players you have, will have the right attitude, will have the right skillset needed. Clubs who don't do their homework on player, or just buy people because they are desperate for players and those players were available, invariably make poor choices. > END QUOTE

The page in Reading Matter '60 prong attack' really brings that point home by listing 60 midfield / strikers we've paid for in the last 7 years. Worth reading for that alone.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Bollocks. Dress it up how you want, but spending way more than your income and selling assets to yourself is getting into debt and circumventing the rules.

A few years here and there to make a big step followed by paying it off. Fine. But this is a decade of miss spending on shit to a huge scale.

I wasn't ok with it when other clubs were doing it and I'm not ok with us following.

Ultimately though, this is the league now. There are only two types of team that can compete in the Championship: Those that hit the football lottery by having their youth, cheap signings and managerial appointments all coming good at the same time; and (more often) those that spend vast amounts of money over multiple season. The first method really is about luck, there is not guaranteed way to achieve it. The second requires a combination of deep pockets from owners, large revenue from your fans and some very decent accountants and lawyers.

It's not "luck". It's about good recruitment, recognising staff who are able to do a good job, being able to recognise the cause of failure, rather than just sacking the manager every year.

Good and bad signings don't just happen. A good signing will complement the players you have, will have the right attitude, will have the right skillset needed. Clubs who don't do their homework on player, or just buy people because they are desperate for players and those players were available, invariably make poor choices.


With the parachute payment money sloshing around these days, it is becoming harder for a club like Reading to get promoted to the premier league, but I'd much rather we were run in a sustainable way that pissing £30 million a year up the wall to be a club full of uninterested mediocre footballers on ridiculous wages.

Glad you got in first. I'm actually thought the first post may be WUMing. Good signings and youth development luck.

[Jagermesiter1871]

How come there isn't uproar that non-playing staff at Reading are being furloughed whilst there is no change to players pay?

[Nameless]

How come there isn't uproar that non-playing staff at Reading are being furloughed whilst there is no change to players pay?

Has there been uproar at other clubs outside the mega rich Big 6 ?