How bad would relegation be?

[paultheroyal]

Go down, and we ain't coming back for a while. Could be years even like Ipswich or Sunderland.....unless we get really lucky and find a great manager.....which if recent selections are to go by....isn't gonna happen.

Ipswich and Sunderland haven't been down that long. They're only just beyond the reasonable 3 year bounce back period.

do you just make all this up as you go along. 3 year bounce back period but rule book is that in?

[SCIAG]

I've never understood fans who would rather be watching Reading play Liverpool or West Ham over Birmingham or Blackburn, or Portsmouth or Charlton. As long as the team is still playing every week the entertainment is largely the same, we enjoy the victories and try to forget about the defeats.

The difference is in the quality of football, both in terms of the opposition and the players we can attract (although admittedly we have struggled to attract quality players in both our spells in the top flight).

I have much better memories of McCarthy shutting out Coutinho, Suarez and Sturridge than I do of some random 0-0 draw under Clarke or Bowen. Much better memories of losing 4-0 to an Arsenal team containing Henry and Fabregas than to Norwich.

If we drop to League One, we’ll struggle to attract players like Norwood or Swift or Meite. Best we can hope for is loans from the top clubs and our own academy graduates.

[Snowflake Royal]

Go down, and we ain't coming back for a while. Could be years even like Ipswich or Sunderland.....unless we get really lucky and find a great manager.....which if recent selections are to go by....isn't gonna happen.

Ipswich and Sunderland haven't been down that long. They're only just beyond the reasonable 3 year bounce back period.

do you just make all this up as you go along. 3 year bounce back period but rule book is that in?

Thank you for your continued worthless contribution. Your comments have been noted and filed under I for idiot.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Ipswich and Sunderland haven't been down that long. They're only just beyond the reasonable 3 year bounce back period.

do you just make all this up as you go along. 3 year bounce back period but rule book is that in?

Thank you for your continued worthless contribution. Your comments have been noted and filed under I for idiot.

In all fairness, both are quite likely to spend a 5th season in League One next time around. One of that is almost certain to as I can't see either of them breaking into the top 2 this season.

[Snowflake Royal]

do you just make all this up as you go along. 3 year bounce back period but rule book is that in?

Thank you for your continued worthless contribution. Your comments have been noted and filed under I for idiot.

In all fairness, both are quite likely to spend a 5th season in League One next time around. One of that is almost certain to as I can't see either of them breaking into the top 2 this season.

Yeah, they're heading into being in a substantial period in the wilderness, but they're only really just in that phase imo.

The minimum you're down there is one year, and only a fool or very particular circumstances would expect an immediate bounce back.

Four years is obviously at least 3 failed attempts and moving into a complete squad change. So realistically a reasonable bounce back can only be within 2-3 years. They're currently just outside that.

And based on that I'd say 5/6+ seasons is really where languishing in a lower division for the long haul kicks in.

A while back I took a look at relegations for clubs of a similar or greater size than us going back a while and something like half to most made it back in 3 years with a small number not getting there and a few up to about 6.

Ie, we've got a pretty decent chance of following the trend and coming back within about 3 years

[paultheroyal]

Ipswich and Sunderland haven't been down that long. They're only just beyond the reasonable 3 year bounce back period.

do you just make all this up as you go along. 3 year bounce back period but rule book is that in?

Thank you for your continued worthless contribution. Your comments have been noted and filed under I for idiot.

3 year bounce back....

[Notts Royal]

Is it me or is L1 a much stronger division that it was when we were there last? Not necessarily in terms of talent, but clubs.

There’s at least half a dozen that are bigger than us: Sunderland, Pompey, Ipswich, Sheff Wed, Charlton, Bolton (marginally), Plymouth?

Lolly @ Charlton, Bolton or especially Plymouth being bigger than us.

And what exactly have Wednesday or Ipswich done in the last 20 years to be bigger than us?

Pompey used to be more recently, but they're a shadow of their former (cheating) selves. And being big hasn’t done Sunderland any favours for quite a while.

Maybe not so much in recent history, but we are a similar statured club to Charlton and Bolton I'd say are bigger than what we are. Plymouth have a great fanbase and have spent some years in Division One (Championship) but they are not bigger.

Wednesday and Ipswich are definitely traditionally bigger clubs than ourselves, as are Sunderland. Whether it helps them or hinders them now is a different story, but you'd get the feeling that they will eventually make it out of that division, whereas the likes of Shrewsbury and Lincoln, who have recently made it to the play off final in League One, you would imagine would have to make the most of the opportunity to get out of League One, whereas your Sunderland's, Ipswich's, Portsmouth's etc there is a general feeling that it's "only a matter of time" before they do. Time being the variable of course.

Being near to Lincoln, I can vouch for their home attendance being a solid 9k a match (nearly at capacity) & they take a larger away following then we do. Which isn’t hard tbh as we are consistently bottom 3 when it comes to away attendances in recent seasons.

Charlton are pulling in more in L1 currently than we are in the Champ I believe, and they’re lower midtable

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Lolly @ Charlton, Bolton or especially Plymouth being bigger than us.

And what exactly have Wednesday or Ipswich done in the last 20 years to be bigger than us?

Pompey used to be more recently, but they're a shadow of their former (cheating) selves. And being big hasn’t done Sunderland any favours for quite a while.

Maybe not so much in recent history, but we are a similar statured club to Charlton and Bolton I'd say are bigger than what we are. Plymouth have a great fanbase and have spent some years in Division One (Championship) but they are not bigger.

Wednesday and Ipswich are definitely traditionally bigger clubs than ourselves, as are Sunderland. Whether it helps them or hinders them now is a different story, but you'd get the feeling that they will eventually make it out of that division, whereas the likes of Shrewsbury and Lincoln, who have recently made it to the play off final in League One, you would imagine would have to make the most of the opportunity to get out of League One, whereas your Sunderland's, Ipswich's, Portsmouth's etc there is a general feeling that it's "only a matter of time" before they do. Time being the variable of course.

Being near to Lincoln, I can vouch for their home attendance being a solid 9k a match (nearly at capacity) & they take a larger away following then we do. Which isn’t hard tbh as we are consistently bottom 3 when it comes to away attendances in recent seasons.

Charlton are pulling in more in L1 currently than we are in the Champ I believe, and they’re lower midtable

Yeah it wasn't so much a dig at Lincoln or anything because they do have a pretty decent following but, in terms of traditional size of the club, they are very much a lower end football league club.

Tbf, I do think, at this level, our fanbase should be between £14-16k at home each game. I think the reasons why it isn't probably comes down to the mess that the club is in. But a few seasons ago when we were bottom half just after we missed out on the play offs we were still pulling in around those figures most games.

[Snowflake Royal]

A decade of total poo does that to attendances.

[Royal_jimmy]

If we are doing well then the fans will return. We can have 20k+ attendances but averaging 8 home wins a season for the last 10 years isn't inspiring.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

If we are doing well then the fans will return. We can have 20k+ attendances but averaging 8 home wins a season for the last 10 years isn't inspiring.

That's it really.

A mate of mine supports Bradford City and he always rags on us for having "poor" home support for the division we play in. I've explained several times that, when you see the same dross without much success season after season, attendances are going to dwindle.

He never understood it until this season where Bradford's home form has been poor which has seen their attendances go from £18k at the top of League One to more like £10k in League Two. Good support for where they play, but probably the fact season tickets are like £175 a season might have something to do with it.

[Elm Park Kid]

If we are doing well then the fans will return. We can have 20k+ attendances but averaging 8 home wins a season for the last 10 years isn't inspiring.

That's it really.

A mate of mine supports Bradford City and he always rags on us for having "poor" home support for the division we play in. I've explained several times that, when you see the same dross without much success season after season, attendances are going to dwindle.

He never understood it until this season where Bradford's home form has been poor which has seen their attendances go from £18k at the top of League One to more like £10k in League Two. Good support for where they play, but probably the fact season tickets are like £175 a season might have something to do with it.

They also have a central ground location.

The thing with watching Reading is that pretty much everything surrounding the game is also a bit crap. Getting there and back is a pain and there's no local pub to go before/after to wait for the traffic to subside. I'm very much in the camp that I go to games because it's a good way of spending time with my mates/family - no mates/family and I doubt I would ever make the effort to go to another Reading game in person again.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

If we are doing well then the fans will return. We can have 20k+ attendances but averaging 8 home wins a season for the last 10 years isn't inspiring.

That's it really.

A mate of mine supports Bradford City and he always rags on us for having "poor" home support for the division we play in. I've explained several times that, when you see the same dross without much success season after season, attendances are going to dwindle.

He never understood it until this season where Bradford's home form has been poor which has seen their attendances go from £18k at the top of League One to more like £10k in League Two. Good support for where they play, but probably the fact season tickets are like £175 a season might have something to do with it.

They also have a central ground location.

The thing with watching Reading is that pretty much everything surrounding the game is also a bit crap. Getting there and back is a pain and there's no local pub to go before/after to wait for the traffic to subside. I'm very much in the camp that I go to games because it's a good way of spending time with my mates/family - no mates/family and I doubt I would ever make the effort to go to another Reading game in person again.

It was obviously designed based on it was "easier" for fans to get to because basically everyone owns a car these days and the ground is only about a mile and a half off the M4 as it is. But yeah our ground is well out of the town centre and with very little way of getting there feasibly without driving really as it's just a big industrial estate around really. It seems most modern grounds are designed like that these days, Bolton's ground is basically next to the M62 for example as well as Elland Road being half a mile off the M621 as well.

[Elm Park Kid]

That's it really.

A mate of mine supports Bradford City and he always rags on us for having "poor" home support for the division we play in. I've explained several times that, when you see the same dross without much success season after season, attendances are going to dwindle.

He never understood it until this season where Bradford's home form has been poor which has seen their attendances go from £18k at the top of League One to more like £10k in League Two. Good support for where they play, but probably the fact season tickets are like £175 a season might have something to do with it.

They also have a central ground location.

The thing with watching Reading is that pretty much everything surrounding the game is also a bit crap. Getting there and back is a pain and there's no local pub to go before/after to wait for the traffic to subside. I'm very much in the camp that I go to games because it's a good way of spending time with my mates/family - no mates/family and I doubt I would ever make the effort to go to another Reading game in person again.

It was obviously designed based on it was "easier" for fans to get to because basically everyone owns a car these days and the ground is only about a mile and a half off the M4 as it is. But yeah our ground is well out of the town centre and with very little way of getting there feasibly without driving really as it's just a big industrial estate around really. It seems most modern grounds are designed like that these days, Bolton's ground is basically next to the M62 for example as well as Elland Road being half a mile off the M621 as well.

The point is though that a lot of fans want to drink.

[Hound]

Do wonder if there is any scope to have somewhere around the Kenner island area for a pub or two, as that continues to grow and develop. Could cater for green park housing during the week as well

It isn’t that far a walk (or bus) from town to there, and then not too bad a walk from there to the ground. But it’s too far for the majority to walk from town to the stadium without a stop

[YorkshireRoyal99]

They also have a central ground location.

The thing with watching Reading is that pretty much everything surrounding the game is also a bit crap. Getting there and back is a pain and there's no local pub to go before/after to wait for the traffic to subside. I'm very much in the camp that I go to games because it's a good way of spending time with my mates/family - no mates/family and I doubt I would ever make the effort to go to another Reading game in person again.

It was obviously designed based on it was "easier" for fans to get to because basically everyone owns a car these days and the ground is only about a mile and a half off the M4 as it is. But yeah our ground is well out of the town centre and with very little way of getting there feasibly without driving really as it's just a big industrial estate around really. It seems most modern grounds are designed like that these days, Bolton's ground is basically next to the M62 for example as well as Elland Road being half a mile off the M621 as well.

The point is though that a lot of fans want to drink.

Yeah I know what the point is but the pro's for the club is that most people get around via cars now so the club will still be able to have fans travel to games whilst people are less likely to drink due to them driving so it potentially causes less issues through irresponsible drinkers. I understand your point, it doesn't help the fans, but the club will likely view it more positively.

[Elm Park Kid]

It was obviously designed based on it was "easier" for fans to get to because basically everyone owns a car these days and the ground is only about a mile and a half off the M4 as it is. But yeah our ground is well out of the town centre and with very little way of getting there feasibly without driving really as it's just a big industrial estate around really. It seems most modern grounds are designed like that these days, Bolton's ground is basically next to the M62 for example as well as Elland Road being half a mile off the M621 as well.

The point is though that a lot of fans want to drink.

Yeah I know what the point is but the pro's for the club is that most people get around via cars now so the club will still be able to have fans travel to games whilst people are less likely to drink due to them driving so it potentially causes less issues through irresponsible drinkers. I understand your point, it doesn't help the fans, but the club will likely view it more positively.

I disagree - alcohol and football are inherently linked. A lot of people start following clubs (especially young men) as it's a fun way of going out drinking with your mates. I would argue that a reasonable amount of atmosphere at the ground comes from people who have had a few beers to lose their inhibitions, and one of the reasons that we are known for having a poor atmosphere is that lack of opportunity to drink before.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

The point is though that a lot of fans want to drink.

Yeah I know what the point is but the pro's for the club is that most people get around via cars now so the club will still be able to have fans travel to games whilst people are less likely to drink due to them driving so it potentially causes less issues through irresponsible drinkers. I understand your point, it doesn't help the fans, but the club will likely view it more positively.

I disagree - alcohol and football are inherently linked. A lot of people start following clubs (especially young men) as it's a fun way of going out drinking with your mates. I would argue that a reasonable amount of atmosphere at the ground comes from people who have had a few beers to lose their inhibitions, and one of the reasons that we are known for having a poor atmosphere is that lack of opportunity to drink before.

I don't disagree, it's part of the reasons I will watch us away from home and take the train, however the club will still feel it's appropriate for fans to get to the game so that attendances don't suffer whilst looking to cut down on the amount of issues caused before, during and after the game due to alcohol. Not beneficial from the fans perspective, but it is from the clubs point of view.

[muirinho]

Yeah I know what the point is but the pro's for the club is that most people get around via cars now so the club will still be able to have fans travel to games whilst people are less likely to drink due to them driving so it potentially causes less issues through irresponsible drinkers. I understand your point, it doesn't help the fans, but the club will likely view it more positively.

I disagree - alcohol and football are inherently linked. A lot of people start following clubs (especially young men) as it's a fun way of going out drinking with your mates. I would argue that a reasonable amount of atmosphere at the ground comes from people who have had a few beers to lose their inhibitions, and one of the reasons that we are known for having a poor atmosphere is that lack of opportunity to drink before.

I don't disagree, it's part of the reasons I will watch us away from home and take the train, however the club will still feel it's appropriate for fans to get to the game so that attendances don't suffer whilst looking to cut down on the amount of issues caused before, during and after the game due to alcohol. Not beneficial from the fans perspective, but it is from the clubs point of view.

I'm not sure that's actually the club's point of view - more like that's the view of people involved in the planning process for new stadiums - i.e. the local council, the police, local residents etc etc.

I think it would actually be extremely difficult to get PP for a stadium that was slap bang in town, or in the middle of a residential area these days. Best you can hope for is that the town expands to cover the area the stadium is in.

The club is actively subsidising the buses still (amazed they haven't dropped that as too expensive in these days of penury) which enables more people to get hammered in town and then shuttle out. As well as setting up Royal Rendezvous, so people can drink outside the stadium, and so on.

I think the football is more an issue than the lack of pubs.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I disagree - alcohol and football are inherently linked. A lot of people start following clubs (especially young men) as it's a fun way of going out drinking with your mates. I would argue that a reasonable amount of atmosphere at the ground comes from people who have had a few beers to lose their inhibitions, and one of the reasons that we are known for having a poor atmosphere is that lack of opportunity to drink before.

I don't disagree, it's part of the reasons I will watch us away from home and take the train, however the club will still feel it's appropriate for fans to get to the game so that attendances don't suffer whilst looking to cut down on the amount of issues caused before, during and after the game due to alcohol. Not beneficial from the fans perspective, but it is from the clubs point of view.

I'm not sure that's actually the club's point of view - more like that's the view of people involved in the planning process for new stadiums - i.e. the local council, the police, local residents etc etc.

I think it would actually be extremely difficult to get PP for a stadium that was slap bang in town, or in the middle of a residential area these days. Best you can hope for is that the town expands to cover the area the stadium is in.

The club is actively subsidising the buses still (amazed they haven't dropped that as too expensive in these days of penury) which enables more people to get hammered in town and then shuttle out. As well as setting up Royal Rendezvous, so people can drink outside the stadium, and so on.

I think the football is more an issue than the lack of pubs.

Again, I don't personally disagree, but from the club's perspective, it is a benefit that more people can access the stadium through the most popular form of travel (car) as well as having less of an issue that is alcohol-related. As you say, you wouldn't necessarily get planning permission in the centre of a town for a new stadium and yes, they've put things in place where people can still drink however much they want to as well. It obviously wasn't always a benefit for the club, people enjoy drinking at games, but relocating the stadium provided a couple of benefits for them.

But yes, I think the football is to blame rather than the actual boozing.