MATCHWATCH : Wigan Athletic (a)

[Franchise FC]

Start to the season reminds me very much of paunos first season.

Actually, I was thinking the exact opposite.

Then we pretty much scored every chance we had to win
This time we seem to be missing a fair few but still winning

Agree about the solidity at the back though (with the three notable exceptions)

[YorkshireRoyal99]

All depends on if you think GD will come into things. If we'd scored the sitters we've missed, we have a GD of 0 now.

Unless the opposition had tucked away all their chances too….

Well quite, all if buts and maybes and fully expect to miss sitters occasionally.

I'm actually encouraged by it as it shows we are able to create a decent number of clean cut chances, whilst in most games not giving too many away (bar the 3 stuffings) - so over time if we continue making these sort of chances we'll score more. Take Ince's header on Saturday 99 times out of 100 that goes in - better for it not to go in at 1-0 up than 1-0 down even if it does make the last few minutes more nervous than they could have been.

Yeah it is encouraging but it would be nice to win games by a more comfortable margin. Obviously we aren't going to score every chance, but don't want to get into the habit of missing easier chances, as it will end up costing us in games eventually and potentially turn 3 points into 1. It's obviously a minor criticism because we are still winning games, which is the most important factor, it's just something to improve on in games.

[Snowball]

Sort of two Reading FCs

Which do you prefer?

P4 W0 D0 L4 00-12
or
P6 W6 D0 L0 10-02



Away, 6 points from 5 games, which is OK.
Bizarre, if we had drawn all six we'd be creaming it.

Home 12 points from 5 games, pretty much promotion form (if we only look at results)


Our current ppg equates to an 83-points season, and though we have hardly been "impressive" yet, we have SARR, Ejaria to come back, Meite to get to max fitness/sharpness, CARROLL, Long, and lots of improvement in terms of players getting to know each other.

We have yet to see a striker find a purple patch like Joao did.

If that happens we could comfortably cement a top eight spot.

This, surely, is a team that should improve?

P4 W0 D0 L4 00-12 (Blackpool (19th), Sheffield Utd (top), Rotherham (8th) Away, Sunderland (5th) Home)
or
P6 W6 D0 L0 10-02 (Blackburn (7th), Stoke (14th), Cardiff (18th), Boro (22nd), Wigan (12th) Away, and Millwall (13th) Away.

[Snowflake Royal]

First match I missed in a couple of years I think, just found out the result. NICE!

Can we get a BTGF with ratings please, Ian, someone, anyone?

Cba to start a thread, and I doubt you'd get many join in. But here you go.

Lumley - 6 didn’t have a save to make, but beaten twice by off target shots that would have gone in if they were on target, no other opportunities to excel
Hoilett - 6 some good work going forward and defensively, but missing a lot, need players like him to do more to keep the ball
Rahman - 6 ok. Had a 5 minute spell where he was a liability
Yiadom - 7 solid performance, still drove forward a bit despite being RCB
Holmes - 7 defended well, but we seemed to go long and direct more, miss his short passing out of defence
McIntyre - 6 defensively a bit weak, did some good work in their half a couple of times, but not his best game
Hendrick - 6 involved plenty, but started very badly, should have hit the target, but improved 2nd half
Hutchinson - 7 probably the busiest midfielder, lots of hard work and plenty of involvement
Fornah - 6 tidy on the ball, but to be honest, I forgot he was there a lot. Midfield needs to be far better at retaining possession
Ince - 8 scored, nearly scored, the usual running, chasing etc. The reason we won
Joao - 6 nothing really fell for him. Constantly surrounded by 2 or 3 defenders. He's not going to win a lot of headers, because he's always looking to bring it down or turn. And if he does win a header, who is it going to? Plenty of closing down and defensive work. He needs to play in a side that has more possession and supports him better.

Meite - 7 better at the chasing down and pressing game than Joao, got a 1 on 1, but fluffed. Still good signs being back from injury

Loum - 6 looked a little lost and off the pace, an enigma

Carroll n/a

Not a great performance, but resilient. We won. We should have scored more. But we have got to stop giving up so much of the game, and to start faster and harder. We start so passive.

[Snowflake Royal]

All depends on if you think GD will come into things. If we'd scored the sitters we've missed, we have a GD of 0 now.

Unless the opposition had tucked away all their chances too….

Well quite, all if buts and maybes and fully expect to miss sitters occasionally.

I'm actually encouraged by it as it shows we are able to create a decent number of clean cut chances, whilst in most games not giving too many away (bar the 3 stuffings) - so over time if we continue making these sort of chances we'll score more. Take Ince's header on Saturday 99 times out of 100 that goes in - better for it not to go in at 1-0 up than 1-0 down even if it does make the last few minutes more nervous than they could have been.

I recall you making the same argument in Pauno's first season, saying that we'd continue to be tight at the back and score more. In fact the reverse was true.

With as little of the ball as we have, I don’t think we're likely to start scorinv many more and I do think we're likely to concede in more games.

The averages would support that.

[Stranded]

Unless the opposition had tucked away all their chances too….

Well quite, all if buts and maybes and fully expect to miss sitters occasionally.

I'm actually encouraged by it as it shows we are able to create a decent number of clean cut chances, whilst in most games not giving too many away (bar the 3 stuffings) - so over time if we continue making these sort of chances we'll score more. Take Ince's header on Saturday 99 times out of 100 that goes in - better for it not to go in at 1-0 up than 1-0 down even if it does make the last few minutes more nervous than they could have been.

I recall you making the same argument in Pauno's first season, saying that we'd continue to be tight at the back and score more. In fact the reverse was true.

With as little of the ball as we have, I don’t think we're likely to start scorinv many more and I do think we're likely to concede in more games.

The averages would support that.

I'll have to take your word on that as I have literally no recollection of what I may or may not have typed 2 years back.

I'm not saying we'll score more, I'm just saying IF we continue to create big chances like we did on Saturday and at Millwall we should get 1 or 2 more than we have seen. Our shot converstion rate is currently at 10% which is a little on the low side, which either suggests we are missing chances we shoulds score or are taking shots that we shouldn't.

[Hound]

Possibly more reminiscent of the Stam season 1 where we seemed to either do just enough to win a game or get thumped

Same good home record, mixed with some good away results but some awful ones

Same small squad relying on some experienced campaigners and being well organised and seemingly a good spirit

Same constant feel it’s about to fall to shit when we get worked out

Obviously opposite ends of the spectrum style wise though

[Millsy]

First match I missed in a couple of years I think, just found out the result. NICE!

Can we get a BTGF with ratings please, Ian, someone, anyone?

Cba to start a thread, and I doubt you'd get many join in. But here you go.

Lumley - 6 didn’t have a save to make, but beaten twice by off target shots that would have gone in if they were on target, no other opportunities to excel
Hoilett - 6 some good work going forward and defensively, but missing a lot, need players like him to do more to keep the ball
Rahman - 6 ok. Had a 5 minute spell where he was a liability
Yiadom - 7 solid performance, still drove forward a bit despite being RCB
Holmes - 7 defended well, but we seemed to go long and direct more, miss his short passing out of defence
McIntyre - 6 defensively a bit weak, did some good work in their half a couple of times, but not his best game
Hendrick - 6 involved plenty, but started very badly, should have hit the target, but improved 2nd half
Hutchinson - 7 probably the busiest midfielder, lots of hard work and plenty of involvement
Fornah - 6 tidy on the ball, but to be honest, I forgot he was there a lot. Midfield needs to be far better at retaining possession
Ince - 8 scored, nearly scored, the usual running, chasing etc. The reason we won
Joao - 6 nothing really fell for him. Constantly surrounded by 2 or 3 defenders. He's not going to win a lot of headers, because he's always looking to bring it down or turn. And if he does win a header, who is it going to? Plenty of closing down and defensive work. He needs to play in a side that has more possession and supports him better.

Meite - 7 better at the chasing down and pressing game than Joao, got a 1 on 1, but fluffed. Still good signs being back from injury

Loum - 6 looked a little lost and off the pace, an enigma

Carroll n/a

Not a great performance, but resilient. We won. We should have scored more. But we have got to stop giving up so much of the game, and to start faster and harder. We start so passive.

Brilliant thank you Ian. Really helpful.

[Nameless]

First match I missed in a couple of years I think, just found out the result. NICE!

Can we get a BTGF with ratings please, Ian, someone, anyone?

Cba to start a thread, and I doubt you'd get many join in. But here you go.

Lumley - 6 didn’t have a save to make, but beaten twice by off target shots that would have gone in if they were on target, no other opportunities to excel
Hoilett - 6 some good work going forward and defensively, but missing a lot, need players like him to do more to keep the ball
Rahman - 6 ok. Had a 5 minute spell where he was a liability
Yiadom - 7 solid performance, still drove forward a bit despite being RCB
Holmes - 7 defended well, but we seemed to go long and direct more, miss his short passing out of defence
McIntyre - 6 defensively a bit weak, did some good work in their half a couple of times, but not his best game
Hendrick - 6 involved plenty, but started very badly, should have hit the target, but improved 2nd half
Hutchinson - 7 probably the busiest midfielder, lots of hard work and plenty of involvement
Fornah - 6 tidy on the ball, but to be honest, I forgot he was there a lot. Midfield needs to be far better at retaining possession
Ince - 8 scored, nearly scored, the usual running, chasing etc. The reason we won
Joao - 6 nothing really fell for him. Constantly surrounded by 2 or 3 defenders. He's not going to win a lot of headers, because he's always looking to bring it down or turn. And if he does win a header, who is it going to? Plenty of closing down and defensive work. He needs to play in a side that has more possession and supports him better.

Meite - 7 better at the chasing down and pressing game than Joao, got a 1 on 1, but fluffed. Still good signs being back from injury

Loum - 6 looked a little lost and off the pace, an enigma

Carroll n/a

Not a great performance, but resilient. We won. We should have scored more. But we have got to stop giving up so much of the game, and to start faster and harder. We start so passive.

Brilliant thank you Ian. Really helpful.

I think I get the Lumley comment but it seems incredibly harsh to criticise him for not saving shots that were off target on the basis that if they had been on target he might not have saved them !

[Millsy]

Cba to start a thread, and I doubt you'd get many join in. But here you go.

Lumley - 6 didn’t have a save to make, but beaten twice by off target shots that would have gone in if they were on target, no other opportunities to excel
Hoilett - 6 some good work going forward and defensively, but missing a lot, need players like him to do more to keep the ball
Rahman - 6 ok. Had a 5 minute spell where he was a liability
Yiadom - 7 solid performance, still drove forward a bit despite being RCB
Holmes - 7 defended well, but we seemed to go long and direct more, miss his short passing out of defence
McIntyre - 6 defensively a bit weak, did some good work in their half a couple of times, but not his best game
Hendrick - 6 involved plenty, but started very badly, should have hit the target, but improved 2nd half
Hutchinson - 7 probably the busiest midfielder, lots of hard work and plenty of involvement
Fornah - 6 tidy on the ball, but to be honest, I forgot he was there a lot. Midfield needs to be far better at retaining possession
Ince - 8 scored, nearly scored, the usual running, chasing etc. The reason we won
Joao - 6 nothing really fell for him. Constantly surrounded by 2 or 3 defenders. He's not going to win a lot of headers, because he's always looking to bring it down or turn. And if he does win a header, who is it going to? Plenty of closing down and defensive work. He needs to play in a side that has more possession and supports him better.

Meite - 7 better at the chasing down and pressing game than Joao, got a 1 on 1, but fluffed. Still good signs being back from injury

Loum - 6 looked a little lost and off the pace, an enigma

Carroll n/a

Not a great performance, but resilient. We won. We should have scored more. But we have got to stop giving up so much of the game, and to start faster and harder. We start so passive.

Brilliant thank you Ian. Really helpful.

I think I get the Lumley comment but it seems incredibly harsh to criticise him for not saving shots that were off target on the basis that if they had been on target he might not have saved them !

I think Ian's comments are an incitement to violence. I know he's not mentioned violence in any of the ratings, but if the topic had come up he'd have been doing just that.



Only kidding, seriously thanks again Ian for being the only one to take the time to help out those of us unable to watch.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Cba to start a thread, and I doubt you'd get many join in. But here you go.

Lumley - 6 didn’t have a save to make, but beaten twice by off target shots that would have gone in if they were on target, no other opportunities to excel
Hoilett - 6 some good work going forward and defensively, but missing a lot, need players like him to do more to keep the ball
Rahman - 6 ok. Had a 5 minute spell where he was a liability
Yiadom - 7 solid performance, still drove forward a bit despite being RCB
Holmes - 7 defended well, but we seemed to go long and direct more, miss his short passing out of defence
McIntyre - 6 defensively a bit weak, did some good work in their half a couple of times, but not his best game
Hendrick - 6 involved plenty, but started very badly, should have hit the target, but improved 2nd half
Hutchinson - 7 probably the busiest midfielder, lots of hard work and plenty of involvement
Fornah - 6 tidy on the ball, but to be honest, I forgot he was there a lot. Midfield needs to be far better at retaining possession
Ince - 8 scored, nearly scored, the usual running, chasing etc. The reason we won
Joao - 6 nothing really fell for him. Constantly surrounded by 2 or 3 defenders. He's not going to win a lot of headers, because he's always looking to bring it down or turn. And if he does win a header, who is it going to? Plenty of closing down and defensive work. He needs to play in a side that has more possession and supports him better.

Meite - 7 better at the chasing down and pressing game than Joao, got a 1 on 1, but fluffed. Still good signs being back from injury

Loum - 6 looked a little lost and off the pace, an enigma

Carroll n/a

Not a great performance, but resilient. We won. We should have scored more. But we have got to stop giving up so much of the game, and to start faster and harder. We start so passive.

Brilliant thank you Ian. Really helpful.

I think I get the Lumley comment but it seems incredibly harsh to criticise him for not saving shots that were off target on the basis that if they had been on target he might not have saved them !

Yeah agree, tough to criticise a goalkeeper for off target shots. I get the point being made, just don't think it stacks up to anything.

Agree with most of the rest however. I don't think Loum was anywhere near fit enough for this game, let alone the Sunderland one, might take him longer than anticipated to get back to fitness. Hopefully a good bit of training/game time away with his national side might help his sharpness on his return to us.

[Sutekh]

Brilliant thank you Ian. Really helpful.

I think I get the Lumley comment but it seems incredibly harsh to criticise him for not saving shots that were off target on the basis that if they had been on target he might not have saved them !

Yeah agree, tough to criticise a goalkeeper for off target shots. I get the point being made, just don't think it stacks up to anything.

Agree with most of the rest however. I don't think Loum was anywhere near fit enough for this game, let alone the Sunderland one, might take him longer than anticipated to get back to fitness. Hopefully a good bit of training/game time away with his national side might help his sharpness on his return to us.

Loum (Senegal), Hendrick (Ireland), Hoilett (Canada) and Rahman (Ghana) are the 4 senior professionals called up this break. So there’s still a good few for the management to work with in training. Let’s hope no-one gets injured.

Travel might also be an issue for Rahman, Hoilett and Loum, Senegal are scheduled to play away in Bolivia then away in Iran and Ghana are playing away v Brazil and Nicaragua. Canada have a home game with Uruguay and a trip to Qatar.

[Snowflake Royal]

Cba to start a thread, and I doubt you'd get many join in. But here you go.

Lumley - 6 didn’t have a save to make, but beaten twice by off target shots that would have gone in if they were on target, no other opportunities to excel
Hoilett - 6 some good work going forward and defensively, but missing a lot, need players like him to do more to keep the ball
Rahman - 6 ok. Had a 5 minute spell where he was a liability
Yiadom - 7 solid performance, still drove forward a bit despite being RCB
Holmes - 7 defended well, but we seemed to go long and direct more, miss his short passing out of defence
McIntyre - 6 defensively a bit weak, did some good work in their half a couple of times, but not his best game
Hendrick - 6 involved plenty, but started very badly, should have hit the target, but improved 2nd half
Hutchinson - 7 probably the busiest midfielder, lots of hard work and plenty of involvement
Fornah - 6 tidy on the ball, but to be honest, I forgot he was there a lot. Midfield needs to be far better at retaining possession
Ince - 8 scored, nearly scored, the usual running, chasing etc. The reason we won
Joao - 6 nothing really fell for him. Constantly surrounded by 2 or 3 defenders. He's not going to win a lot of headers, because he's always looking to bring it down or turn. And if he does win a header, who is it going to? Plenty of closing down and defensive work. He needs to play in a side that has more possession and supports him better.

Meite - 7 better at the chasing down and pressing game than Joao, got a 1 on 1, but fluffed. Still good signs being back from injury

Loum - 6 looked a little lost and off the pace, an enigma

Carroll n/a

Not a great performance, but resilient. We won. We should have scored more. But we have got to stop giving up so much of the game, and to start faster and harder. We start so passive.

Brilliant thank you Ian. Really helpful.

I think I get the Lumley comment but it seems incredibly harsh to criticise him for not saving shots that were off target on the basis that if they had been on target he might not have saved them !

Well I'm not saying he might not have saved them, I'm categorically saying he wouldn’t have saved them, because they both had him beaten.

I also still gave him a 6, so it's not like I even marked him down. It's just commentary.

[Royal Rother]

I'm categorically saying he wouldn’t have saved them, because they both had him beaten.

Odd thing to say.

If they had realigned and put them on target then they might not have been just inside the woodwork, they may have been straight at him.

[Sutekh]

I think I get the Lumley comment but it seems incredibly harsh to criticise him for not saving shots that were off target on the basis that if they had been on target he might not have saved them !

Yeah agree, tough to criticise a goalkeeper for off target shots. I get the point being made, just don't think it stacks up to anything.

Agree with most of the rest however. I don't think Loum was anywhere near fit enough for this game, let alone the Sunderland one, might take him longer than anticipated to get back to fitness. Hopefully a good bit of training/game time away with his national side might help his sharpness on his return to us.

Loum (Senegal), Hendrick (Ireland), Hoilett (Canada) and Rahman (Ghana) are the 4 senior professionals called up this break. So there’s still a good few for the management to work with in training. Let’s hope no-one gets injured.

Travel might also be an issue for Rahman, Hoilett and Loum, Senegal are scheduled to play away in Bolivia then away in Iran and Ghana are playing away v Brazil and Nicaragua. Canada have a home game with Uruguay and a trip to Qatar.

In addition, Amadou Mbengue (Senegal), Mamadi Camara (Guinea-Bissau), John Clarke (Ireland) and Michael Craig (Scotland) are the younger players that have been called up.

Finally both outward loanees, Luke Southwood (N.Ireland) and George Puscas (Romania), are on international duty for this break.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I think I get the Lumley comment but it seems incredibly harsh to criticise him for not saving shots that were off target on the basis that if they had been on target he might not have saved them !

Yeah agree, tough to criticise a goalkeeper for off target shots. I get the point being made, just don't think it stacks up to anything.

Agree with most of the rest however. I don't think Loum was anywhere near fit enough for this game, let alone the Sunderland one, might take him longer than anticipated to get back to fitness. Hopefully a good bit of training/game time away with his national side might help his sharpness on his return to us.

Loum (Senegal), Hendrick (Ireland), Hoilett (Canada) and Rahman (Ghana) are the 4 senior professionals called up this break. So there’s still a good few for the management to work with in training. Let’s hope no-one gets injured.

Travel might also be an issue for Rahman, Hoilett and Loum, Senegal are scheduled to play away in Bolivia then away in Iran and Ghana are playing away v Brazil and Nicaragua. Canada have a home game with Uruguay and a trip to Qatar.

Yeah I saw a post the other day saying Ince "only" had 16 senior players to work with during the International break, which is pretty much what we've been operating with for the majority of the season, less if you include pre-season as well, so it's certainly a good enough size to be working with closely as well as throwing some U23 players in to bolster the numbers as well.

[Millsy]

I'm categorically saying he wouldn’t have saved them, because they both had him beaten.

Odd thing to say.

If they had realigned and put them on target then they might not have been just inside the woodwork, they may have been straight at him.

TBH I don't think it's an odd thing to say. Admittedly I didn't watch the match so I don't know how it relates to Lumley's performance, but it's pretty common for keepers to be soundly beaten and be lucky that the target was missed. Of course there are the marginal cases you're talking about but there are plenty of times a keeper is just positioned wrongly or wrong-footed etc and would be nowhere near it. I don't think it reflects badly on the lad tbh - much as I gloated when he made the meta-cockups I don't think he's done anything wrong since.

Having said that I wouldn't mention it myself, but it's always useful to have a talking point on a forum, or it'd just be a case of "dull game, 6s all round, Ince won it for us" And most importantly I'd have nothing to say at all in this thread, and now I do.

[Snowflake Royal]

Oh look, RR wants to join in the people more interested in having a pop than posting their own view.

[Royal Rother]

I'm categorically saying he wouldn’t have saved them, because they both had him beaten.

Odd thing to say.

If they had realigned and put them on target then they might not have been just inside the woodwork, they may have been straight at him.

TBH I don't think it's an odd thing to say. Admittedly I didn't watch the match so I don't know how it relates to Lumley's performance, but it's pretty common for keepers to be soundly beaten and be lucky that the target was missed. Of course there are the marginal cases you're talking about but there are plenty of times a keeper is just positioned wrongly or wrong-footed etc and would be nowhere near it. I don't think it reflects badly on the lad tbh - much as I gloated when he made the meta-cockups I don't think he's done anything wrong since.

Having said that I wouldn't mention it myself, but it's always useful to have a talking point on a forum, or it'd just be a case of "dull game, 6s all round, Ince won it for us" And most importantly I'd have nothing to say at all in this thread, and now I do.

Glad to have been of help.

[Stranded]

I'm categorically saying he wouldn’t have saved them, because they both had him beaten.

Odd thing to say.

If they had realigned and put them on target then they might not have been just inside the woodwork, they may have been straight at him.

TBH I don't think it's an odd thing to say. Admittedly I didn't watch the match so I don't know how it relates to Lumley's performance, but it's pretty common for keepers to be soundly beaten and be lucky that the target was missed. Of course there are the marginal cases you're talking about but there are plenty of times a keeper is just positioned wrongly or wrong-footed etc and would be nowhere near it. I don't think it reflects badly on the lad tbh - much as I gloated when he made the meta-cockups I don't think he's done anything wrong since.

Having said that I wouldn't mention it myself, but it's always useful to have a talking point on a forum, or it'd just be a case of "dull game, 6s all round, Ince won it for us" And most importantly I'd have nothing to say at all in this thread, and now I do.

Lumley has been great for me in terms of how little he has had to do - this speaks highly for his organisational skills, he is always talking to and marshalling his defence to help snuff out any danger before he has to deal with it and, for the most part, when he has had to deal with something he's done so well.

I kind of get Ian's point but it's a tough one to judge but I think on balance if either of those headers had been on target where the Wigan player planned to put them, then he's beaten - as pretty much any keeper would have been.