Back From the Game

[brendywendy]

we'll go unbeaten till the end of the season, and everyone will be going on about europe again.

[International Royal]

This thread is hard to believe. We get a much needed point away from home in a tricky fixture to stop a bad run. We give a few guys a run out looking at the bigger picture for next season and many have the hump because we can't beat Charlton.

I believe that next season will be tougher than this one, heaven forbid if we get into a survival srap. We are 9th on merit with a reasonable run in and have only been 'doubled' twice all season (Arse & L'Pool).

Also the injuries to real key players has been overlooked. Last season we were so fortunate with injuries. Doyle & Kitson have missed a shedload of games bewteen them, Convey most of the season, the right flank out (Little and Murty) and Sonko as a rock in defence for how many games now.

[brendywendy]

point away at charlton in middle of relegation dogfight after 3 wins on the bounce= good result
-no matter which team we put out

narrowly beaten at home by an in form liverpool team, who scored with their only two shots, having beaten them on all the stats, with a very good, and unlucky display = good performance

9th place in our 1st ever top flight campaign, with 5 to play and with our run in = fantastic seasons work,
could still possibly push for 6/7th

european football unless its champions league = rubbish
good chance for the reserves though if we do by some miracle make it.

coppells decision to use some of the remainder of games to look at the options we have, and make decisions over contracts/where to strengthen= entirely sensible

these boards = annoyingly negative.

[BR2]

Like West Ham on New Year's Day Charlton were there for the taking

There for the taking?

3 wins at home in a row.
5 clean sheets in their last 6 matches.
5 unbeaten (home and away)

Is that really the recent form of a team who are "there for the taking"?

When you take into account the opposition they've played in those games and the way that our weakened side pegged them back, I think you have to admit that it repersented one of our easier games of the season, and therefore three points were certainly there for the taking.

And when Charlton take into account the form we have been in they would have said that we were there for the taking.

Regardless who Charlton have faced in recent weeks, they have been in decent form and picking up results. That is not a team who are "there for the taking".

A team who haven't won in 6 games on the other hand.........

Wycombe,
They were there for the taking last night by virtue of the way they have been playing and more importantly in the game itself.
My mate has been to their last two games (which will have been scouted by the club) and says that they were abysmal and nervous with a jammy penalty given against Wigan without which they would still be in the bottom three.
It seems as though Wigan were the equivalent of us in that fixture-did everything but score.

I haven't joined in the "non-triers" aspect as our players clearly did try but had no guile around the box,something which I feel Kitson would have brought to the game.
Some players (Drogba,Gerrard,Foster at Watford,Jagielka,Ronaldo etc) add so much to a team's shape and style and performance on the pitch and I just happen to think that Kitson is our version from the point of view of both defence and attack.
If he had played all season I think we might have got a EUFA Cup spot but (using the current conspiracy vogue) the club probably made sure that he kept on getting injured.

BTW Charlton haven't beaten a side in the top half all season.

[brendywendy]

plenty of people were moaning after liverpool that kiston and doyle had no guile around the box, and that lita should be recalled

you just cant win

[Wycombe Royal]

I haven't joined in the "non-triers" aspect as our players clearly did try but had no guile around the box,something which I feel Kitson would have brought to the game.

Just like he did against Liverpool or Portsmouth or Tottenham. Face it, Long last night was as effective as either Kitson or Doyle have been recently. Yes they may be the better players, but they aren't performing at the moment and it is only right that others get the opportunity when that happens. Otherwise the "squad" players will think "why am I here, he's not performing but I'm still not getting a chance". That sort of thing then filters out to players and hampers our chances of signing new players.

By sending out the message that RFC are a club that drop players who aren't performing for those on the bench will help attract those players who may not be signed as an immediate first choice as well as keeping those players who are in the team on their toes in the knowledge that if they don't perform the subs bench may be beckoning.

[BR2]

plenty of people were moaning after liverpool that kiston and doyle had no guile around the box, and that lita should be recalled

you just cant win

We weren't but of course Al Kakouri and Diawarra are so much better than Hyppia and Carragher aren't they?

[Schards#2]

plenty of people were moaning after liverpool that kiston and doyle had no guile around the box, and that lita should be recalled

you just cant win

Perhaps someone should set up a message board where these differing points of view can be aired and discussed.

Or, alternatively, we should accept that every decision the club, manager and players make is right without question.

[brendywendy]

plenty of people were moaning after liverpool that kiston and doyle had no guile around the box, and that lita should be recalled

you just cant win

We weren't but of course Al Kakouri and Diawarra are so much better than Hyppia and Carragher aren't they?

you werent, but then you dont speak for everyone on these boards
or was it a royal we?

plenty of people have been this weekend.and before. on the boards and at the games.

i would get some quotes but i cant be arsed

[Hoop Blah]

I haven't joined in the "non-triers" aspect as our players clearly did try but had no guile around the box,something which I feel Kitson would have brought to the game.

Just like he did against Liverpool or Portsmouth or Tottenham. Face it, Long last night was as effective as either Kitson or Doyle have been recently. Yes they may be the better players, but they aren't performing at the moment and it is only right that others get the opportunity when that happens. Otherwise the "squad" players will think "why am I here, he's not performing but I'm still not getting a chance". That sort of thing then filters out to players and hampers our chances of signing new players.

By sending out the message that RFC are a club that drop players who aren't performing for those on the bench will help attract those players who may not be signed as an immediate first choice as well as keeping those players who are in the team on their toes in the knowledge that if they don't perform the subs bench may be beckoning.

I agree that our squad players need to feel that they are involved and can force their way into the side if they perform well enough.

I don't agree that Kitson was ineffective against Spurs and Liverpool though. As I said after the Spurs game, most of our good work came about when Kitson was involved. I think ability to win and use the ball intelligently is vastly under-rated by many on this board and at games. I think it's because he makes it look simple by bringing others into the game with just a clever touch or a flick. Lita and Long rarely do it, and I've lost count of the number of times Lita just falls to the floor or hunches over the ball trying to win a free kick when at similar times Kits just releases a quick pass to a teammate.

Neither Kitson or Doyle have hit the back of the net recently, so maybe you have an arguement there for introducing Long, but his general play is way off the other two and makes him much more suited to subsitute appearances at the moment.

[brendywendy]

plenty of people were moaning after liverpool that kiston and doyle had no guile around the box, and that lita should be recalled

you just cant win

Perhaps someone should set up a message board where these differing points of view can be aired and discussed.LOL

Or, alternatively, we should accept that every decision the club, manager and players make is right without question.only when i agree with them 100%

and my whole point was that whatever the gaffer does he will be criticsized on these boards, by someone, i wasnt agreeing with either side of the argument.

[Harold]

I think you should all just relax - you guys played well last night - and you'd have won at a canter if the players out there could finish.

I'd be more worried if you weren't creating any chances at all.

[phil in cornwall]

As for substitutions , they do not necessarily improve things as Saturday showed. It could equally be arrgued that to change the pattern and personell of a side that are dominating the game is equally "not trying to 100% to win. Long ( and his inclusion for 90 mins seems to be your main argument that we didn't try to win the the game ) didn't have the best of games but he still should have earned us a penalty late on in the game. Had he been removed whose to say any other contributors would have produced better.

Unfortunately Saturday showed that substitutions DO work. As soon as Pennant and Kuyt came on Liverpool looked a lot more threatening and the two of them combined to score the winning goal.

I cannot see the sense of leaving Kitson and Doyle on the bench last night and not using them. They should have come on to provide 'fresh legs' at least.

[bcubed]

I haven't joined in the "non-triers" aspect as our players clearly did try but had no guile around the box,something which I feel Kitson would have brought to the game.

Just like he did against Liverpool or Portsmouth or Tottenham. Face it, Long last night was as effective as either Kitson or Doyle have been recently. Yes they may be the better players, but they aren't performing at the moment and it is only right that others get the opportunity when that happens. Otherwise the "squad" players will think "why am I here, he's not performing but I'm still not getting a chance". That sort of thing then filters out to players and hampers our chances of signing new players.

By sending out the message that RFC are a club that drop players who aren't performing for those on the bench will help attract those players who may not be signed as an immediate first choice as well as keeping those players who are in the team on their toes in the knowledge that if they don't perform the subs bench may be beckoning.

I agree that our squad players need to feel that they are involved and can force their way into the side if they perform well enough.

I don't agree that Kitson was ineffective against Spurs and Liverpool though. As I said after the Spurs game, most of our good work came about when Kitson was involved. I think ability to win and use the ball intelligently is vastly under-rated by many on this board and at games. I think it's because he makes it look simple by bringing others into the game with just a clever touch or a flick. Lita and Long rarely do it, and I've lost count of the number of times Lita just falls to the floor or hunches over the ball trying to win a free kick when at similar times Kits just releases a quick pass to a teammate.

Neither Kitson or Doyle have hit the back of the net recently, so maybe you have an arguement there for introducing Long, but his general play is way off the other two and makes him much more suited to subsitute appearances at the moment.

I think this is a case of RTGs, as with many on this board. For me Kitson flatters to deceive on many occasions. He likes to create an impression that he is always chasing the game and about to tackle without actually doing so. Faced with his back to goal he also keeps trying to back heel the ball to noone in particular. He tried this at least three times against Liverpool and failed each time.

In contrast Long competes for every challenge and holds the ball up very well. There were a number of headers in the box where he put himself in danger and I rarely see Kitson doing that.

Admittedly Kitson was greatly improved in the second half against Liverpool but Long deserved his chance and didn't let us down.

[BR2]

I haven't joined in the "non-triers" aspect as our players clearly did try but had no guile around the box,something which I feel Kitson would have brought to the game.

Just like he did against Liverpool or Portsmouth or Tottenham. Face it, Long last night was as effective as either Kitson or Doyle have been recently. Yes they may be the better players, but they aren't performing at the moment and it is only right that others get the opportunity when that happens. Otherwise the "squad" players will think "why am I here, he's not performing but I'm still not getting a chance". That sort of thing then filters out to players and hampers our chances of signing new players.

By sending out the message that RFC are a club that drop players who aren't performing for those on the bench will help attract those players who may not be signed as an immediate first choice as well as keeping those players who are in the team on their toes in the knowledge that if they don't perform the subs bench may be beckoning.

I agree that our squad players need to feel that they are involved and can force their way into the side if they perform well enough.

I don't agree that Kitson was ineffective against Spurs and Liverpool though. As I said after the Spurs game, most of our good work came about when Kitson was involved. I think ability to win and use the ball intelligently is vastly under-rated by many on this board and at games. I think it's because he makes it look simple by bringing others into the game with just a clever touch or a flick. Lita and Long rarely do it, and I've lost count of the number of times Lita just falls to the floor or hunches over the ball trying to win a free kick when at similar times Kits just releases a quick pass to a teammate.

Neither Kitson or Doyle have hit the back of the net recently, so maybe you have an arguement there for introducing Long, but his general play is way off the other two and makes him much more suited to subsitute appearances at the moment.

I think this is a case of RTGs, as with many on this board. For me Kitson flatters to deceive on many occasions. He likes to create an impression that he is always chasing the game and about to tackle without actually doing so. Faced with his back to goal he also keeps trying to back heel the ball to noone in particular. He tried this at least three times against Liverpool and failed each time.

In contrast Long competes for every challenge and holds the ball up very well. There were a number of headers in the box where he put himself in danger and I rarely see Kitson doing that.

Admittedly Kitson was greatly improved in the second half against Liverpool but Long deserved his chance and didn't let us down.

Were you at Man City when his great tackle led to one of our goals?
Were you at the home game (? Villa) when he played a superb one-two with Sidwell to create a goal?
Did you read some stats from the club that confirmed he runs further than any Reading player in a game?
We all have RTGs about certain players and you might already gather that Kitson would be the first name on the teamsheet if I had anything to do with it followed by Marcus,Little and Ivar plus 7 others.
At the moment Shane would not be in my first 16 with everyone fit and like quite a few on here feel that a season spent one division down at say Southampton,West Ham or Charlton could do him a lot of good.

[Hoop Blah]

I think this is a case of RTGs, as with many on this board. For me Kitson flatters to deceive on many occasions. He likes to create an impression that he is always chasing the game and about to tackle without actually doing so. Faced with his back to goal he also keeps trying to back heel the ball to noone in particular. He tried this at least three times against Liverpool and failed each time.

In contrast Long competes for every challenge and holds the ball up very well. There were a number of headers in the box where he put himself in danger and I rarely see Kitson doing that.

Admittedly Kitson was greatly improved in the second half against Liverpool but Long deserved his chance and didn't let us down.

As with BR I rate Kitson very highly but I do also recognise his failings. I've berated him a lot in the past when his work rate has decreased. He's always looked better when he's been trying to prove a point and making defenders work harder by chasing them down and putting himself about a bit. I'm not sure he's doing that quite as much now as when he first arrived, but I think thats probably because the defenders at this level cope with it better because they are infinately better footballers.

The big plus when Kitson is in the side is the way he uses the ball. You say he tried a few flicks that didn't come off, well I'd say that they were definately in the minority against Spurs and Liverpool.

I can't understand anyone suggesting that Shane Long holds the ball up well, let alone as well as Kitson. Long will run all day and that coupled with his pace will make him a pain to play against for a defender but he just doesn't keep possession when the ball is played into his feet well enough yet. Long has a bright future but I think it's just that, a future, not the present.

[Archie's penalty]

point away at charlton in middle of relegation dogfight after 3 wins on the bounce= good result
-no matter which team we put out

narrowly beaten at home by an in form liverpool team, who scored with their only two shots, having beaten them on all the stats, with a very good, and unlucky display = good performance

9th place in our 1st ever top flight campaign, with 5 to play and with our run in = fantastic seasons work,
could still possibly push for 6/7th

european football unless its champions league = rubbish
good chance for the reserves though if we do by some miracle make it.

coppells decision to use some of the remainder of games to look at the options we have, and make decisions over contracts/where to strengthen= entirely sensible

these boards = annoyingly negative.

Very very very well put BW - my thoughts exactly. Incredible the criticism on here - hopefully we can maintain the level of intensity of Mon's performance against Fulham on Sat...

[brendywendy]

point away at charlton in middle of relegation dogfight after 3 wins on the bounce= good result
-no matter which team we put out

narrowly beaten at home by an in form liverpool team, who scored with their only two shots, having beaten them on all the stats, with a very good, and unlucky display = good performance

9th place in our 1st ever top flight campaign, with 5 to play and with our run in = fantastic seasons work,
could still possibly push for 6/7th

european football unless its champions league = rubbish
good chance for the reserves though if we do by some miracle make it.

coppells decision to use some of the remainder of games to look at the options we have, and make decisions over contracts/where to strengthen= entirely sensible

these boards = annoyingly negative.

Very very very well put BW - my thoughts exactly. Incredible the criticism on here - hopefully we can maintain the level of intensity of Mon's performance against Fulham on Sat...

why thank you sir.


sometimes people on here just do my ruddy head in!