Embargos, HMRC Payment defaults, non payment of wages, the usual under Dai Wrongge

[Greatwesternline]

Wasn't it in Gulliver's Travels where 2 sets of people spent Years arguing about which end to open a boiled egg?

For some reason, having just read the last couple of pages of posts hoping to find out if we are still embargoed or not, that thought came into my mind........................................................

lol, I just think it's important to get things right, this pace isn't Twitter, its better than that. Twitter is just chock full of wailing fannies jumping on the back of anything and everything, oxf*rd THE EFL!!! Blah blah blah. How about we have some humility and go about things with our heads held high, owning our issues and not proportioning blame on the regulatory bodies. The blame rests solely with Dai, lets keep the EFL out of this.

I actually tried this line of explanation once and some long time posters suggested to me fans had a right to be angry with who they like.

I'd also point out that many people blame Dai for not spending enough money, but the reality is he spent too much money, and trusted the wrong people.

Dai plus an empowered DIrector of Football such as Nicky Hammond i think would have been a great combo.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Wasn't it in Gulliver's Travels where 2 sets of people spent Years arguing about which end to open a boiled egg?

For some reason, having just read the last couple of pages of posts hoping to find out if we are still embargoed or not, that thought came into my mind........................................................

lol, I just think it's important to get things right, this pace isn't Twitter, its better than that. Twitter is just chock full of wailing fannies jumping on the back of anything and everything, oxf*rd THE EFL!!! Blah blah blah. How about we have some humility and go about things with our heads held high, owning our issues and not proportioning blame on the regulatory bodies. The blame rests solely with Dai, lets keep the EFL out of this.

I actually tried this line of explanation once and some long time posters suggested to me fans had a right to be angry with who they like.

I'd also point out that many people blame Dai for not spending enough money, but the reality is he spent too much money, and trusted the wrong people.

Dai plus an empowered DIrector of Football such as Nicky Hammond i think would have been a great combo.

If you only work with twats, only take the advice of twats and generally hang out in circles full of twats, that suggests to me that you are a twat yourself.

The scenario where Dai listens to good advisors was never going to happen because he's a twat.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

lol, I just think it's important to get things right, this pace isn't Twitter, its better than that. Twitter is just chock full of wailing fannies jumping on the back of anything and everything, oxf*rd THE EFL!!! Blah blah blah. How about we have some humility and go about things with our heads held high, owning our issues and not proportioning blame on the regulatory bodies. The blame rests solely with Dai, lets keep the EFL out of this.

I actually tried this line of explanation once and some long time posters suggested to me fans had a right to be angry with who they like.

I'd also point out that many people blame Dai for not spending enough money, but the reality is he spent too much money, and trusted the wrong people.

Dai plus an empowered DIrector of Football such as Nicky Hammond i think would have been a great combo.

If you only work with twats, only take the advice of twats and generally hang out in circles full of twats, that suggests to me that you are a twat yourself.

The scenario where Dai listens to good advisors was never going to happen because he's a twat.

Yep I think that as well. Badly advised he may have been, but he also must be a poor decision-maker to be listening to said advice. And if he didn't know, then he shouldn't be making a decision in the first place.

He actively removed/lost good (or at least better) people in their respective jobs if you look at the likes of Tevreden, Howe and even Bowen originally as well who was generally looking to put the right things in place for the club. Jobi McAnuff also mentioned a lot of "good people" behind the scenes have left the club as well, so possibly more that we were unaware of. I bet the club to some must feel like a proverbial graveyard.

[Greatwesternline]

I actually tried this line of explanation once and some long time posters suggested to me fans had a right to be angry with who they like.

I'd also point out that many people blame Dai for not spending enough money, but the reality is he spent too much money, and trusted the wrong people.

Dai plus an empowered DIrector of Football such as Nicky Hammond i think would have been a great combo.

If you only work with twats, only take the advice of twats and generally hang out in circles full of twats, that suggests to me that you are a twat yourself.

The scenario where Dai listens to good advisors was never going to happen because he's a twat.

Yep I think that as well. Badly advised he may have been, but he also must be a poor decision-maker to be listening to said advice. And if he didn't know, then he shouldn't be making a decision in the first place.

He actively removed/lost good (or at least better) people in their respective jobs if you look at the likes of Tevreden, Howe and even Bowen originally as well who was generally looking to put the right things in place for the club. Jobi McAnuff also mentioned a lot of "good people" behind the scenes have left the club as well, so possibly more that we were unaware of. I bet the club to some must feel like a proverbial graveyard.

Surely it all goes back to appointing Ron Gourlay who did all that. Ron Gourlay CV must have looked great, he was CEO at Chelsea at the peak of their powers. On paper it was great. he just had other ideas.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

If you only work with twats, only take the advice of twats and generally hang out in circles full of twats, that suggests to me that you are a twat yourself.

The scenario where Dai listens to good advisors was never going to happen because he's a twat.

Yep I think that as well. Badly advised he may have been, but he also must be a poor decision-maker to be listening to said advice. And if he didn't know, then he shouldn't be making a decision in the first place.

He actively removed/lost good (or at least better) people in their respective jobs if you look at the likes of Tevreden, Howe and even Bowen originally as well who was generally looking to put the right things in place for the club. Jobi McAnuff also mentioned a lot of "good people" behind the scenes have left the club as well, so possibly more that we were unaware of. I bet the club to some must feel like a proverbial graveyard.

Surely it all goes back to appointing Ron Gourlay who did all that. Ron Gourlay CV must have looked great, he was CEO at Chelsea at the peak of their powers. On paper it was great. he just had other ideas.

He certainly doesn't pass without blame either as a lot of players were also recruited under his watch as well and they were grossly overpaid. I suspect there are several people to blame for our demise, ranging from the owner down to probably some of the backroom staff as well (I mean, our injury record over the past several seasons cannot be ignored for example).

People will easily point the blame to Dai as he writes out the cheques, me included as it's his money therefore his responsibility. At the same time however, if he has said to Gourlay (or anyone else in a similar role): "Your budget is x amount, you recruit the players to take us up" then yes, the person responsible for recruitment also shares the blame. I don't know how involved or not Dai would have ever been, it's not as if he's been an ever-present at the club.

[From Despair To Where?]

If you only work with twats, only take the advice of twats and generally hang out in circles full of twats, that suggests to me that you are a twat yourself.

The scenario where Dai listens to good advisors was never going to happen because he's a twat.

Yep I think that as well. Badly advised he may have been, but he also must be a poor decision-maker to be listening to said advice. And if he didn't know, then he shouldn't be making a decision in the first place.

He actively removed/lost good (or at least better) people in their respective jobs if you look at the likes of Tevreden, Howe and even Bowen originally as well who was generally looking to put the right things in place for the club. Jobi McAnuff also mentioned a lot of "good people" behind the scenes have left the club as well, so possibly more that we were unaware of. I bet the club to some must feel like a proverbial graveyard.

Surely it all goes back to appointing Ron Gourlay who did all that. Ron Gourlay CV must have looked great, he was CEO at Chelsea at the peak of their powers. On paper it was great. he just had other ideas.

As far as I'm aware, Gourlay's role as CEO at Chelsea had no direct involvement in the playing side, that was left to the DoF. We already had Tevreden in that role, but as we all know, he was one of the first to be edged out. Not wanting to paint Tevreden as some sort of latter day genius but he at least had a handle on what the club needed and the constraints we were working under.

Utterly ruinous appointment.

[Snowflake Royal]

But the Daily Mail said this:
Dai Yongge and his sister Dai Xiu Li, respected in business, were the public face of the takeover. Yet when the details were presented to the Premier League it appeared another figure, Hang Tao, would also own 50 per cent of Hull.

The Premier League ran their usual checks and were unconvinced. They didn’t like the structure of the consortium, they didn’t like Hang Tao. The numbers were not adding up. The deal could not proceed in this form.

Dai Yongge and Dai Xiu Li said they would go forward without their partner. The Premier League said this was unacceptable, too. They felt they had been misled.

So with Hang Tao out of the way they still failed. Daily Mail doesnt say whether it was Yongge or Li that failed subsequently.

But they didn’t fail the test. The PL didn’t let them takeover because of the way they went about it, and didn’t allow the takeover out of principle. Not because of failing any of the actual criteria on the test.

But then surely that is wrong on the PL's part? Surely you can't deny someone the opportunity to own a club when they pass all the necessary checks to do so just because they didn't do something right before that they didn't like and then corrected it?

No. They submited a proposed deal, the PL rejected it because ot someone else. They tried to alter the deal and the PL didn’t allow it. That is not the same as them failing the test.

[Snowflake Royal]

I think this is well established

Being ITK of the ins and outs of RFC = / = ITK of the PL fit and proper person test.

The PL would be extremely unlikely to veto a new member joining based on their ownership. That would be the PL effectively asserting its jurisdiction over the concerns of another league, if it got to decide who could and couldnt get promoted.

All of these procedures are legalistic in nature, with decisions taken by solicitors not wanting to get stuck in litigation. I'm not disagreeing with you btw. I'm fairly confident the EFL wouldnt approve someone who had failed a PL test.

Wait what? You’ve just spent two pages arguing with me on something that you agree with me on? Jfc

GWL.

[Lower West]

If you only work with twats, only take the advice of twats and generally hang out in circles full of twats, that suggests to me that you are a twat yourself.

The scenario where Dai listens to good advisors was never going to happen because he's a twat.

Yep I think that as well. Badly advised he may have been, but he also must be a poor decision-maker to be listening to said advice. And if he didn't know, then he shouldn't be making a decision in the first place.

He actively removed/lost good (or at least better) people in their respective jobs if you look at the likes of Tevreden, Howe and even Bowen originally as well who was generally looking to put the right things in place for the club. Jobi McAnuff also mentioned a lot of "good people" behind the scenes have left the club as well, so possibly more that we were unaware of. I bet the club to some must feel like a proverbial graveyard.

Surely it all goes back to appointing Ron Gourlay who did all that. Ron Gourlay CV must have looked great, he was CEO at Chelsea at the peak of their powers. On paper it was great. he just had other ideas.

Ron Gourlay was just another employee of the club. At the outset Dai's plans and vision for the future would have been appealing. Also the financial firepower that was available. Ron Gourlay being the professional he is. Has never spoken publicly about Dai. Being interesting when the dust settles to know his personal views. In the past I've heard off the record comments from senior people within the club, and they weren't let's say complimentary. Dai didn't come across as being personable in any way. Something his conduct whilst owning the club appears to reinforce.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Yep I think that as well. Badly advised he may have been, but he also must be a poor decision-maker to be listening to said advice. And if he didn't know, then he shouldn't be making a decision in the first place.

He actively removed/lost good (or at least better) people in their respective jobs if you look at the likes of Tevreden, Howe and even Bowen originally as well who was generally looking to put the right things in place for the club. Jobi McAnuff also mentioned a lot of "good people" behind the scenes have left the club as well, so possibly more that we were unaware of. I bet the club to some must feel like a proverbial graveyard.

Surely it all goes back to appointing Ron Gourlay who did all that. Ron Gourlay CV must have looked great, he was CEO at Chelsea at the peak of their powers. On paper it was great. he just had other ideas.

Ron Gourlay was just another employee of the club. At the outset Dai's plans and vision for the future would have been appealing. Also the financial firepower that was available. Ron Gourlay being the professional he is. Has never spoken publicly about Dai. Being interesting when the dust settles to know his personal views. In the past I've heard off the record comments from senior people within the club, and they weren't let's say complimentary. Dai didn't come across as being personable in any way. Something his conduct whilst owning the club appears to reinforce.

Brian Tevreden was absolutely scathing when talking about Gourlay. Think a lot of unpleasant things happened behind the scenes; long term employees who were the life blood of the club moved on was something he mentioned.

[Snowflake Royal]

Surely it all goes back to appointing Ron Gourlay who did all that. Ron Gourlay CV must have looked great, he was CEO at Chelsea at the peak of their powers. On paper it was great. he just had other ideas.

Ron Gourlay was just another employee of the club. At the outset Dai's plans and vision for the future would have been appealing. Also the financial firepower that was available. Ron Gourlay being the professional he is. Has never spoken publicly about Dai. Being interesting when the dust settles to know his personal views. In the past I've heard off the record comments from senior people within the club, and they weren't let's say complimentary. Dai didn't come across as being personable in any way. Something his conduct whilst owning the club appears to reinforce.

Brian Tevreden was absolutely scathing when talking about Gourlay. Think a lot of unpleasant things happened behind the scenes; long term employees who were the life blood of the club moved on was something he mentioned.

I think it's safe to say Dai was dreadful,, appointed someone else dreadful in Gourlay, both were dreadful together. Dai scapegoated Gourlay and then continued to be dreadful, because he is in fact dreadful.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

But they didn’t fail the test. The PL didn’t let them takeover because of the way they went about it, and didn’t allow the takeover out of principle. Not because of failing any of the actual criteria on the test.

But then surely that is wrong on the PL's part? Surely you can't deny someone the opportunity to own a club when they pass all the necessary checks to do so just because they didn't do something right before that they didn't like and then corrected it?

No. They submited a proposed deal, the PL rejected it because ot someone else. They tried to alter the deal and the PL didn’t allow it. That is not the same as them failing the test.

Yeah I know I'm not saying they failed the test, but if that's the case where it was initially rejected and they altered the deal to a point where it was acceptable, surely the rejecting it again is wrong on the PL's part as it's denying someone the opportunity to own a club when they've presumably altered it to "pass" the tests, if you like. I'm not sure and tbh, it's all trivial now anyway because we got stuck with them unfortunately!

[Sutekh]

But the Daily Mail said this:
Dai Yongge and his sister Dai Xiu Li, respected in business, were the public face of the takeover. Yet when the details were presented to the Premier League it appeared another figure, Hang Tao, would also own 50 per cent of Hull.

The Premier League ran their usual checks and were unconvinced. They didn’t like the structure of the consortium, they didn’t like Hang Tao. The numbers were not adding up. The deal could not proceed in this form.

Dai Yongge and Dai Xiu Li said they would go forward without their partner. The Premier League said this was unacceptable, too. They felt they had been misled.

So with Hang Tao out of the way they still failed. Daily Mail doesnt say whether it was Yongge or Li that failed subsequently.

But they didn’t fail the test. The PL didn’t let them takeover because of the way they went about it, and didn’t allow the takeover out of principle. Not because of failing any of the actual criteria on the test.

The reporting at the time said the PL didnt comment as to what had happened. So are you ITK as to why the PL didnt green light Yongge and Li, minus Tao?

I do agree that it would be very strange for the EFL to pass someone who has failed a PL test, given they are using very similar if not identical criteria. If the PL didnt let them takeover based on "the way they went about it" and that they didnt fail any criteria, then Yongge solicitors would have pointed this out to him, and he could have sued them, so the PL would have had to have quite a water tight decision.

It's possible the PL placed too onerous requirements on the Yongge deal to pass the test, and they gave up. But it's not possible to find definitive proof that they didnt fail the test.

Presumably the PL dont comment because announcing that someone is dodgy is quite a slanderous accusation, also open to litigation.

But didn’t the PL say that Dai wouldn’t be allowed to take ownership if Reading won the playoff final?

[Brogue]

Did the EFL ever confrim if Dai attended the meeting with them?

[Mid Sussex Royal]

According to meeting minutes between STAR and the EFL on Monday the hearing re Dai's non payment of funds into a covering account took place at the end of Nov but the resultant punishment has not come back from the IDP.

The meeting re the late payment of tax has been delayed until the New Year, so i guess any points deductions in connection with this will be later in the season as per earlier in the year.

[tmesis]

According to meeting minutes between STAR and the EFL on Monday the hearing re Dai's non payment of funds into a covering account took place at the end of Nov but the resultant punishment has not come back from the IDP.

The meeting re the late payment of tax has been delayed until the New Year, so i guess any points deductions in connection with this will be later in the season as per earlier in the year.

It's the kind of situation where you need kind of the opposite of a suspended penalty - i.e. it's applied, but will be lifted if Dai sells

[Forbury Lion]

lol, I just think it's important to get things right, this pace isn't Twitter, its better than that. Twitter is just chock full of wailing fannies jumping on the back of anything and everything, oxf*rd THE EFL!!! Blah blah blah. How about we have some humility and go about things with our heads held high, owning our issues and not proportioning blame on the regulatory bodies. The blame rests solely with Dai, lets keep the EFL out of this.

I actually tried this line of explanation once and some long time posters suggested to me fans had a right to be angry with who they like.

I'd also point out that many people blame Dai for not spending enough money, but the reality is he spent too much money, and trusted the wrong people.

Dai plus an empowered DIrector of Football such as Nicky Hammond i think would have been a great combo.

If you only work with twats, only take the advice of twats and generally hang out in circles full of twats, that suggests to me that you are a twat yourself.

The scenario where Dai listens to good advisors was never going to happen because he's a twat.

The advisors should have played the long game, would have proved more lucrative for them and more successful for the club. Instead they went for short term profits and got us a load of crap managers and players.

[Royals and Racers]

Morecombe now in trouble with EFL.

[Sutekh]

Morecombe now in trouble with EFL.

Morecambe have responded:

In response to the EFL's announcement that one charge has been brought against Morecambe Football Club and two charges brought against the Club's Owner, in relation to a failure in September to replenish funds required by the EFL to be held in a deposit account following the Agreed Decision reached between the EFL and the Club in August, the Board of Directors wishes to make the following short statement:

Firstly, these are misconduct charges that have been referred by the EFL to an independent disciplinary commission to take place in the New Year. Bond Group have therefore instructed specialist sports lawyers to defend the Club's and the Owner's position at that commission.

Secondly, the Board remains focused on the priority of ensuring that Morecambe Football Club meets all its obligations, which means working with Bond Group to prevent cashflow issues and doing everything within its powers to expedite the process of finding new ownership as quickly as possible.

[Mr Angry]

Soon it is going to be easier to have a list of EFL clubs who aren't in trouble............