Long - Time to go.

[Svlad Cjelli]

So the only way to judge a striker's worth to a team is goals, is it?

[Big Foot]

To end the debate, Shane Long should be embarrassed to hear his name mentioned anywhere near that of Reading ledge Nicky Forster.

[Snowball]

Hoop the guy's best season (he says) was 2002/3 when he got 16 league goals
(two hat-tricks) so 10 goals in 44 games,


and 13 assists in 3 full seasons 2002/3/4/5 in 90 (10) = 93 Games 1 assist every 7.17 games (aged 28-30, pretty much his peak)


Shane has had 7 assists in his last 45 (57) = 55 games 1 assist every 7.9 games (aged 19-23, a relative child)

Half the starts Shane, yet 7 compared to 13 assists, and some of these in the Premiership)


I have no problem with folks saying they "love" Forster or he was great or action-man
or a good bloke, but his best season was 18 goals (is that all games or league and cup)
and he was NOT a man renowned for loads of assists.

So why is he so very very GREAT and stratospherically better than Long
who shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as him?

[Snowball]

So the only way to judge a striker's worth to a team is goals, is it?

Absolutely NOT. Goals, strike-rate, conversion-rate, team-play, assists.


His goals are just marginally better than Long.

His strike rate is cr@p, worse, even than Lita, a lot worse than Long or Church or Doyle or rasiak.

His assist count is no better than Long.

I don't know how hard he worked off the ball, but I know Long is exceptional in that department, chasing down defenders, chasing back, clearing off his own line.

But he was approaching his peak when he joined Reading, had played as many games before joining as Long has played total. He was 26, 29 in the season he says was his best.

Long is 23 and very close to matching him, has scored six Premiership goals.


I have no problem with "the lurv" but the rest is stupidly blinkered nostalgia.
Almost half of Forster's Reading games were at a lower level than Long's

[Snowball]

To end the debate, Shane Long should be embarrassed to hear his name mentioned anywhere near that of Reading ledge Nicky Forster.

of COURSE. You say it, it must be true

[floyd__streete]

his best season was 18 goals

What is Long's best seasonal tally then?

Cheerio.

[cmonurz]

So a striker who was selfish blah blah blah...............

But as you admit, you never watched him play, so how can you have any judgement on his ability whatsoever? Many on here had the honour of watching Robin Friday play for RFC, but he was before my time, so I'd never try to compare a current player to him.

Forster brought so much more to the side than Long ever will - and as for his goalscoring record it's worth noting that whilst Long has essentially played at centre-forward for his whole career, a significant chunk of Forster's appearances were on the right-wing, as he couldn't break through the Butler/Cureton partnership up front. Not that it mattered, as the Murty/Fozzy partnership down our right-hand side was absolutely electrifying. Not that you'd know that, having not seen it.

[Snowball]

his best season was 18 goals

What is Long's best seasonal tally then?

Cheerio.

Don't be thick. How many games did Forster start to get those 18 goals? 46? 48? 50?

Shane's busiest season was 2009-10 when he played 22 (9) and 3 (2) in the cup

That's a total of 25 (11) = 27 for 12 goals


Do the sums.

[Snowball]

But as you admit, you never watched him play, so how can you have any judgement on his ability whatsoever? Many on here had the honour of watching Robin Friday play for RFC, but he was before my time, so I'd never try to compare a current player to him.

Forster brought so much more to the side than Long ever will - and as for his goalscoring record it's worth noting that whilst Long has essentially played at centre-forward for his whole career, a significant chunk of Forster's appearances were on the right-wing, as he couldn't break through the Butler/Cureton partnership up front. Not that it mattered, as the Murty/Fozzy partnership down our right-hand side was absolutely electrifying. Not that you'd know that, having not seen it.

I refer to his selfishness because a number of people say he was selfish.

I refer to his goal-scoring abilities because there are stats for that. He missed 7 out of 8 chances and makes Church look like Alan Shearer.

And half his games were in League 1?

[floyd__streete]

Don't be thick. How many games did Forster start to get those 18 goals? 46? 48? 50?

Shane's busiest season was 2009-10 when he played 22 (9) and 3 (2) in the cup

That's a total of 25 (11) = 27 for 12 goals


Do the sums.

How many games has Shane started this season? Almost every game in the league, 2 goals (how many from open play) in a dozen games, so over a season he might get us 8 goals if this goes on.

I tell you what you can't measure in your wretched, selective stats - how much more enjoyment I got from watching Forster play as opposed to suffering Long lolloping around the park 'working hard' to overcome that woeful first touch of his. Forster was also adaptable enough to play a fair wedge of his career (not necessarily at Reading) on the wing, showing that dynamite pace and skill to good effect. Of course, as you readily admit you wouldn't know too much about how good Forster was given that you are a typical JCL Reading fan.

[Alan Partridge]

To suggest Long is > Forster and actually mean it is quite honestly the biggest load of bollox ever posted on HNA. including 'what is your favourite vowel' and 'what do you call your remote control'.

[AndyRFC]

absolute drivel snowball.

[cmonurz]

You've ignored the bit about what he brought to the team. As you always do. If you never saw him play how can you even begin to compare him contribution to a current player? It makes no sense. Of our forwards of the last 10 years, Doyle, Cureton, Forster - in that order - for the impact they have had on the side. With perhaps the exception of Kitson, no-one else comes close imho.

Without Forster, the sides he was in would have had far less attacking potency. He was quick, good on the ball, could take on and beat a man. Given Kebe beating a man is little more than flipping a coin and seeing which foot he falls over, you could argue Forster is head and shoulders above every other winger to have played in this side in the past decade, too.

But then never having watched him play, you aren't really in a position to compare him.

And to expand on the point about the fallacy of looking solely at stats. If you looked at England strikers over the past decade, you might conclude that Teddy Sheringham (11 goals in 51 games) was an inferior England player to Jermain Defoe (15 goals in 45 games). If you watched them both, however, you'd know what Sheringham bought to the team as a 'forward', as oppose to a striker, and the brilliance of his partnership with Shearer, something Defoe doesn't bring to the current England setup, either as an individual or a striker partner.

[floyd__streete]

And to expand on the point about the fallacy of looking solely at stats. If you looked at England strikers over the past decade, you might conclude that Teddy Sheringham (11 goals in 51 games) was an inferior England player to Jermain Defoe (15 goals in 45 games). If you watched them both, however, you'd know what Sheringham bought to the team as a 'forward', as oppose to a striker, and the brilliance of his partnership with Shearer, something Defoe doesn't bring to the current England setup, either as an individual or a striker partner.

Well said, cmonurz.

[handbags_harris]

I'm reading this with

Snowball me old chum, you are quite frankly so utterly wrong it is unreal. Nicky Forster, as has been mentioned, played a fair number of his Reading games at right wing. He also played a lone striker role to perfection and was, without question, the best player to play that role for Reading. Nicky Forster was a player with pace in abundance, a cracking first touch, strength, ability on the ball, a cracking strike (how many of those 59 goals came from outside the area?). He had the ability to fashion a chance from absolutely nothing, and he did so with regularity. He was strong in the air for a man of only 5 feet 10 inches tall. His movement was among some of the most intelligent in the game. His instinct was up there with Jimmy Quinn for me. His chance creation was far superior to Long's, and he actually got into goalscoring positions with far greater regularity than Long does. How does the saying go? You have to be there to miss them...? The fact is that Forster instilled a degree of fear into defenders that Shane Long never will. Opposition defences knew that they would be in for a hard game with Forster in amongst them.

And, of course, the comparison you have is seriously flawed because you openly admit you never saw Nicky Forster play, and that seriously undermines your already questionable credibility caused by your complete and absolute faith in the statistics which do not take into account what a player does away from scoring, missing and assisting.

[floyd__streete]

Here's a stat for you. 2002/03, Forster scored 16 goals in 35+5 Championship games. Mainly playing as the loan striker in a 4-5-1, a system similar to which Long has been part of on a regular basis so far this season. If Long gets close to that kind of strike rate this season I'll eat my hat.

[sandman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ssxKVAUQQI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF5SMIzkbgk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkXDa5bXlAY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfppxHO2b88&feature=related

Watch and learn Snowball (If Long has any sense he'd do the same).

[Snowball]

To suggest Long is > Forster and actually mean it is quite honestly the biggest load of bollox ever posted on HNA. including 'what is your favourite vowel' and 'what do you call your remote control'.

I'm NOT suggesting Long is better than Forster

I'm not even suggesting Long is the EQUAL of Forster


What I object to is this bollox idea that Forster is so much better than Long
that Long should not be mentioned in the same county as Forster.

It's the bog-standard inflate the idols when they make a few important
and ignore all the errors, failings, selfishnesses, missed chances, because
that's what nostalgia does.

Think of your childhood. It never rained, right?

There is a downer on Long, a facked-up, unreasonable downer because fans don't know the difference
between STARTS and five minute run-outs. Church, for example, has come on this season for ONE minute, twice
yet that gets logged as "an appearance". One start and 90 minutes played is 90 times the chance to score.


And Kebe will never be a footballer
And Cummings will never be a footballer
And Federici is crap and will never be a first choice keeper.

[floyd__streete]

Here's a stat for you. 2002/03, Forster scored 16 goals in 35+5 Championship games. Mainly playing as the loan striker in a 4-5-1, a system similar to which Long has been part of on a regular basis so far this season. If Long gets close to that kind of strike rate this season I'll eat my hat.

Oh, and by the way - none of those 16 goals were penalties

[Snowball]

Here's a stat for you. 2002/03, Forster scored 16 goals in 35+5 Championship games. Mainly playing as the loan striker in a 4-5-1, a system similar to which Long has been part of on a regular basis so far this season. If Long gets close to that kind of strike rate this season I'll eat my hat.

Oh, and by the way - none of those 16 goals were penalties

And he was 29 with bags and bags of experience

Long in terms of starts/goals is matching him, he's just 3-6 years behind

Do you get that bit?