Danny Guthrie - Refusing To Travel

[Elm Park Pasty]

Whilst I don't condone what Danny Guthrie did yesterday (or more to the point, didn't do!), and I think he should have travelled with the party, I don't think it can be said this has been all one way traffic. In some ways it is a snapshot of our season, a grumpy player who can't get a game in an extremely poor side, a manager who picks said player as a sub and then says he didn't bring him on because he was injured (WTF??!! Did he pull a muscle flexing on the bench?), players who play poorly/are out of form being played week in week out (Gorkss anyone?). Guthrie has been out of order this season, and was again last night, but let's not forget the fact that there are times this season when you get the impression that Reading FC is run by Fred Karno. To all thsoe who say none of this is Brian's fault, then I'm sorry, he has to pick up at least part of the blame. There does seem a continued theme this season of briefing the press with stories that patently do not ring true (Is Federici injured or dropped? Pearce is not being picked because um, er....) and there seems a wilful pigheadedness to NOT do what seems to be in the best interests of the club to maintain some sort of status quo. I would love Pearce to stay but why was our POTS last season not being played when our defence was woeful? Why was Guthrie not even given 20mins on Saturday, and then come out and say he's injured? If that's the case what's the point of having him on the bench in the first f***ing place?

I don't agree with what Guthrie did last night. However, I'm not sure how up for playing I would be if I was desperate to play Saturday, didn't and then found out it was because I was 'injured' (and yes I know a little of that was conjecture). What would Brian's excuse have been last night? He was afraid if he came out of the dugout, the aliens would have abducted him? It is extremely easy for him to say he would have played, but that could have been 30seconds at the end when we had already lost. We need experienced leadership, and we aren't getting it, and as such we veer from one disaster to another. To be honest I wouldn't be sad to see them both go, and as much as his actions last night pissed me off, Guthrie is probably the one I would prefer to stay. We seem to be a Championship club with a Championship Manager at the moment, and I'm not all that sure we would be doing well there.

[akranes]

Basically, McDermott is sitting next to Guthrie, poking him.

For days....

and days....

Then Guthrie punches McDermott.

[winchester_royal]

He would definitely have got a game because we didn't have any recognisable players on the bench. How bad can the club get when you can't get together enough players to fill the bench, yet have one of your possible first team players not wanting to play?
I'm not sure if BM making comments about Guthrie directly to the press were some sort of effort to distract from his recent performance as manager
I'm not convinced Guthrie is the man to save our season, but we really needed players last night, and unfortunately even though I don't think we should get rid of BM, its a bit difficult to keep listening to his post match comments without thinking he sounds like the chancellor of the exchequer with no plan-B and no real clue how to turn things around

How do we we know he'd have definitely got a game?

When at Southampton we thought it was guaranteed to come on in that match given how awful we were.

He was told he was going to be on the bench and, as he is clearly quite stroppy/thick, he walked out. That's his fault and he will get fined.

However, as many have pointed out, McDermott has to take some blame for letting it get to this point.

[glenroyal]

If you listen to the BBC interview (link posted earlier) McD genuinely sounds sincere, saddened, very emotional and (sadly) out of his depth.

It seems that Guthrie texted to apologise (which suggests that the fault lies with him, but who knows).

The reaction to last night is pivotal. I honestly don't think McD will get the push or walk. He needs to get everyone in a conference room somewhere today (away from Hogwarts), behind closed doors, and thrash out what is going wrong. There are senior players in the team who need to have their say, and clearly some people who need to explain their actions. I would also include some of the "injured" players in there. Clear the air. Regroup. And if necessary tell some characters to get with the program or stay away pending a compromise agreement or January move.

The one thing I felt we would be this season is hard to beat and honest, and that this would make up for a lack of talent. Our work ethic is being undermined by all sorts of issues, which is leaving our lack of talent totally exposed. Whatever factions there are within the team need addressing head on. We can't "move on" from last night's white flag without it.

Agreed. As I said on another thread, the fact Guthrie apologised means there's hope and it doesn't need to be about "blame and fault" - but more "OK, we're in this together". Brian is maybe paying the price for his too honest loyalty, to Mr Mad, Anton and Nicky, as well as the original squad, but there is no doubting his sincerity and his knowledge of the situation. It's a tough job.

[Elm Park Pasty]

This is starting to look and feel a lot like 2007-8 when we went down. Players refusing to play, big signings not feeling that they are getting a chance, blind faith in personnel and systems which aren't working. A feeling that this league, it's personalities and finances are just too much for us.

If you listen to the BBC interview (link posted earlier) McD genuinely sounds sincere, saddened, very emotional and (sadly) out of his depth.

It seems that Guthrie texted to apologise (which suggests that the fault lies with him, but who knows).

The reaction to last night is pivotal. I honestly don't think McD will get the push or walk. He needs to get everyone in a conference room somewhere today (away from Hogwarts), behind closed doors, and thrash out what is going wrong. There are senior players in the team who need to have their say, and clearly some people who need to explain their actions. I would also include some of the "injured" players in there. Clear the air. Regroup. And if necessary tell some characters to get with the program or stay away pending a compromise agreement or January move.

The one thing I felt we would be this season is hard to beat and honest, and that this would make up for a lack of talent. Our work ethic is being undermined by all sorts of issues, which is leaving our lack of talent totally exposed. Whatever factions there are within the team need addressing head on. We can't "move on" from last night's white flag without it.

Agree 100%. Stop being Mr Nice Guy, get a room, crack some heads and let off some steam.

[melonhead]

Confirmed by McDermott.

Whose f*cking fault is that McDermott?

no excuses.
the boy is a disgrace.
should never ever happen.regardless of the situation.
fact remains whe was to be involved, and even if it was to be from the bench, for 35k a week, you get on the bus and do your best for the team.

hes played 45 minutes of reserve team football, so if brian decides he needs to gain fitness from the bench before starting, thats what happens.

berating brian for it is ridiculous.

imo

[melonhead]

'The individual's ego has to go out of the window'

Look in the f*cking mirror McDermott!

probabably the least ego based manager in football

[melonhead]

What a surprise. Reading & McDermott quick to release this story to deviate the news away from McDermott and his position at the club. Has anyone stopped to think that the way Guthrie has been treated by McDermott is to blame? But no, air your dirty laundry in public. Fool.
Everyone jumping on the Guthrie hate bandwagon, but you've only heard one side to the story.

Fact of the matter is McDermott Shouldnt be at the club in the first place to be creating this drama. Poor management style to release this to the press from an awfully poor manager.

McDermott out.

if he hadnt have said anything youd all have ben calling for his head for not even putting him on th ebench

[Maguire]

When you're made promises that have persuaded you to leave a club like Newcastle it's not unreasonable to expect those to be fulfilled.

We aren't even close to knowing the full story here.

What promises?

I thought he was perdsuaded to leave Newcastle by his contract there ending?

He was offered a new one.

Have we somehow broken out contractual "promise" then?

[Alan Partridge]

Whilst I don't condone what Danny Guthrie did yesterday (or more to the point, didn't do!), and I think he should have travelled with the party, I don't think it can be said this has been all one way traffic. In some ways it is a snapshot of our season, a grumpy player who can't get a game in an extremely poor side, a manager who picks said player as a sub and then says he didn't bring him on because he was injured (WTF??!! Did he pull a muscle flexing on the bench?), players who play poorly/are out of form being played week in week out (Gorkss anyone?). Guthrie has been out of order this season, and was again last night, but let's not forget the fact that there are times this season when you get the impression that Reading FC is run by Fred Karno. To all thsoe who say none of this is Brian's fault, then I'm sorry, he has to pick up at least part of the blame. There does seem a continued theme this season of briefing the press with stories that patently do not ring true (Is Federici injured or dropped? Pearce is not being picked because um, er....) and there seems a wilful pigheadedness to NOT do what seems to be in the best interests of the club to maintain some sort of status quo. I would love Pearce to stay but why was our POTS last season not being played when our defence was woeful? Why was Guthrie not even given 20mins on Saturday, and then come out and say he's injured? If that's the case what's the point of having him on the bench in the first f***ing place?

I don't agree with what Guthrie did last night. However, I'm not sure how up for playing I would be if I was desperate to play Saturday, didn't and then found out it was because I was 'injured' (and yes I know a little of that was conjecture). What would Brian's excuse have been last night? He was afraid if he came out of the dugout, the aliens would have abducted him? It is extremely easy for him to say he would have played, but that could have been 30seconds at the end when we had already lost. We need experienced leadership, and we aren't getting it, and as such we veer from one disaster to another. To be honest I wouldn't be sad to see them both go, and as much as his actions last night pissed me off, Guthrie is probably the one I would prefer to stay. We seem to be a Championship club with a Championship Manager at the moment, and I'm not all that sure we would be doing well there.

Agreed. This is why I can't just say Guthrie is completely 100% to blame. Dont' think he's done himself any favours or acted the right way about it but there is only so much you can take of something being so wrong and everyone knows it's wrong that there is a 'breaking point'. Like you say is it Brian trying to maintain some status quo i don't know but there are numerous 'un Reading like' selection decisions this season that from pure footballing reasons make absolutely ZERO sense. Guthrie and Pearce are 2 that make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Regardless of what's happened before and where the club has come from, Brian has had a truly shocking season so far. Both in terms of his transfer dealings and especially his selections. This has given Brian a perfect excuse and been able to deflect away from the result and performance last night, this is now the focus about a player he wouldn't have picked anyway. Of course he would say after he'd have been involved, sub and probably on for 10minutes maximum, there is something between these two that doesn't work and it's been clear for weeks/months. Wouldn't be surprised if Pogrebnyak was next to force a move or speak out about not being happy.

[melonhead]

Guthrie can only ask why bother coming to Dubai to sign me and not even play me? Absolute joke!

Idiot. No player is guaranteed a place in the starting eleven. They have to work for it. What has Guthrie done to earn that?

absolutely nothing

had two good games, one of which where stoke just left him alone in the middle to do what he liked.

then thrown two paddys, spoekn out publicly against the manager, refused to play
apologised twice. the bloke is a oxf*rd turd.

hes been out for a month, and played half a game of reserve football, if brian thinks he needs to gain fitness before starting, i think thats more than fair

[melonhead]

But Guthrie has been treated unfairly.

What is the bleeming point in signing a player and don't bother using him?

hes had loads of chances, played in plenty of games. the first time he is dropped he goes on twitter and has a pop at the manager.
hes told to go and sort himself out for a couple of games, then gets injured, he plays 45 mins in the reserves and thinks he is within his rights to demand to walk straight into the team?



brian as manager has to take some of the responsibility for the relationship break down. but as a player what guthrie has done, twice, is totally unacceptable

[melonhead]

Besides, nobody is saying that his actions were the right thing to do, just that there can be blame apportioned to both sides here

that isnt really true is it

[cmonurz]

hes had loads of chances, played in plenty of games.

Really?









Really?

[Snowball]

Guthrie refusing to travel meant we had two academy players and a 37 year old midfielder on the bench.

It makes UTTERLY no difference if McDermott has been urinating in Guthrie's face every morning.

Guthrie let down his team-mates and that is unforgiveable. Totally.




There can be no question that Guthrie is an unsettling influence at reading FC
and that has to be permanently fixed today.



He could have put in a transfer request, been clear then shut his f-cking GOB
but his actions are not and should never be, solely about himself.

This is NOT the same as an office job, these are 'soldiers", mates, a team, a squad
and they live and die together. The other players will be perfectly aware of his
extra ball-playing ability. So what? What they want to know is they have a team-mate
who is there when the going gets tough, when the boots fly in, when the elbows start.


Sadly with this issue, and others, it is 99% certain that the damage will take at least the rest
of this season to repair, and next season might be a nightmare too. The heart is being ripped out
of RFC

[melonhead]

yes


yes




and done next to nothing on the majority of them to expect to play, or to justify half our fans siding with him over it.
when cisse and fae refused to play in a oxf*rd reserve match the whole board went ballistic at them. this is twice as bad, and all of a sudden hes getting defended, and loads of "yes its bad, but...." comments


lol

[melonhead]

Guthrie refusing to travel meant we had two academy players and a 37 year old midfielder on the bench.

It makes UTTERLY no difference if McDermott has been urinating in Guthrie's face every morning.

Guthrie let down his team-mates and that is unforgiveable. Totally.




There can be no question that Guthrie is an unsettling influence at reading FC
and that has to be permanently fixed today.



He could have put in a transfer request, been clear then shut his f-cking GOB
but his actions are not and should never be, solely about himself.

This is NOT the same as an office job, these are 'soldiers", mates, a team, a squad
and they live and die together. The other players will be perfectly aware of his
extra ball-playing ability. So what? What they want to know is they have a team-mate
who is there when the going gets tough, when the boots fly in, when the elbows start.


Sadly with this issue, and others, it is 99% certain that the damage will take at least the rest
of this season to repair, and next season might be a nightmare too. The heart is being ripped out
of RFC

this^^^^^
100% this

[Silver Fox]

What promises?

I thought he was perdsuaded to leave Newcastle by his contract there ending?

He was offered a new one.

Have we somehow broken out contractual "promise" then?

I heard he's also lost the moon on a stick we gave him as a signing bonus

[cmonurz]

yes


yes

Good against Stoke, excellent against Chelsea (looking back we’ve barely played better than those two games all season) and then made two more league starts. That’s it.

And the same person saying 3 poor games wasn’t enough to drop Feds thinks Guthrie had enough chances.

[trueroyal1871]

Has anyone considered that he might be having mental health issues? I'm not defending him if he's just being a prick but he might genuinely have some problems that he feels he can't talk openly to the manager about.

He could just be being a helmet though.