blythspartan Is this your first century?
My record is about 3 pages at best which says more about me I guess.
Hopefully, this thread will all be a long distant memory sooner rather than later.
GreatwesternlineSnowflake RoyalGreatwesternline
If most of every clubs money comes from TV revenue than this matters a lot less. Cambridge also werent paying Ejaria's wages. Its plausible Ejaria wages alone would eat up the entire difference of Reading and Cambridge's ticket sales.
Cambridge also aren't running a first team squad half full of U22s with almost no league experience going into the season.
The further down the league structure the smaller the slice of income TV money is.
Good points. League One gets £37m this season. So £1.5m each.
Ejaria's transfer fee this season for the accounts would be £3.5m / 4 = £875k
His wages? God knows, but shall we say £15k a week? = £780k.
Ejaria alone used up all the TV money. crikey.
GreatwesternlineYorkshireRoyal99Greatwesternline
Good points. League One gets £37m this season. So £1.5m each.
Ejaria's transfer fee this season for the accounts would be £3.5m / 4 = £875k
His wages? God knows, but shall we say £15k a week? = £780k.
Ejaria alone used up all the TV money. crikey.
Not necessarily as there is nothing to say that we paid Liverpool £875k for Ejaria this season, that's just an accounting method rather than an actual transaction. We also mutually terminated his contract which, as mentioned, saved us in the region on £200k. So whilst a third of TV money on one player is a lot, it is far from all.
The football league profit rules don't care about cashflow. They care about accounting losses. and other people on here are talking about accounting losses they dont understand in teh accounts. Football accounts have three big outgoings, salaries, contract ammortisations, and losses on disposal of players sold. I.e. you sell a player for less than what his contract is valued for in the books. So its perfectly valid to discuss how much ejaria is costing the accounts.
In terms of cashflow now, why are we so screwed? Probably because our revenue is extremely small now.
In 21-22 in the championship we had matchday income of £3m and tv money of £6m with average attendance of 14249. So £9m in total. And some player sales.
This season we will have maybe average attandance of 10k, so maybe matchday revenue of £1.8m and Tv money of £1.5m. We're not looking at much more than £3m in revenue.
Back end of last season Bowen kept saying we are out of the water now in terms of FFP rules, we'd had out deductions. People even said allowable losses are higher in League 1 because owners can do certain things.
Its probably quite likely that Bowen went and offered some decent deals to attract Knibbs, Smith, Savage. Button. We've been run unsustainably before, we are probably doing so this year too. The fact the club runs out of money each month is pretty strong evidence that our monthly wage bill is in excess of our income.
YorkshireRoyal99GreatwesternlineYorkshireRoyal99
Not necessarily as there is nothing to say that we paid Liverpool £875k for Ejaria this season, that's just an accounting method rather than an actual transaction. We also mutually terminated his contract which, as mentioned, saved us in the region on £200k. So whilst a third of TV money on one player is a lot, it is far from all.
The football league profit rules don't care about cashflow. They care about accounting losses. and other people on here are talking about accounting losses they dont understand in teh accounts. Football accounts have three big outgoings, salaries, contract ammortisations, and losses on disposal of players sold. I.e. you sell a player for less than what his contract is valued for in the books. So its perfectly valid to discuss how much ejaria is costing the accounts.
In terms of cashflow now, why are we so screwed? Probably because our revenue is extremely small now.
In 21-22 in the championship we had matchday income of £3m and tv money of £6m with average attendance of 14249. So £9m in total. And some player sales.
This season we will have maybe average attandance of 10k, so maybe matchday revenue of £1.8m and Tv money of £1.5m. We're not looking at much more than £3m in revenue.
Back end of last season Bowen kept saying we are out of the water now in terms of FFP rules, we'd had out deductions. People even said allowable losses are higher in League 1 because owners can do certain things.
Its probably quite likely that Bowen went and offered some decent deals to attract Knibbs, Smith, Savage. Button. We've been run unsustainably before, we are probably doing so this year too. The fact the club runs out of money each month is pretty strong evidence that our monthly wage bill is in excess of our income.
The comment was more in response to the assumption we "paid" £875k for Ejaria this season, we did on our accounting books but maybe not in terms of actual cash flow. Whilst I appreciate cashflow isn't related the EFL P&S calculations, that's not where our problems seem to be this season at this moment in time (makes a change). Our issues are seemingly actually paying for our liabilities (no pun intended given our current position).
I agree it is entirely possible that our current wage bill could exceed our income currently, but given L1 clubs can only spend £2.5m on wages, taxes, image rights and bonuses, that would be about 83% of our turnover, assuming this is £3m as you've mentioned above. I suspect it's a case of wait and see if we have broken these limits come the back end of this season, given our recent historic and current situation though, you may be right and possibly we have. If so, that's pretty negligent on Bowen's part.
WestYorksRoyalYorkshireRoyal99Greatwesternline
The football league profit rules don't care about cashflow. They care about accounting losses. and other people on here are talking about accounting losses they dont understand in teh accounts. Football accounts have three big outgoings, salaries, contract ammortisations, and losses on disposal of players sold. I.e. you sell a player for less than what his contract is valued for in the books. So its perfectly valid to discuss how much ejaria is costing the accounts.
In terms of cashflow now, why are we so screwed? Probably because our revenue is extremely small now.
In 21-22 in the championship we had matchday income of £3m and tv money of £6m with average attendance of 14249. So £9m in total. And some player sales.
This season we will have maybe average attandance of 10k, so maybe matchday revenue of £1.8m and Tv money of £1.5m. We're not looking at much more than £3m in revenue.
Back end of last season Bowen kept saying we are out of the water now in terms of FFP rules, we'd had out deductions. People even said allowable losses are higher in League 1 because owners can do certain things.
Its probably quite likely that Bowen went and offered some decent deals to attract Knibbs, Smith, Savage. Button. We've been run unsustainably before, we are probably doing so this year too. The fact the club runs out of money each month is pretty strong evidence that our monthly wage bill is in excess of our income.
The comment was more in response to the assumption we "paid" £875k for Ejaria this season, we did on our accounting books but maybe not in terms of actual cash flow. Whilst I appreciate cashflow isn't related the EFL P&S calculations, that's not where our problems seem to be this season at this moment in time (makes a change). Our issues are seemingly actually paying for our liabilities (no pun intended given our current position).
I agree it is entirely possible that our current wage bill could exceed our income currently, but given L1 clubs can only spend £2.5m on wages, taxes, image rights and bonuses, that would be about 83% of our turnover, assuming this is £3m as you've mentioned above. I suspect it's a case of wait and see if we have broken these limits come the back end of this season, given our recent historic and current situation though, you may be right and possibly we have. If so, that's pretty negligent on Bowen's part.
Not sure I'd expect Bowen as DoF to be forecasting income and calculating wage budgets; that should be the CFO and CEO overseen by the Board.
It's pretty clear when you go back to last season's Blue Collar event that Bowen was given assurances on Dai's commitment which turned out to be bollocks. Our recruitment in the summer reflects that. If he'd known what was coming, we wouldn't have Smith, Knibbs and Wing and could well be bottom. At least we wouldn't have signed Dean though.
Brogue I like how people talk with such authority on this thread. It’s as if they know what they are talking about.
HendoBrogue I like how people talk with such authority on this thread. It’s as if they know what they are talking about.
YorkshireRoyal99WestYorksRoyalYorkshireRoyal99
The comment was more in response to the assumption we "paid" £875k for Ejaria this season, we did on our accounting books but maybe not in terms of actual cash flow. Whilst I appreciate cashflow isn't related the EFL P&S calculations, that's not where our problems seem to be this season at this moment in time (makes a change). Our issues are seemingly actually paying for our liabilities (no pun intended given our current position).
I agree it is entirely possible that our current wage bill could exceed our income currently, but given L1 clubs can only spend £2.5m on wages, taxes, image rights and bonuses, that would be about 83% of our turnover, assuming this is £3m as you've mentioned above. I suspect it's a case of wait and see if we have broken these limits come the back end of this season, given our recent historic and current situation though, you may be right and possibly we have. If so, that's pretty negligent on Bowen's part.
Not sure I'd expect Bowen as DoF to be forecasting income and calculating wage budgets; that should be the CFO and CEO overseen by the Board.
It's pretty clear when you go back to last season's Blue Collar event that Bowen was given assurances on Dai's commitment which turned out to be bollocks. Our recruitment in the summer reflects that. If he'd known what was coming, we wouldn't have Smith, Knibbs and Wing and could well be bottom. At least we wouldn't have signed Dean though.
No but I'd have expected that to have communicated to him though. No point having our DoF spearheading our recruitment and not telling him what flexibility we do/don't have in our wage budget especially. Having said that, it's Reading FC so I guess any form of incompetence is possible.
HendoBrogue I like how people talk with such authority on this thread. It’s as if they know what they are talking about.
GreatwesternlineYorkshireRoyal99Greatwesternline
Good points. League One gets £37m this season. So £1.5m each.
Ejaria's transfer fee this season for the accounts would be £3.5m / 4 = £875k
His wages? God knows, but shall we say £15k a week? = £780k.
Ejaria alone used up all the TV money. crikey.
Not necessarily as there is nothing to say that we paid Liverpool £875k for Ejaria this season, that's just an accounting method rather than an actual transaction. We also mutually terminated his contract which, as mentioned, saved us in the region on £200k. So whilst a third of TV money on one player is a lot, it is far from all.
The football league profit rules don't care about cashflow. They care about accounting losses. and other people on here are talking about accounting losses they dont understand in teh accounts. Football accounts have three big outgoings, salaries, contract ammortisations, and losses on disposal of players sold. I.e. you sell a player for less than what his contract is valued for in the books. So its perfectly valid to discuss how much ejaria is costing the accounts.
In terms of cashflow now, why are we so screwed? Probably because our revenue is extremely small now.
In 21-22 in the championship we had matchday income of £3m and tv money of £6m with average attendance of 14249. So £9m in total. And some player sales.
This season we will have maybe average attandance of 10k, so maybe matchday revenue of £1.8m and Tv money of £1.5m. We're not looking at much more than £3m in revenue.
Back end of last season Bowen kept saying we are out of the water now in terms of FFP rules, we'd had out deductions. People even said allowable losses are higher in League 1 because owners can do certain things.
Its probably quite likely that Bowen went and offered some decent deals to attract Knibbs, Smith, Savage. Button. We've been run unsustainably before, we are probably doing so this year too. The fact the club runs out of money each month is pretty strong evidence that our monthly wage bill is in excess of our income.
SouthDownsRoyalHendoBrogue I like how people talk with such authority on this thread. It’s as if they know what they are talking about.
Only One Nobsworth really has any authority
Wrong.Brogue top of the mother fcuking page
Forbury LionWrong.Brogue top of the mother fcuking page
Clyde1998GreatwesternlineYorkshireRoyal99
Not necessarily as there is nothing to say that we paid Liverpool £875k for Ejaria this season, that's just an accounting method rather than an actual transaction. We also mutually terminated his contract which, as mentioned, saved us in the region on £200k. So whilst a third of TV money on one player is a lot, it is far from all.
The football league profit rules don't care about cashflow. They care about accounting losses. and other people on here are talking about accounting losses they dont understand in teh accounts. Football accounts have three big outgoings, salaries, contract ammortisations, and losses on disposal of players sold. I.e. you sell a player for less than what his contract is valued for in the books. So its perfectly valid to discuss how much ejaria is costing the accounts.
In terms of cashflow now, why are we so screwed? Probably because our revenue is extremely small now.
In 21-22 in the championship we had matchday income of £3m and tv money of £6m with average attendance of 14249. So £9m in total. And some player sales.
This season we will have maybe average attandance of 10k, so maybe matchday revenue of £1.8m and Tv money of £1.5m. We're not looking at much more than £3m in revenue.
Back end of last season Bowen kept saying we are out of the water now in terms of FFP rules, we'd had out deductions. People even said allowable losses are higher in League 1 because owners can do certain things.
Its probably quite likely that Bowen went and offered some decent deals to attract Knibbs, Smith, Savage. Button. We've been run unsustainably before, we are probably doing so this year too. The fact the club runs out of money each month is pretty strong evidence that our monthly wage bill is in excess of our income.
You've missed commercial revenue (sponsorship, merchandising, etc.) from your estimates. The 2021-22 accounts showed £4.6m in commercial revenue, in addition to £3.6m of matchday and £8.4m in broadcasting revenues. The club had total revenues of £16.9m that season.
Charlton in 2021-22, probably the most comparable club to us in League One, received £2m from broadcasting, £4.9m from matchday and £1.8m from commercial revenue, plus £1m from 'other' revenue; they received a total of £9.8m in revenue that season. Their categories aren't directly comparable to ours, for example they count advertising revenue as matchday and streaming revenue as commercial, whereas I believe we count them as commercial and broadcasting respectively.
Realistically, the club will receive somewhere between £8m and £10m in revenue this season:
- On matchday revenues, the £3,643,777 the club received in 2021-22 divided by the (claimed) average attendance of 14,249 is £255.72 per average fan. Using that average for 10,000 fans would be £2,557,216 per season (keep in mind ticket prices increased this season).
- Looking at the impact on commercial revenues after relegation, it appears most clubs see basically no impact on this income stream in the season following relegation - even if we say it's down 20%, that's £3.7m.
- Let's use the £2m in broadcasting revenue Charlton received in 2021-22.
- Overall that's £8.3m in total revenue, before considering the impact of player sales.
Ascotexgunner If....as it looks like it will be now, short of a miracle sale and manager replacement.....we get relegated. Can we actually afford to be in League 2 renting a big stadium off Dai with bugger all attendance if he sells the club name only whilst retaining the club assets....which clearly I think he wants. Do we move somewhere else? Wycombe? Aldershot? as the likes of Coventry did. The books can't balance surely.
Ascotexgunner If....as it looks like it will be now, short of a miracle sale and manager replacement.....we get relegated. Can we actually afford to be in League 2 renting a big stadium off Dai with bugger all attendance if he sells the club name only whilst retaining the club assets....which clearly I think he wants. Do we move somewhere else? Wycombe? Aldershot? as the likes of Coventry did. The books can't balance surely.
Snowflake Royal Safe to say the Academy is paying its way this season.
We wouldn't have a side without it.
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