REFWATCH: Reading v Southampton

[Svlad Cjelli]

You disagree that it would have been a goalscoring opportunity, where Church would have been through on goal with nobody having any chance of stopping him?
The guy not only blocked the ball with his hand, he also manhandled Church.

Had Fonte not been performing a professional foul, Church would have been through on goal alone, destined to score.

There's a school of thought that says that he only handled the ball because Church shoved him. But quite apart from that, Church didn't have possession of the ball and there was no guarantee he was going to, plus he was far enough from goal with otehr defenders close enough to him that there was no way that was a clear goalscoring opportunity. No complaints with the decision at all.

Small complaint with De Ridder not being booked for a theatrical dive in the box, shortly before he clattered into Mills for an unquestiobale yellow card.

[Platypuss]

You disagree that it would have been a goalscoring opportunity

A clear one, yes. Your exclusion of the important word speaks volumes.

[howser]

There will be many that disagree on what a clear goalscoring opportunity is, my view is that this wasn't, last man doesn't come into it.

[Ian Royal]

You disagree that it would have been a goalscoring opportunity, where Church would have been through on goal with nobody having any chance of stopping him?
The guy not only blocked the ball with his hand, he also manhandled Church.

Had Fonte not been performing a professional foul, Church would have been through on goal alone, destined to score.

There's a school of thought that says that he only handled the ball because Church shoved him. But quite apart from that, Church didn't have possession of the ball and there was no guarantee he was going to, plus he was far enough from goal with otehr defenders close enough to him that there was no way that was a clear goalscoring opportunity. No complaints with the decision at all.

Small complaint with De Ridder not being booked for a theatrical dive in the box, shortly before he clattered into Mills for an unquestiobale yellow card.

Exactly this.

Why do people persist with the ignorant "last man = auto red card" nonsense. It's clear goalscoring opportunity. There could be half the team back defending and it could still be red. Last man is only an indicator of whether the attacker is through on goal.

Church didn't have the ball under control, had a defender right next to him and several others close, was outside the box and central. Anyone thinking that was a red is deluded or just doesn't understand the rules.

[howser]

Cant disagree with that Ian !

[West Stand Man]

You disagree that it would have been a goalscoring opportunity

A clear one, yes. Your exclusion of the important word speaks volumes.

The important word is opportunity surely? Whether the player would certainly have gone on to score is another issue altogether. Had the ball gone past the Saints defender the probability is that it would have fallen to an unmarked Church with a clear run on goal - which is undoubtedly why he handled it. That is a goal scoring opportunity, surely?

[Libertine]

Should have been a red on Fonte. Church would have been through on goal, unless he got tripped up on his way by a blade of grass, if it wasn't for the handball...

And in fact as it happened I thought "That has to be a red"...

[Platypuss]

You disagree that it would have been a goalscoring opportunity

A clear one, yes. Your exclusion of the important word speaks volumes.

The important word is opportunity surely? Whether the player would certainly have gone on to score is another issue altogether. Had the ball gone past the Saints defender the probability is that it would have fallen to an unmarked Church with a clear run on goal - which is undoubtedly why he handled it. That is a goal scoring opportunity, surely?

If the word "clear" wasn't considered to constitute an important distinction it wouldn't have been included in the laws, would it?

[Platypuss]

Well I look forward to England being denied a goalscoring opportunity by a handball in the Euro Champs, then I will be f'ing quick to remind the hypocrites in this thread about this incident which they wrongfully dismissed.

Classic Ideal non sequitur there. Brilliant.

[Platypuss]

Actaully I'm being a bit of a mongdiv here, aren't I? The words actually used in the Laws now are:

"denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity"

The sense is the same though.

That was never an obvious goal-scoring opportunity (despite me probably being subconsciously biased to the contrary) - Church still had plenty of work to do before it became one.

[If you still hate Futcher]

Sorry Platy I don't agree - the only reason the ball didn't get to Church was because Fonte slapped it away. Church was facing the goal while Fonte had to turn and no other defender was within 15 yards of him. Had the ball got to him he would easily have got to the edge of the box before anyone could get back to challenge.

The key word for me is opportunity and and for me at least it's obvious Church would have had one. I thought the ref didn't send him off because it was so early in the game.

[Platypuss]

There was another defender about 5 yards away though.

[West Stand Man]

If the word "clear" wasn't considered to constitute an important distinction it wouldn't have been included in the laws, would it?

I was agreeing with you, in principle. Sad that isn't it!!

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Well I look forward to England being denied a goalscoring opportunity by a handball in the Euro Champs, then I will be f'ing quick to remind the hypocrites in this thread about this incident which they wrongfully dismissed.

You think Reading fans would care more about an England match than a Reading one?


The thing that annoyed me about the ref was that twice he got corners wrong when all the players thought the decision was wrong.

You would think that if all the players on both teams were taking positions for a goal kick then common sense would kick in, and the ref might realise that it's not a corner. Similarly, if both teams are getting ready for an obvious corner, it would seem slightly unlikely thart they were all wrong and it should be a goal kick.

[comeonyouroyals]

Unless you've got the intellect of a dead spaniel, like Spacey.

Anyone thinking that was a red is deluded or just doesn't understand the rules.

Do you ever wonder why nobody seems to agree with you on here? You come up with alot of sensible comments but you ruin 99% of them because you just can't help but pick a fight everytime someone has a different opinion to you. Would it harm you to acknowledge that you other peoples opinions could be right ever?

[ZacNaloen]

Did the keeper really get to the ball first?

I sit that side of the goal and it looked to me like Manset knocked the ball forward and was then taken clean out. But also if Manset hadn't of been taken out that he would have had a decent chance of putting a cross in with the keeper in no mans land.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Did the keeper really get to the ball first?

I sit that side of the goal and it looked to me like Manset knocked the ball forward and was then taken clean out. But also if Manset hadn't of been taken out that he would have had a decent chance of putting a cross in with the keeper in no mans land.

Yes, the keeper did. At the match I was screaming for a penalty because it looked like the keeper dived across studs up, but looking at the replay I can see he clearly got the ball first and then Manset went over his legs.

[If you still hate Futcher]

I had a great view of this from the North Stand. Never a penalty and a great tackle by the keeper but I bet if it had been anyone else but Manset bearing down on him he'd have gone at it with his hands.

There was another defender about 5 yards away though.

I think you're being deceived by foreshortening on the first angle. Seeing it live it looked as if no-one else was within 15 yards but having seen it again the other centreback is probably around 10 yards away but he would've had to run round La Fonte to get to Church who was even closer to the goal than it looked to me originally.

[Svlad Cjelli]

There's no way any of those centre backs would have been fast enough to catch Church, who is quite quick, if Church has a 10 yard head start. It's never happening.

No way to tell - just like there's no way to tell that Church will even get the ball under control - it's up in the air, not on the ground at his feet.

It *might* have turned into a goalscoring opportunity - it certainly was a promising position. But there's no way it can be called an *obvious* goalscoring opportunity with any degree of certainty.

[Bandini]

Bearing in mind the fact that it was Church, I don't see how any ref could have decided that it was an obvious goal scoring opportunity.