No English player in starting 11

[grey_squirrel]

Perhaps more apt, is he not saying "No player in the team who have - or not likely to have - England as their represented International Country" ?

[Lovely hot donuts!]

I do actually think it's an interesting point. If we take nationality as country the player has represented or would choose to represent then it might be the first time it's ever happened. (As for Akpan, he was born in Liverpool and not played for anyone but expressed his interest in playing for Nigeria)
However, there has been a rapid decline in the number of English players in the Reading team since the last time we were in the Premiership. If you think about the team that won the championship in 2005/06, there was six "english" players (Shorey, Harper, Sidwell, Little, Kitson, Lita) that were in the starting XI fairly regularly. (This number however is diminished by how little the team was changed around. This is six from 15 players who regularly played as opposed to the twenty-something in other years).

In the 2006/07 season there was really only five who were involved regularly due to Kitson spending most of the season out with injury. Also Dubbery was involved in a handful of games towards the end of the season but not enough to describe him as regular.

In 2007/08 we were back up to six "english" regulars (Shorey, Rosenior, Dubbery, Harper, Kitson, Lita).

In 2008/09 though we had a drop down to just three/ four (Dubbery, Rosenior, Harper and possibly Armstrong who played for both England U20s and Scotland B)

In 2009/10 it was up to four (Bertand, Griffin, Mills and Howard who wanted to play for Scotland but was sort of ineligible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Howard_(footballer)#International_career) and had played for England at youth level)

In 2010/11 it was just three (Griffin, Mills, Howard)

Last season it was still three (Cummings, J. Mills, Le Fondre)

This season, however, there has been just the one (Shorey).

So, as much as everyone else has been dismissive, I do think it's an interesting trend. I've skimmed through line-ups of the last few years and I think this could be the first time it's happened but as you can see, this point has been inevitable.


NB: I've classed "regular" as having started at least a third of games.

[kevan]

In a strange paradox England is a country, so is Wales, Scotland and so is the UK which is defined as a country but made up of different countries. Britain is technically an island. According to the passport office and US immigration we are UK citizens first and foremost. I am English first.

[RoyalJames101]

This season, however, there has been just the one (Shorey).

Guthrie? Morrison? McCarthy? Le Fondre?

[Lovely hot donuts!]

I couldn't help but look it up. I've looked at the line for the season in the last programme of the season from the 2005/06 season onwards and I've found one other occasion of no "english" players in the starting XI. This was on the 20th August 2011 when we lost 2-1 at home to Barnsley and the line-up was: Federici, Gunnarsson, Harte, Pearce, Khumalo, Leigertwood, Karacan, McAnuff, Kebe, Hunt, Robson-Kanu. Furthermore, unlike Saturday, neither of the subs that came on (Church & Manset) were "english" either.

So the answer is, no this is the second time it's happened.
(There may have been an instance before the 2005/06 season but it seems unlikely).

[Lovely hot donuts!]

This season, however, there has been just the one (Shorey).

Guthrie? Morrison? McCarthy? Le Fondre?

See my NB, started at least one third of the season. These have all started less than that.

[UpThePrem]

Legs was also born in Enfield, England.

[If you still hate Futcher]

I couldn't help but look it up. I've looked at the line for the season in the last programme of the season from the 2005/06 season onwards and I've found one other occasion of no "english" players in the starting XI. This was on the 20th August 2011 when we lost 2-1 at home to Barnsley and the line-up was: Federici, Gunnarsson, Harte, Pearce, Khumalo, Leigertwood, Karacan, McAnuff, Kebe, Hunt, Robson-Kanu. Furthermore, unlike Saturday, neither of the subs that came on (Church & Manset) were "english" either.

So the answer is, no this is the second time it's happened.
(There may have been an instance before the 2005/06 season but it seems unlikely).

That would explain why we were so dire that day.

Doesn't this just show that our players are getting better and getting more exposure, so the ones of " indistinct" nationality are approached by minor nations whereas previously they would've been overlooked

[Lovely hot donuts!]

I couldn't help but look it up. I've looked at the line for the season in the last programme of the season from the 2005/06 season onwards and I've found one other occasion of no "english" players in the starting XI. This was on the 20th August 2011 when we lost 2-1 at home to Barnsley and the line-up was: Federici, Gunnarsson, Harte, Pearce, Khumalo, Leigertwood, Karacan, McAnuff, Kebe, Hunt, Robson-Kanu. Furthermore, unlike Saturday, neither of the subs that came on (Church & Manset) were "english" either.

So the answer is, no this is the second time it's happened.
(There may have been an instance before the 2005/06 season but it seems unlikely).

That would explain why we were so dire that day.

Doesn't this just show that our players are getting better and getting more exposure, so the ones of " indistinct" nationality are approached by minor nations whereas previously they would've been overlooked

That is probably the case.

[grey_squirrel]

The qualifying criteria for Nationality has been so watered down over the years basically all you have to claim to qualify for "your" Country is if your next door neighbours tortoise was conceived here. Just look at *our* cricket team.

On an aside, and for the oldies amongst us, wasn't Bobby Lenarduzzi our first overseas International?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lenarduzzi

Looks like he is still holding it together. Would be good to see him invited back sometime.

[Ascotexgunner]

Thing is about this point is that its not as if we are say, Arsenal or Chelsea from a few years back where all their players are 'imports'. Without stating the obvious names the majority are English based or came through the ranks here.

[TBM]

Shocking thread

[Royalwaster]

I suspect McAnuff/Akpan et al, have British Passports and British citizenship. I'm English, but would be eligible for the Welsh squad.

I'd say Legs is in the same category.

[sputnik]

On an aside, and for the oldies amongst us, wasn't Bobby Lenarduzzi our first overseas International?

Hugh Davey played for us and Ireland in the 1920s

[Great Knolly]

A lot of those players are essentially english players. If they thought they had a good chance of an England cap, the likes of McAnuff, Pearce and Leigertwood would be English.

[Scutterbucketz]

I understand Jimmy Kebe could qualify as English if he wanted to.

[yappy]

I couldn't help but look it up. I've looked at the line for the season in the last programme of the season from the 2005/06 season onwards and I've found one other occasion of no "english" players in the starting XI. This was on the 20th August 2011 when we lost 2-1 at home to Barnsley and the line-up was:

Federici,
Gunnarsson,
Harte,
Pearce, Born in Wallingford, Oxfordshire
Khumalo,
Leigertwood, Born in Enfield, London
Karacan, Born in Catford, London
McAnuff, Born in Edmonton, London
Kebe,
Hunt,
Robson-Kanu. Born in Acton, London

5 English born players..... Can anyone save this car crash of a thread and tell us if we actually have ever played without any English players?

[gazzer, loyal royal]

if Scotland get independence i can have dual nationality. I was born in England, but to Scottish parents, and am the first in my family to be born over the border, and I have always considered myself to be Scottish, even though i wasn't born there.

My dad always uses the term - "Just because you're born in stable doesn't make you a horse".

i think what my point is, even if you are born in another country, but you're roots are firmly grown in another country, you have the choice to pick.

[royal_ross]

if Scotland get independence i can have dual nationality. I was born in England, but to Scottish parents, and am the first in my family to be born over the border, and I have always considered myself to be Scottish, even though i wasn't born there.

My dad always uses the term - "Just because you're born in stable doesn't make you a horse".

i think what my point is, even if you are born in another country, but you're roots are firmly grown in another country, you have the choice to pick.

Same as me, Dad's Scottish & Mum's English so I could play for either, even though I consider myself English over Scottish doesn't mean I am any less proud to be half-Scottish.

I know a few people who regard themselves as Irish/Scottish over English, depends on the family history I suppose, same with Pearcey, Church, Robson-Kanu, McAnuff etc.

[TBM]

So going by Robs logic, does this mean Tony Cascarino is Irish?!