Are The Youngsters Being Frozen Out?

[SCIAG]

This isn't a new issue. We've been much too conservative for too long. We spent years playing Hope Akpan when we had Aaron Tshibola.

We need to stop sending players on pointless loans that don't seem to do much for them as footballers, and just blood them in the first team once they're good enough. No more signing average players who won't get in the first team to play ahead of the likes of Stacey, Fosu, Kuhl, Kelly, and Tanner. These are very talented young men who should be an injury or sale away from playing for us.

The sale of Norwood should have been Kuhl's chance, instead we've signed two obscure new defensive midfielders who won't both play at the same time. Losing John and HRK justified signing Beerens, but are Harriott and Meite really that much better subs than Stacey and Fosu (or even Tanner or Barrett out of position)? At centre back, why are we persisting with a midfielder who clearly isn't up to it rather than one of our seven centre backs between 18 and 22?

If Chelsea can send their young players on loan to the Championship then we can use our young players in the Championship.

[Vision]

Fosu vs Derby away a couple of seasons ago was like and then nothing. Clearly the boy can play....we've all seen it. So why the permanent exclusion?

Its not just Stam though is it?

Clarke and Mcdermott didn't make him a part of their plans either. And even in arguably the most important game in Accrington Stanley's history, he didn't make the pitch either.

As you say, he appears from the outside to have the ability (I see he scored for the U-23's midweek) but clearly there's something missing if that's not enough for 4 managers to trust him in ames that really matter.

[Vision]

If we were giving youngsters a go and were struggling I imagine the fans would be significantly more patient. It's no surprise fans are quick to air their frustration when we lose games, change nothing, then continue to lose more games.

You might well imagine that to be true and I'd certainly like to think so but in reality that simply doesn't happen. You've only go to look at the utter shite Jake Cooper was subjected to during and after the game to see it doesn't happen as we would like.

I do take you general point though but it's happened under several managers now though so as much as we might say these players are good enough, consecutive managers watching them at close quarters have come to the conclusion that they're not ready yet.

[George_]

Losing John and HRK justified signing Beerens, but are Harriott and Meite really that much better subs than Stacey and Fosu (or even Tanner or Barrett out of position)?

Yes.

[Hoop Blah]

I kind of agree with SCIAG's point of view but I'm still not convinced the kids are as good as we hope and think they are. None of them have really torn up the leagues on their loan spells and hence demanded inclusion at a higher level on their return (although to be fair to them, they haven't bombed).

I'd love to see them given more of a chance though, especially Stacey, Tanner and Kuhl who have all impressed me in their cameos for the first team and represent types of player I think we've lacked at times.

[Lower West]

This isn't a new issue. We've been much too conservative for too long. We spent years playing Hope Akpan when we had Aaron Tshibola.

The kid came good after a season long loan spell. Wasn't in Clarke's plans at all before that.

The academy sides have to adapt to the first team formation. Then in time there'll be natural replacements coming through. Early days for the Stam & Co revolution. Lots of work to be done.

Probably a third of the new signings won't last the full 3 years of their contracts. For a variety of reasons. Plenty of opportunities will rise.

[Simon's Church]

Obviously the other managers in the football league feel the same way about Kuhl as stam, mcdermott and Clarke did. He's gone to Boreham wood til January

[Saaaaaaaammmmmm]

I think it's an interesting debate on what makes a youngster 'ready' so to speak, you'd hardly look at Kuhl and think he's technically insufficient, or Fosu and think he's not up to the pace, Cooper not physical enough etc.

The youngsters who have come through our academy will have likely spent around half their life training with Reading, are they really significantly worse footballers than what we're seeing in the first team?

I'm always intrigued by the differences in ability throughout the leagues and those players who move seamlessly through them both up and down. Obviously there's Jamie Vardy who for much of his career wasn't good enough for league football, yet last season was the Premier League Champion's top scorer, however there's those who are almost his reverse and drop down the leagues at a rate nobody could have predicted.

For example how does Julian Kelly go from good enough to start for us against the league champions in 2009, to five years later aged 24 playing in the NPL Division One South for Spalding Utd? Was Kelly completely out of his depth when he helped us keep a clean sheet? If not then why has he ended up no better than six divisions below where he began?

See also: Scott Davies (last seen at Wealdstone and Dunstable Town following a MoM performance against Chelsea), Peter Castle (last seen at Sholing after playing Championship football aged 16), and Nicholas Bignall (now at Hungerford Town following his injury problems)

Players like Aaron Kuhl were being linked to Premier League sides like Man City and Arsenal not that long ago yet what's to stop them dropping into the Non-Leagues and not making it as a professional? As a bit of a non-expert at football I do wonder what the differences are between those Championship regulars and the ones who make fleeting appearances at a high level before disappearing from the Football League all together?


EDIT: So I literally posted this before I read the news about Kuhl heading to non-league, there's an answer

[3points]

I'm going to reserve judgement on the new signings until I've seen some of them play (first game of the season tomorrow) but I do see some of the signings and think are they really better than our youth players, many of whom are now in their early 20s. I can't see why Gravenberch has been signed. We now seem to have another bloated squad but as others have stated we still lack quality and depth at key positions.

Stam and Brian have really not done what they said about using youth and signing experienced Championship players. I really fear we are going to regret that.

[Lower West]

As a bit of a non-expert at football I do wonder what the differences are between those Championship regulars and the ones who make fleeting appearances at a high level before disappearing from the Football League all together?

Application and mental strength. People mature at different speeds. Sidwell eventually found himself back in the premiership. Had all the qualities. Just needed the time to develop.

[maffff]

Obviously the other managers in the football league feel the same way about Kuhl as stam, mcdermott and Clarke did. He's gone to Boreham wood til January

Was thinking about Kuhl earlier, has he been loaned to a lower level to work on his physicality...?

[Ian Royal]

Obviously the other managers in the football league feel the same way about Kuhl as stam, mcdermott and Clarke did. He's gone to Boreham wood til January

Was thinking about Kuhl earlier, has he been loaned to a lower level to work on his physicality...?

My concern is that he had it slightly easy with his dad on the coaching staff, which combined with interest from Man City a couple of seasons ago made him think he was there, when in reality he needed to knuckle down and progress. The snippets I've seen of him since his break into the first team suggest he's too casual in possession and just hasn't improved.

[paultheroyal]

With our top youngest going to the likes of Plymouth and Boreham Wood, it's not a case of them being frozen out but more that they are clearly not good enough at this level.

[Lower West]

With our top youngest going to the likes of Plymouth and Boreham Wood, it's not a case of them being frozen out but more that they are clearly not good enough at this level.

Is Tanner better off playing another 50 games for Plymouth for a season. Or playing reserve games at Reading with the occasional bench warming appearance. Will still only be 22 next summer.

[GloucestershireRoyal]

What is the point in having an academy if you're not going to use the players from said academy in the first team? Farcical.

Having said that, however, I am firmly against mixing members of the first team / academy together. If you are going to play one academy player, you should be forced to play the other ten to whom they played with in the youth side. That is my belief, anyway.

[NewCorkSeth]

What is the point in having an academy if you're not going to use the players from said academy in the first team? Farcical.

Having said that, however, I am firmly against mixing members of the first team / academy together. If you are going to play one academy player, you should be forced to play the other ten to whom they played with in the youth side. That is my belief, anyway.

Am I about to bite?

[Ian Royal]

What is the point in having an academy if you're not going to use the players from said academy in the first team? Farcical.

Having said that, however, I am firmly against mixing members of the first team / academy together. If you are going to play one academy player, you should be forced to play the other ten to whom they played with in the youth side. That is my belief, anyway.

Am I about to bite?

It must be a fishing trip.

[GloucestershireRoyal]

What is the point in having an academy if you're not going to use the players from said academy in the first team? Farcical.

Having said that, however, I am firmly against mixing members of the first team / academy together. If you are going to play one academy player, you should be forced to play the other ten to whom they played with in the youth side. That is my belief, anyway.

Am I about to bite?

It must be a fishing trip.

Why would you think that? I just believe that it would stop players being left behind in the academy and their careers ruined by clubs who want to only mix 1/2 youth players with the rest of the senior squad.

[Tankite]

I think Stam is a clever guy but, you have to remember, this is his first foray into Management and if he f*cks it up he may not get another job. He is in a club with good precedents although a road-crash reputation over the last couple of years. He knows the way he wants to play and he knows which positions he needs to fill (there was a mass exodus at the end of last season).

If there was an absolute star in our academy, he would have a squad number, At the moment, we are still in the transfer market and I doubt that Stam wants to fully number the squad until the end of the Window. Even a player he may have wanted to bring up to the first team, may have been loaned if the offer was good enough, should that have added to funds.

We can only judge all this, initially, on 1st September, but later when he holds forth about the Academy guys and what future he sees for them.

[SCIAG]

With our top youngest going to the likes of Plymouth and Boreham Wood, it's not a case of them being frozen out but more that they are clearly not good enough at this level.

You can't judge a player based on where they go on loan. You need to judge it based on watching them play.

Kuhl and Tanner are better players than Tshibola, who went to Hartlepool when he was good enough to be starting for us, came back without having improved much, went into the team and got sold for £5m. There's every reason to think that they'd succeed if we played them, particularly given that they've both looked more than capable when they've played.

To be honest those two have really been harmed by their loans so far, we'd have been much better off keeping them at Reading and giving them minutes than sending them out to watch the ball fly over their heads.