Gunter

[Woodcote Royal]

He has 81 International caps for Wales (who are a far better team than England)

A serious contender for the biggest load of sh*te I've read this season.

Wales is essentially Bale +10, but even with that one world class player, man for man, they should be a long way short of any side England are capable of fielding. Hodgson's managerial shortcomings do not make Gunter comparable to Danny Rose and Kyle Walker or even remotely in the same ball park

In fact, what puts Gunter in the same ball park as Murty or Shorey not to mention several other impressive full backs we have had down the years. Gunter or Gilksie, anyone?

The fact he's played so many games for Wales probably says more about the average Welsh player than Gunter himself. Who, of any note, has Gunter's 80 appearance prevented from gaining a Welsh cap

Both Murty and Shorey were far superior defenders and despite the latter's legendary one footedness and lack of pace, he regularly got forward to deliver quality crosses and buried several well taken free kicks with a very decent left foot.

Gunter, frankly, is a p!ss poor defender who spends most of his time backing off his man thus allowing countless crosses into the box that should never arrive. Meanwhile, if and when he gets forward, I doubt he averages one decent cross a match.

I'd love McCleary to be given a crack in his place but can't see him having any appetite for doing his mate out of a place in the side.

[Henley Royal 1]

From what i have seen this season there is nothing wrong with Mclearys appetite

[leon]

He has 81 International caps for Wales (who are a far better team than England)

A serious contender for the biggest load of sh*te I've read this season.

Wales is essentially Bale +10, but even with that one world class player, man for man, they should be a long way short of any side England are capable of fielding. Hodgson's managerial shortcomings do not make Gunter comparable to Danny Rose and Kyle Walker or even remotely in the same ball park

In fact, what puts Gunter in the same ball park as Murty or Shorey not to mention several other impressive full backs we have had down the years. Gunter or Gilksie, anyone?

The fact he's played so many games for Wales probably says more about the average Welsh player than Gunter himself. Who, of any note, has Gunter's 80 appearance prevented from gaining a Welsh cap

Both Murty and Shorey were far superior defenders and despite the latter's legendary one footedness and lack of pace, he regularly got forward to deliver quality crosses and buried several well taken free kicks with a very decent left foot.

Gunter, frankly, is a p!ss poor defender who spends most of his time backing off his man thus allowing countless crosses into the box that should never arrive. Meanwhile, if and when he gets forward, I doubt he averages one decent cross a match.

I'd love McCleary to be given a crack in his place but can't see him having any appetite for doing his mate out of a place in the side.

Give it a rest you little Englander. Yeah Wales aren't all world beaters - but football is about the team achieving greater than the sum of the parts. Something England have failed to understand for over 50 (FIFTY) years.

Gunter is OK. He's not the greatest but then, he plays for us. You can't fault his effort and yesterday wasn't the first time he's got back while the rest of the defence were standing watching and blocked/cleared the ball.

And sorry but McCleary looks fcuked. A shame because he was a match winner.

[Lower West]

All players have bad patches. The issue is there's no one currently to fight him for the place in the team. Unless Stam is playing McCleary with the intention of getting him fit and then using him as a wing back.

[Woodcote Royal]

He has 81 International caps for Wales (who are a far better team than England)

A serious contender for the biggest load of sh*te I've read this season.

Wales is essentially Bale +10, but even with that one world class player, man for man, they should be a long way short of any side England are capable of fielding. Hodgson's managerial shortcomings do not make Gunter comparable to Danny Rose and Kyle Walker or even remotely in the same ball park

In fact, what puts Gunter in the same ball park as Murty or Shorey not to mention several other impressive full backs we have had down the years. Gunter or Gilksie, anyone?

The fact he's played so many games for Wales probably says more about the average Welsh player than Gunter himself. Who, of any note, has Gunter's 80 appearance prevented from gaining a Welsh cap

Both Murty and Shorey were far superior defenders and despite the latter's legendary one footedness and lack of pace, he regularly got forward to deliver quality crosses and buried several well taken free kicks with a very decent left foot.

Gunter, frankly, is a p!ss poor defender who spends most of his time backing off his man thus allowing countless crosses into the box that should never arrive. Meanwhile, if and when he gets forward, I doubt he averages one decent cross a match.

I'd love McCleary to be given a crack in his place but can't see him having any appetite for doing his mate out of a place in the side.

Give it a rest you little Englander. Yeah Wales aren't all world beaters - but football is about the team achieving greater than the sum of the parts. Something England have failed to understand for over 50 (FIFTY) years.

Gunter is OK. He's not the greatest but then, he plays for us. You can't fault his effort and yesterday wasn't the first time he's got back while the rest of the defence were standing watching and blocked/cleared the ball.

And sorry but McCleary looks fcuked. A shame because he was a match winner.

I couldn't agree more that England have massively under achieved over the years but if Gunter is the best right back Wales has to offer, remove Bale and you've got a national team that would struggle in the Championship.

[bobby1413]

I couldn't agree more that England have massively under achieved over the years but if Gunter is the best right back Wales has to offer, remove Bale and you've got a national team that would struggle in the Championship.

Really? Have you seen their squad and you think they would struggle in the Championship?

It's full of PL regulars

Hennessy from palace
Ashley Williams (Everton)
Ben Davis (Spurs)
Joe Ledley (Derby)

Aaron ramsey (Arse)
Joe Allen (Stoke)
Sam Vokes (Burnley)

HRK (funny how again everyone but Reading seems to think he's good)

That's the only players I can be bothered to mention. I doubt this lot would struggle in the Championship.

[leon]

A serious contender for the biggest load of sh*te I've read this season.

Wales is essentially Bale +10, but even with that one world class player, man for man, they should be a long way short of any side England are capable of fielding. Hodgson's managerial shortcomings do not make Gunter comparable to Danny Rose and Kyle Walker or even remotely in the same ball park

In fact, what puts Gunter in the same ball park as Murty or Shorey not to mention several other impressive full backs we have had down the years. Gunter or Gilksie, anyone?

The fact he's played so many games for Wales probably says more about the average Welsh player than Gunter himself. Who, of any note, has Gunter's 80 appearance prevented from gaining a Welsh cap

Both Murty and Shorey were far superior defenders and despite the latter's legendary one footedness and lack of pace, he regularly got forward to deliver quality crosses and buried several well taken free kicks with a very decent left foot.

Gunter, frankly, is a p!ss poor defender who spends most of his time backing off his man thus allowing countless crosses into the box that should never arrive. Meanwhile, if and when he gets forward, I doubt he averages one decent cross a match.

I'd love McCleary to be given a crack in his place but can't see him having any appetite for doing his mate out of a place in the side.

Give it a rest you little Englander. Yeah Wales aren't all world beaters - but football is about the team achieving greater than the sum of the parts. Something England have failed to understand for over 50 (FIFTY) years.

Gunter is OK. He's not the greatest but then, he plays for us. You can't fault his effort and yesterday wasn't the first time he's got back while the rest of the defence were standing watching and blocked/cleared the ball.

And sorry but McCleary looks fcuked. A shame because he was a match winner.

I couldn't agree more that England have massively under achieved over the years but if Gunter is the best right back Wales has to offer, remove Bale and you've got a national team that would struggle in the Championship.

Well Bobbs has pointed out a few flaws in your argument.

I'd say that it's not about the individuals it's about how they play as a team. And with football, the team is EVERYTHING. That's why Wales, Iceland, Denmark, Portugal etc etc can do well with a limited team and England and Netherlands (the two most underperforming sides ever?) fail every time.

Anyway Gunter works well in the Wales team that has done OK, so what is it that he doesn't do for Reading. I am struggling to pick him out as one of the worst performers. Afterall - he gets fcuk all protection from the midfield.

[Hound]

Gunter is a decent fb. Agree he hasn't had a great start to the season and he isn't as positive as he should be at times

It's difficult to know how much of that is coming from the manager though

He plays best when he has his buddy McCleary directly in front of him, but that's not been happening this year

[bcubed]

Gunter is a decent fb. Agree he hasn't had a great start to the season and he isn't as positive as he should be at times

It's difficult to know how much of that is coming from the manager though

He plays best when he has his buddy McCleary directly in front of him, but that's not been happening this year

tbf they are both at their best when GMac is played in front of Gunter

[muirinho]

Give it a rest you little Englander. Yeah Wales aren't all world beaters - but football is about the team achieving greater than the sum of the parts. Something England have failed to understand for over 50 (FIFTY) years.

Gunter is OK. He's not the greatest but then, he plays for us. You can't fault his effort and yesterday wasn't the first time he's got back while the rest of the defence were standing watching and blocked/cleared the ball.

And sorry but McCleary looks fcuked. A shame because he was a match winner.

I couldn't agree more that England have massively under achieved over the years but if Gunter is the best right back Wales has to offer, remove Bale and you've got a national team that would struggle in the Championship.

Well Bobbs has pointed out a few flaws in your argument.

I'd say that it's not about the individuals it's about how they play as a team. And with football, the team is EVERYTHING. That's why Wales, Iceland, Denmark, Portugal etc etc can do well with a limited team and England and Netherlands (the two most underperforming sides ever?) fail every time.

Anyway Gunter works well in the Wales team that has done OK, so what is it that he doesn't do for Reading. I am struggling to pick him out as one of the worst performers. Afterall - he gets fcuk all protection from the midfield.

It's not so much what he doesn't do for Reading, it's what Reading doesn't do for him.
People mention about him not attacking "like he used to", or "like he does for Wales". Well that's because he spends half the game hanging about on the half way line, trying to stay onside, and waiting for somebody to chuck in a pass ahead of him, for him to run onto and cross. Find his heatmap on whoscored and I'll guarantee, he's in miles of space for lots of the game, and it's not being made use of.

Either the pass is behind him, or it's WAY in front, and he can't get there, or it's directly to him, but after waiting long enough for his opposite number to come and mark him. And since he's never been able to take on his man and beat him, that means he's going to have to pass again. He's also reasonably decent with one-two's - but again, if McCleary isn't playing, who's he going to have those with? No championship fullback's crosses are perfect but when he does cross, there's nobody there, so it wouldn't matter if they were amazing. Also, he's more inclined to overhit than underhit - why is the winger or full back on the other side not running in on the far side of the penalty area?

And as you've already mentioned - defensively, he's often horribly exposed by his midfielders (and this season, also by McShane being very wobbly alongside him).

So basically, he appears to play better for Wales because (a) Wales have better players than us - anybody who doesn't think so is deluded, and (b) they have a plan where everybody knows exactly how everybody else is going to play. We can't do anything about (a), but we should be able to do something about (b), and as far as I can see, we haven't had that since Coppell. Incidentally, I think if Gunter was transplanted into the 106 team, but played exactly the way he does now, he would be much better regarded.

All of our players have their faults. None of them can win a game singlehandedly. You could do a similar sort of analysis for any of them - they'd be better if their colleagues played to their strengths, or the formation was tweaked to suit them etc. It's not earth-shattering analysis

But yeah, he seems to catch way more than stick than he deserves, while other players get away with murder in comparison.

[bobby1413]

But yeah, he seems to catch way more than stick than he deserves, while other players get away with murder in comparison.

Some good posts here that actually put across some reasoned arguments rather than "Gunter is sh*t" (which he isn't).

Just on your last point Muirinho... it's also unfair regarding how much stick he gets considering what a great servant he's been for the club. I've not heard him moan once, or say anything out of line, or be out with injuries for extended periods of time, etc... He's been loyal as far as I can tell throughout his entire time here, more than can be said for some other players who have left over the last couple of years.

[John Smith]

Four different managers have made Gunter captain - surely that means something?

[muirinho]

But yeah, he seems to catch way more than stick than he deserves, while other players get away with murder in comparison.

Some good posts here that actually put across some reasoned arguments rather than "Gunter is sh*t" (which he isn't).

Just on your last point Muirinho... it's also unfair regarding how much stick he gets considering what a great servant he's been for the club. I've not heard him moan once, or say anything out of line, or be out with injuries for extended periods of time, etc... He's been loyal as far as I can tell throughout his entire time here, more than can be said for some other players who have left over the last couple of years.

tbf injuries is a lot of luck/build. But there's no doubt he always wants to play, which managers like, and is utterly professional in taking care of himself so that he's always fit. Ngl, he's probably nice, but very boring, in real life - he'd be one of the "bed at 9pm all season" types.

But on that whole "playing as much as he possibly can" thing - he stuck his head into a boot trying to clear the ball, season before last, and ended up with stitches on his eyelid - there were then "fans" mocking him because he played the next couple of games with a ridiculous-looking flappy bandage which was clearly designed to protect his eye without actually blinding him. He could easily have refused to play at all, and there's plenty of other players who would have done exactly that. You get a fan favourite like, say, Pearcey, or Liam Moore doing the same, you'd get all this "what a hero" comments for playing on. But it's Gunter - so, nope. Instead he's a wimp for needing a bandage over a fake injury. Or something.

I seem to spend a lot of my time on these boards defending him - and it's not like he's my favourite player or anything even remotely close to that. But injustice always gets to me, and he's definitely unfairly maligned.

[Snowflake Royal]

Four different managers have made Gunter captain - surely that means something?

Unless you mean he's deputised on field when the actual captain's injured because he's vice captain, no they haven't. One did, he was shit at it, the same manager dropped him from captaincy. Iirc.

[muirinho]

Four different managers have made Gunter captain - surely that means something?

Unless you mean he's deputised on field when the actual captain's injured because he's vice captain, no they haven't. One did, he was shit at it, the same manager dropped him from captaincy. Iirc.

Not true, Adkins appointed him captain after Karacan left, it was Clarke who dropped him (and then appointed Hector as vice captain over him).
It's not unusual for a new manager in to appoint a new captain, but seeing as Clarke didn't appoint him vice captain either, he obviously didn't rate his leadership skills that highly. Or else simply wanted a complete break from the previous regime. No evidence that Gunter threw his toys out of the pram at a public demotion, some definitely would have, but he just got on with stuff.

What do you mean by "shit at it"? Do you mean he single-handedly didn't make an underperforming side perform during his brief tenure between Karacan and Adkins departures? Well that just proves everything, doesn't it. But, then, Pearce and Hector didn't cover themselves with glory either. They were fine when things were going well, but generally didn't show when they weren't. And Macca couldn't get the team to shake off their general lethargy under McDermott. So you could say ALL of those three were failures. That is, if you feel inclined to blame a team's woes on the captain.

He was acting captain in a lot of games last season - some of which went well, some didn't. Overall I'd say he did as good a job as Macca did.

[Jagermesiter1871]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41469355

[Snowflake Royal]

What. The. Actual. oxf*rd.

[72 bus]

He plays best when he has his buddy McCleary directly in front of him, but that's not been happening this year

That because Stam has no idea at all, perhaps someone should tell him

[alfie9]

Gunter > Bale confirmed

[muirinho]

What. The. Actual. oxf*rd.

He'll be Wales captain before you know it