Gate figure conspiracy-gate?

[JR]

My group have a predict the attendance game and it is widely accepted that you do an estimated count of the crowd and then add on 20%.

Fun group of guys, love to see you lot when you really let your hair down.

BBC Sport match stats game if we are really going crazy - now those stats are really unbelievable!

[Kitsondinho]

Don’t care that much about the figures, but the thread title needs amending ASAP
Attendancegategate
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vB9JgxhXW5w

[North Somerset Royal]

But presumably not counting absent STH.

For the last x years it's been the policy of almost all clubs to report gates on a tickets sold basis

This bollox about counting season ticket sales in crowd attendances is a total myth.

The official attendance is simply how many people go through the turnstile each game.

Just imagine hypothetically 500 hundred people turn up Saturday , plus 3000 Leeds fans, how in gods earth could the crowd be announced as 15,000 or what ever ?

Well a few years back I asked the club how the official attendance figures were calculated and this was their reply which I posted on Club Policies at the time

In common with the majority of clubs, the attendance figure announced at Madejski Stadium is the total number of tickets sold.
Best wishes
Andy West

Reading FC

People saying that there has been a sudden change of policy are spot on.

[Jackson Corner]

I believe we have around 8k season ticket holders. A lot of those are not bothering to come perfectly understandable. Prior to the Sheffield United game they were always included in the gate. Every club does it as one previous poster put Arsenal the most laughable culprits.
The question is why all of a sudden have Reading been the only side in the football league to start giving out the genuine attendance? I’m amazed so little has been made of this? It looks embarrassing only Burton having less than us.
As usual BBCRB or Get Reading make no mention of it. Maybe they are part of the conspiracy?
We have a manager with one win in fifteen games an is unsackable. And record low attendances
At this level and no one bats an eyelid. We have owners that are no where to be seen, am I the only one who is genuinely concerned about the long term future of this football club?

[RG30]

Midweek league attendances this season;

Aston Villa 15/08/17 - 20,144 (3,935 away fans)
Nottingham Forest 31/10/17 - 14,868 (1,282 away fans)
Barnsley 28/11/17 - 13,317 (336 away fans)
Cardiff 11/12/17 - 11,307 (1,383 away fans)
Birmingham 02/01/18 - 14,491 (1,135 away fans)
Sheffield United 27/02/18 - 6,769 (730 away fans)
Bolton 06/03/18 8,631 (484 away fans)

[Fox Talbot]

RG30 s figure for Cardiff looks wrong. In programme it's 16,670 not 11,307.

Jackson I think under estimates the number of STH. I think it's 12,000-12,500. Before Gategate the lowest crowd was Barnsley - 13,317. Take away 300 Tykes = 13,000 home fans i.e. The STH plus match day buyers, not many I'd have thought for this, i.e. 500-1000, therefore my estimate of 12,000+ STH.

It doesn't surprise me half our STH didnt turn up for a rearranged midweek game v Sheffield U during travel chaos when the temperature is minus whatever.

It does surprise me that the real figure is announced and I'm still wondering why the change. Which is why I'm asking the HNA massive for theories.

Jackson is not the only one worried about the future of our club.

[Ingham]

RG30 s figure for Cardiff looks wrong. In programme it's 16,670 not 11,307.

Jackson I think under estimates the number of STH. I think it's 12,000-12,500. Before Gategate the lowest crowd was Barnsley - 13,317. Take away 300 Tykes = 13,000 home fans i.e. The STH plus match day buyers, not many I'd have thought for this, i.e. 500-1000, therefore my estimate of 12,000+ STH.

It doesn't surprise me half our STH didnt turn up for a rearranged midweek game v Sheffield U during travel chaos when the temperature is minus whatever.

It does surprise me that the real figure is announced and I'm still wondering why the change. Which is why I'm asking the HNA massive for theories.

Jackson is not the only one worried about the future of our club.

I think it may be because they realise that to announce a 12,000 or 13,000 crowd (including non attending STHs) when it was clear that there were only 6,000 there would be laughable.

[grey_squirrel]

Surely the way resolve this would be to count the numbers in seats at next home game? With the likely number attending it shouldn't take too long and would be a darn sight more interesting than watching what was going on on the pitch.

[Stranded]

RG30 s figure for Cardiff looks wrong. In programme it's 16,670 not 11,307.

Jackson I think under estimates the number of STH. I think it's 12,000-12,500. Before Gategate the lowest crowd was Barnsley - 13,317. Take away 300 Tykes = 13,000 home fans i.e. The STH plus match day buyers, not many I'd have thought for this, i.e. 500-1000, therefore my estimate of 12,000+ STH.

It doesn't surprise me half our STH didnt turn up for a rearranged midweek game v Sheffield U during travel chaos when the temperature is minus whatever.

It does surprise me that the real figure is announced and I'm still wondering why the change. Which is why I'm asking the HNA massive for theories.

Jackson is not the only one worried about the future of our club.

I think it may be because they realise that to announce a 12,000 or 13,000 crowd (including non attending STHs) when it was clear that there were only 6,000 there would be laughable.

I would hope that the club does not make decision based on if it is "laughable".

Didn't some new guy joing the media department recently, could it be as simple as the new guy has made a policy change or simply made a mistake and listed the wrong figure?

Either way, it's stopping people focusing on the shit on the pitch, so it's done it's job

[Theroyalbox]

Teams do 100% count the number of tickets sold rather than the number of people through the turnstiles, just look at Arsenal Vs Man City last season gave an attendance of over 50,000 when there was probably 20,000 there. There has absolutely been a change of policy and its very well spotted

[Hoop Blah]

Didn't some new guy joing the media department recently, could it be as simple as the new guy has made a policy change or simply made a mistake and listed the wrong figure?

Either way, it's stopping people focusing on the shit on the pitch, so it's done it's job

If it was a mistake they'd surely have made some mention of it, corrected it on the official site at least and certainly not repeated it.

[Barney]

We have just over 12,000 season ticket holders.

In common with ALL regulations, clubs should report the number of tickets sold for that fixture. The money taken from season tickets is deferred in the accounts over the course of a season.

Quite simply, someone at RFC has made an error with both the Sheff utd and Bolton games.

[Hoop Blah]

We have just over 12,000 season ticket holders.

In common with ALL regulations, clubs should report the number of tickets sold for that fixture. The money taken from season tickets is deferred in the accounts over the course of a season.

Quite simply, someone at RFC has made an error with both the Sheff utd and Bolton games.

Surely that's an accounting/reporting regulation but doesn't effect the number the club announce to the general public and media?

[RG30]

RG30 s figure for Cardiff looks wrong. In programme it's 16,670 not 11,307.

I just took the figure off the official site https://www.readingfc.co.uk/matches/fixtures/first-team/201718/december/reading-vs-cardiff-city-on-09-dec-17/#

[Millsy]

We recently employed a Director of Maths who, amongst other calculations, is responsible for attendance figures and working out players' ages for the Under 18s team.

His performance is consistent with that of other new arrivals in the last couple of years so we can't complain.

[Fox Talbot]

RG30 s figure for Cardiff looks wrong. In programme it's 16,670 not 11,307.

I just took the figure off the official site https://www.readingfc.co.uk/matches/fixtures/first-team/201718/december/reading-vs-cardiff-city-on-09-dec-17/#

Interesting! The figure there 11307 would be a credible 'real' gate vs the 16,670 in the programme.

Best suggestion so far as to why is Ingram - don't be laughable. Hasn't stopped Arsenal though!

[Forbury Lion]

Do tickets sales have VAT on them? - If you sell a ticket and it is unused then you could argue that no service was provided, you have refunded the VAT sale and the cash you have collected is therefore VAT free and all yours....... actually, this would explain clubs reporting actual attendance rather than sales.

Perhaps, the caterer contracts etc are based around customer footfall & potential sales, so they want to keep the number as high as possible to get as much £ out of them as the contract allows?

[Greatwesternline]

It can't be a matter of simply how many tickets are sold.

At home in the 2006/7 season we pretty much sold out each game. However, the attendance is different each match, surely it should be the same number every time a match is sold out.

White Hard Lane for example, sold out most weeks in the final season, the attendance still goes up or down by a few hundred here or there.

It must be more complicated than just tickets sold.

Maybe its paying people in the stadium. Would guests such as the back room staff count, or back room scouts from other teams in the league, do those people even have to pay? Who knows

[Norfolk Royal]

Do tickets sales have VAT on them? - If you sell a ticket and it is unused then you could argue that no service was provided, you have refunded the VAT sale and the cash you have collected is therefore VAT free and all yours....... actually, this would explain clubs reporting actual attendance rather than sales.

Perhaps, the caterer contracts etc are based around customer footfall & potential sales, so they want to keep the number as high as possible to get as much £ out of them as the contract allows?

I don't think that works really. The VAT is paid by the customer at the point of sale. Whether they then take up the opportunity for a thrilling night at the Madejski is up to them and, arguably, their loss both financially and culturally if they then decide not to go.

I quite like the theory that there are two attendance figures, turnstile and tickets sold including season, and then we employ a numpty who's handing whoever the wrong statistic. Seems plausible.

[North Somerset Royal]

Could it be related to the planning consent for REP in particular parking provision? The reason I ask is that as reported in the article below Bristol City have changed the basis of reporting to actual bums on seats to avoid a condition imposed when planning consent was granted for the rebuild of Ashton Gate. The article also confirms the normal practice of clubs is to report tickets sold.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bris ... de-1084284

Bristol City Council planners appear to be on a collision course with Bristol City, over just how many people have been attending matches at the stadium And the row looks set to highlight a common practice in football that is becoming increasingly controversial - where clubs publish an official attendance figure which is often higher than the actual number of people who attended the match.
The phenomenon has become much more prominent this season as TV viewers and fans question why clubs such as Arsenal, Manchester City and Manchester United announce they had a capacity crowd, but swathes of empty seats are seen in the stands.
Earlier this week Bristol City confirmed that, like almost all other clubs, the attendance figures it publishes are a total figure of the number of people who had a ticket for the game, rather than the number of people who actually went through the turnstiles.
The club counts season and half-season ticket holders - of which there are around 16,500 - whether or not they turn up, and then adds on the people who bought a one-off ticket to the match.
This matters in Bristol because when the club expanded Ashton Gate to a 27,000-capacity stadium, a condition was written in to the planning permission which requires Bristol City to set up and pay for an extensive matchday parking scheme, which would cover a large area of the residential streets around the ground.