BFTG Stoke

[Victor Meldrew]

1-0 PRESTON
2-2 QPR Away
2-1 MILLWALL
3-0 LUTON
0-1 Brentford Away
0-1 LEEDS
3-1 Wigan Away
2-3 BIRMINGHAM
1-1 Barnsley Away
0-0 Stoke Away

P10 W4 D3 L3 14-10 = 15 Points = a 69-Point Season Equivalent

In this ten-game-spell we have played 2nd, 3rd, 4th and Millwall who are flying

Considering how we looked when Bowen came in, that is VERY decent.

Brentford and Leeds were not terrible results. Only the Birmingham game should be considered a poor result

Yes agree with that, and we have taken points from losing positions in three games, something we rarely did under Gomes/Clement.

An away point anywhere at this time of season is okay in my view.

It is only any good if we win our home games and that is far from a gimme.
Derby and QPR games will tell us more about whether we are likely to stay just about safe or get dragged into the relegation battle.
I would be happy with 4 points from those 2 games, very happy if it were 6, but 2 or less would be worrying.

[NewCorkSeth]

1-0 PRESTON
2-2 QPR Away
2-1 MILLWALL
3-0 LUTON
0-1 Brentford Away
0-1 LEEDS
3-1 Wigan Away
2-3 BIRMINGHAM
1-1 Barnsley Away
0-0 Stoke Away

P10 W4 D3 L3 14-10 = 15 Points = a 69-Point Season Equivalent

In this ten-game-spell we have played 2nd, 3rd, 4th and Millwall who are flying

Considering how we looked when Bowen came in, that is VERY decent.

Brentford and Leeds were not terrible results. Only the Birmingham game should be considered a poor result

Yes agree with that, and we have taken points from losing positions in three games, something we rarely did under Gomes/Clement.

An away point anywhere at this time of season is okay in my view.

It is only any good if we win our home games and that is far from a gimme.
Derby and QPR games will tell us more about whether we are likely to stay just about safe or get dragged into the relegation battle.
I would be happy with 4 points from those 2 games, very happy if it were 6, but 2 or less would be worrying.

I thought we would beat Birmingham and Barnsley so on that evidence I can see us getting 2 points or less.

[Snowflake Royal]

We were shite.

Sorry but there was little to be positive about apart from an away draw.

ZERO shots on target all game.
Just ‘safely’ passing it around the back.

Adam did ok , no one was really shit. Blackett did ok.

Given there was talk of 9 points against these easier sides this was just dismal.

My talking points

1- now we see hw much we miss swift possibly
2- I have little faith in Cabral and his punches
3- have the wheels come off Bowen’s honeymoon?

1- Think that was evident before this game.
2 - As I said a few weeks back - A debate about Rafael is coming.
3 - Dunno. I think he is suffering from certain fans being overly positive early on. His game time tactical decisions are troubling and, even worse, now he is getting to the point (not his fault obviously) where injuries can start being blamed. It's going to be hard to evaluate him when he has had to go so many games where he can, justifiably, look at and say "I didnt get to pick the team I wanted because player X was injured".

Still doing ok.

P10, W4, D3, L3. 1.5 ppg, WWDWLLWLDD
Most our recent managers could only dream of that.

Obviously disappointing that the 'easier' run of games hasn't led to a good string of results. But crucially, we didn't lose to either team below us, and we've maintained a 5 pt gap so far. We're keeping the scoreboard ticking over at least.

Bowen hasn't got everything tight, but we shouldn't forget Gomes left as he found us, in terrible form with an unbalanced squad. And losing Swift and Ejaria at the same time was a big blow.

And we have a game in hand still.

[Millsy]

We were shite.

Sorry but there was little to be positive about apart from an away draw.

ZERO shots on target all game.
Just ‘safely’ passing it around the back.

Adam did ok , no one was really shit. Blackett did ok.

Given there was talk of 9 points against these easier sides this was just dismal.

My talking points

1- now we see hw much we miss swift possibly
2- I have little faith in Cabral and his punches
3- have the wheels come off Bowen’s honeymoon?

1- Think that was evident before this game.
2 - As I said a few weeks back - A debate about Rafael is coming.
3 - Dunno. I think he is suffering from certain fans being overly positive early on. His game time tactical decisions are troubling and, even worse, now he is getting to the point (not his fault obviously) where injuries can start being blamed. It's going to be hard to evaluate him when he has had to go so many games where he can, justifiably, look at and say "I didnt get to pick the team I wanted because player X was injured".

Every manager has to face injuries to first choice players. It's how they cope with that which defines how good a manager they are, not how they do when everything is going their way. Furthermore, we have a much stronger squad in depth than a good many teams in this division (more than one manager from other teams has made envious remarks about that) so Bowen's task should be less difficult.

As for Rafael and particularly his punching, I can't recall his punches getting us into trouble, in fact the opposite. He comes hard, strong and punches with distance. In a recent game, some old 'expert' behind me was giving him stick for opting to punch, rather than catch in a pressured situation and windy conditions. Clearly he hasn't realised that balls have changed, can dip and swerve significantly in flight and no longer have leather laces that a keeper can grab hold of!

Agree re: manager and injuries. Every team has injuries. We have a deep squad as you say.

Disagree about Rafa though. Against Stoke alone he did two punches at least which I would say got us into trouble. Most other punches may not have got us into trouble but very few of them did I ever think “oh I’m glad he did that, well done”. Most of the time I cringe and think why didn’t he catch it... those ones May not get us into trouble but they certainly invite pressure. I’d agree with you about the old git not realising about the wind, but Rafa punches all the time even when it’s perfectly still. We would be fine if he just did it now and then on windy days like most keepers but I’m beginning to lose the faith a bit. I have never thought he’s a good keeper. BUT also he’s definitely not shit, not a liability. He’s just average. He’s not the reason we are doing badly as a team, unless he is totally inept at organising a defence. I shall defer to those who know more about keepers and defence organisation to comment on that one. I’ve rarely played in defence.

[Millsy]

1-0 PRESTON
2-2 QPR Away
2-1 MILLWALL
3-0 LUTON
0-1 Brentford Away
0-1 LEEDS
3-1 Wigan Away
2-3 BIRMINGHAM
1-1 Barnsley Away
0-0 Stoke Away

P10 W4 D3 L3 14-10 = 15 Points = a 69-Point Season Equivalent

In this ten-game-spell we have played 2nd, 3rd, 4th and Millwall who are flying

Considering how we looked when Bowen came in, that is VERY decent.

Brentford and Leeds were not terrible results. Only the Birmingham game should be considered a poor result

Good old stat crunching.

How about we take away the honeymoon period, which everyone knows is a real phenomenon (or to use a ridiculously thick sounding Americanism is a “thing” *puke*). Where do stats take us without the first 4 games?

I hope your more positive stats are correct and we continue to do well. I like Bowen. Of course we all want him to succeed.

But it is equally valid to call honeymoon on the early games or at the very least concede that something seems to have slipped quite worryingly, with some strange tactical calls in recent weeks, Stamball making a comeback etc etc. Our game plan against Stoke was basically “Pass it around the back to death and then give it to Adam to launch one up the pitch for Baldock to win against a player twice his size”.

[Millsy]

We were shite.

Sorry but there was little to be positive about apart from an away draw.

ZERO shots on target all game.
Just ‘safely’ passing it around the back.

Adam did ok , no one was really shit. Blackett did ok.

Given there was talk of 9 points against these easier sides this was just dismal.

My talking points

1- now we see hw much we miss swift possibly
2- I have little faith in Cabral and his punches
3- have the wheels come off Bowen’s honeymoon?

1- Think that was evident before this game.
2 - As I said a few weeks back - A debate about Rafael is coming.
3 - Dunno. I think he is suffering from certain fans being overly positive early on. His game time tactical decisions are troubling and, even worse, now he is getting to the point (not his fault obviously) where injuries can start being blamed. It's going to be hard to evaluate him when he has had to go so many games where he can, justifiably, look at and say "I didnt get to pick the team I wanted because player X was injured".

Still doing ok.

P10, W4, D3, L3. 1.5 ppg, WWDWLLWLDD
Most our recent managers could only dream of that.

Obviously disappointing that the 'easier' run of games hasn't led to a good string of results. But crucially, we didn't lose to either team below us, and we've maintained a 5 pt gap so far. We're keeping the scoreboard ticking over at least.

Bowen hasn't got everything tight, but we shouldn't forget Gomes left as he found us, in terrible form with an unbalanced squad. And losing Swift and Ejaria at the same time was a big blow.

And we have a game in hand still.

Fair.

Not unreasonable to start asking Qs though.

[Millsy]

1-0 PRESTON
2-2 QPR Away
2-1 MILLWALL
3-0 LUTON
0-1 Brentford Away
0-1 LEEDS
3-1 Wigan Away
2-3 BIRMINGHAM
1-1 Barnsley Away
0-0 Stoke Away

P10 W4 D3 L3 14-10 = 15 Points = a 69-Point Season Equivalent

In this ten-game-spell we have played 2nd, 3rd, 4th and Millwall who are flying

Considering how we looked when Bowen came in, that is VERY decent.

Brentford and Leeds were not terrible results. Only the Birmingham game should be considered a poor result

Yes agree with that, and we have taken points from losing positions in three games, something we rarely did under Gomes/Clement.

An away point anywhere at this time of season is okay in my view.

It is only any good if we win our home games and that is far from a gimme.
Derby and QPR games will tell us more about whether we are likely to stay just about safe or get dragged into the relegation battle.
I would be happy with 4 points from those 2 games, very happy if it were 6, but 2 or less would be worrying.

Well yeah. It depends where Reading fans are with their expectations. It is so interesting that you are talking in relegation fight terms. I find this so sad.

We had a team that was a penalty kick away from the PL. We invested £££s and made two manager changes to retain that but were somehow dragged into relegation fights. We spent HUGELY to really get ourselves out of it and back 'where we belong' challenging for promotion. We then made yet another manager change.

This is really really not good enough to talk about safety especially with this squad.

Most would agree the squad we have should be pushing for playoffs even at this stage of the season. Gomes said it, Bowen says it. The owners expect it and so should fans.

Gomes was changed not just because he might take us down, but because he was not likely to take us up. I put it to people that Bowen was chosen not just to keep us safe but to realise the potential of the squad and catapault us up at least into the top half asap.

To still be saying we hope we can "stay just about safe" sounds bizarre to many of us. Now obviously, the more time goes on, the harder it is mathematically to get into the playoffs, the more confidence drains, the less likely a promotion push is and then we're in the same game as previous seasons with "at least we didn't go down." Some of us thought if Bowen is a master stroke he'll stay but if he's not proven himself quickly by Xmas he'll be gone.

I wonder how much more the owners will put up with this for.

[Snowflake Royal]

1-0 PRESTON
2-2 QPR Away
2-1 MILLWALL
3-0 LUTON
0-1 Brentford Away
0-1 LEEDS
3-1 Wigan Away
2-3 BIRMINGHAM
1-1 Barnsley Away
0-0 Stoke Away

P10 W4 D3 L3 14-10 = 15 Points = a 69-Point Season Equivalent

In this ten-game-spell we have played 2nd, 3rd, 4th and Millwall who are flying

Considering how we looked when Bowen came in, that is VERY decent.

Brentford and Leeds were not terrible results. Only the Birmingham game should be considered a poor result

Good old stat crunching.

How about we take away the honeymoon period, which everyone knows is a real phenomenon (or to use a ridiculously thick sounding Americanism is a “thing” *puke*). Where do stats take us without the first 4 games?

I hope your more positive stats are correct and we continue to do well. I like Bowen. Of course we all want him to succeed.

But it is equally valid to call honeymoon on the early games or at the very least concede that something seems to have slipped quite worryingly, with some strange tactical calls in recent weeks, Stamball making a comeback etc etc. Our game plan against Stoke was basically “Pass it around the back to death and then give it to Adam to launch one up the pitch for Baldock to win against a player twice his size”.

Given we've gone through a lot of managers in recent years, and none of them have had anything like the start Bowen did, in fact most started badly, I think the honeymoon new manager bounce is vastly over stated.

[Hound]

Gomes was 100% replaced because he might take us down

Bowen was given the task to stabilising and getting us comfortably safe. Anyone thinking we would challenge for promotion after where Gomes left us (not totally his fault) is not being sensible

Big opportunity next season assuming we stay up of reshaping the squad with lots of high earners leaving

[Snowflake Royal]

Without the first 4, we're LLWLDD

So 5 from 6. About 0.8ppg. Which isn't great, but isn't awful and is certainly an improvement on how Gomes finished.

[Millsy]

Then Bowen himself is not sensible.

[Millsy]

Without the first 4, we're LLWLDD

So 5 from 6. About 0.8ppg. Which isn't great, but isn't awful and is certainly an improvement on how Gomes finished.

So, pretty horrific then if we're honest. 37points over the season, dead cert relegation. My farts are an improvement on how Gomes finished, that's irrelevant.

[Snowflake Royal]

Without the first 4, we're LLWLDD

So 5 from 6. About 0.8ppg. Which isn't great, but isn't awful and is certainly an improvement on how Gomes finished.

So, pretty horrific then if we're honest. 37points over the season, dead cert relegation. My farts are an improvement on how Gomes finished, that's irrelevant.

And you're talking a cherry picked 6 games ignoring the best run.

Win the next game and it all looks quite different again. That's the problem with tiny sample sizes.

[Millsy]

Without the first 4, we're LLWLDD

So 5 from 6. About 0.8ppg. Which isn't great, but isn't awful and is certainly an improvement on how Gomes finished.

So, pretty horrific then if we're honest. 37points over the season, dead cert relegation. My farts are an improvement on how Gomes finished, that's irrelevant.

And you're talking a cherry picked 6 games ignoring the best run.

Win the next game and it all looks quite different again. That's the problem with tiny sample sizes.

Of course, which was my point. I was responding to Snowballisation.

Could argue it either way so best not bother. I basically don't think it's unfair to start asking questions after these last three performances but I still like Bowen and stand by him.

[Elm Park Kid]

Yes agree with that, and we have taken points from losing positions in three games, something we rarely did under Gomes/Clement.

An away point anywhere at this time of season is okay in my view.

It is only any good if we win our home games and that is far from a gimme.
Derby and QPR games will tell us more about whether we are likely to stay just about safe or get dragged into the relegation battle.
I would be happy with 4 points from those 2 games, very happy if it were 6, but 2 or less would be worrying.

Well yeah. It depends where Reading fans are with their expectations. It is so interesting that you are talking in relegation fight terms. I find this so sad.

We had a team that was a penalty kick away from the PL. We invested £££s and made two manager changes to retain that but were somehow dragged into relegation fights. We spent HUGELY to really get ourselves out of it and back 'where we belong' challenging for promotion. We then made yet another manager change.

This is really really not good enough to talk about safety especially with this squad.

Most would agree the squad we have should be pushing for playoffs even at this stage of the season. Gomes said it, Bowen says it. The owners expect it and so should fans.

Gomes was changed not just because he might take us down, but because he was not likely to take us up. I put it to people that Bowen was chosen not just to keep us safe but to realise the potential of the squad and catapault us up at least into the top half asap.

To still be saying we hope we can "stay just about safe" sounds bizarre to many of us. Now obviously, the more time goes on, the harder it is mathematically to get into the playoffs, the more confidence drains, the less likely a promotion push is and then we're in the same game as previous seasons with "at least we didn't go down." Some of us thought if Bowen is a master stroke he'll stay but if he's not proven himself quickly by Xmas he'll be gone.

I wonder how much more the owners will put up with this for.

I don't think anyone refutes the idea that Reading's ambition should be to get into and stay in the Premier League. Realistically, we would probably always be a yo-yo club, but at a minimum we should be challenging for promotion every season we're in the Championship.

But the championship is tough and it takes time to build a team that can consistently win in this league. Have you notice how many times clubs come down from the Prem and then struggle to compete; even when they've got players who are technically the best in the league? Or championship teams who spend a fortune but still need 2-3 seasons before they really challenge?

There is no magic formation or set of tactics that can guarantee you results, even if you have a bunch of good players. What you need to do is work out a system that gets the most of your players and then give your squad the time it needs to get used to it and each other. That can take months of gruelling games and poor results before you start to see things turn around. Staying clear of relegation means that a manager has the freedom to work out that system and stick with it.

[Snowflake Royal]

So, pretty horrific then if we're honest. 37points over the season, dead cert relegation. My farts are an improvement on how Gomes finished, that's irrelevant.

And you're talking a cherry picked 6 games ignoring the best run.

Win the next game and it all looks quite different again. That's the problem with tiny sample sizes.

Of course, which was my point. I was responding to Snowballisation.

Could argue it either way so best not bother. I basically don't think it's unfair to start asking questions after these last three performances but I still like Bowen and stand by him.

Key thing for me that makes it only mildly concerning is that we came from behind to beat Wigan, kept a clean sheet against Stoke and saved a point against Barnsley.

So in fact, we've only actually had one bad result plus small defeats against two high flying teams as well.

No wins in the next two and the pressure begins to mount.

[URZZZZ]

So, pretty horrific then if we're honest. 37points over the season, dead cert relegation. My farts are an improvement on how Gomes finished, that's irrelevant.

And you're talking a cherry picked 6 games ignoring the best run.

Win the next game and it all looks quite different again. That's the problem with tiny sample sizes.

Of course, which was my point. I was responding to Snowballisation.

Could argue it either way so best not bother. I basically don't think it's unfair to start asking questions after these last three performances but I still like Bowen and stand by him.

I still think Bowen can do fine for us but he’s under a bit of pressure to get some points from the next two because the fixture list really isn’t pretty after that

[Notts Royal]

What gives us the divine right to expect to be challenging for promotion every year? We’re around the 8th smallest club in the division - we’re currently positioned roughly where we should be. The club has largely lost its soul and that needs rectifying before we can even start challenging at the top again.

Yes we spent a lot in the summer so should be expecting to be further up the table...but you have to spend wisely which is looks like we haven’t done once again.

You rarely go from relegation battles to chasing promotion. What we really need is gradual building for a few years. Our aim this season should be mid-lower table, following season 10th, then PO, etc.

This team/squad & fanbase are nowhere near ready to challenge yet. Get used to it

[NewCorkSeth]

What gives us the divine right to expect to be challenging for promotion every year? We’re around the 8th smallest club in the division - we’re currently positioned roughly where we should be. The club has largely lost its soul and that needs rectifying before we can even start challenging at the top again.

Yes we spent a lot in the summer so should be expecting to be further up the table...but you have to spend wisely which is looks like we haven’t done once again.

You rarely go from relegation battles to chasing promotion. What we really need is gradual building for a few years. Our aim this season should be mid-lower table, following season 10th, then PO, etc.

This team/squad & fanbase are nowhere near ready to challenge yet. Get used to it

Please rank the championship from biggest to smallest so we can all argue about it.

[Stranded]

Without the first 4, we're LLWLDD

So 5 from 6. About 0.8ppg. Which isn't great, but isn't awful and is certainly an improvement on how Gomes finished.

So, pretty horrific then if we're honest. 37points over the season, dead cert relegation. My farts are an improvement on how Gomes finished, that's irrelevant.

Poor yes but.

Tight losses to title challengers & a Brentford team who were flying.

An away win.

Poor defeat against Brum no excuses.

Point at Barnsley who have scored 9 in the home games sandwiching ours. Good result.

Terrible game but good point at a Stoke side off the back of a 3-0 win 24hrs before we played.

Only unexpected result is the Brum one. Made worse given it's their only win in 9 now.