Please can we have some realism

[strap]

From what I saw on MOTD, the defence was a shambles. Sonko was all at sea, and the number of times we just semed to be barged out of the way in 50:50 situations was laughable. It was like watching an U13 v U16 game at the park!!

Sonko and Murty looked as though they had never played together.

I actually think the African Cup of Nations might do Sonks and RFC a favour. He's been a shadow of his former self for most of the time since coming back from injury. Going away for 6 weeks, playingin games thatr will arguably be less intense than the Prem, wll give him a chgance to rebuld a bt of confidence. It will also give Duberry the opportuity of starting a run in the RFC 1st XI which, (again hopefully), will give hima bit of confidence to stake a claim for a regular spot.

We won't miss Bikey or Fae as they have played little or no part this season anyway.

Well that's the silver lining in my cloud anyway!!

[Royal Rother]

Excellent post Andrew.

Each to our own of course but I really do find it hard to credit that some people would rather we lost 2-0 than 6-4, I really do.

To me football is a game that is not actually very important. It is a highlight in my week when we do well and I love watching it and get very passionate about what happens to the team, but I never lose sight of that fact that it is not actually very important and that ultimately it is there as a diversion, as an entertainment if you will.

Setting aside the result, yesterday's game was up there in the Top 5 most entertaining I have ever seen us play in.

Therefore I am hugely disappointed but ultimately pretty happy actually.

Possibly this is a perspective that comes with age, but passion does not have to come hand in hand with anger when things don't go our way as so often seems to be the case on here. I'm sure it didn't used to be like this. Why search for blame? This unremitting scapegoat mentality is only something that has reared up its extremely ugly head in the last 30 years I reckon. Maybe it's something to do with the money in the game, or the wall-to-wall coverage that invades our consciousness 24 hours a day if we let it, but football is still an entertainment at the end of the day and to me, gutted though I am, it doesn't get much better than yesterday.

I suppose it's like many a decent relationship that ends badly; lots of brilliant highs and a few lows along the way, culminating with a massive low at the end. Some will remember the good times, others will only focus on the bitterness and look to apportion blame for the end result....

[Stranded]

I don't often agree with you RR but I think that post sums my feelings up.

I'm gutted we lost but, I don't think I've had as much fun watching a game down the pub for a long time. Once the game was over, well it doesn't really matter does it.

There are obvious areas that need improvement but if the next 18 games offer as much as yesterday's did (with a few going our way obviously), it's going to be a great few months.

[holsgrove breaks a leg]

Excellent post Andrew.

Each to our own of course but I really do find it hard to credit that some people would rather we lost 2-0 than 6-4, I really do.

To me football is a game that is not actually very important. It is a highlight in my week when we do well and I love watching it and get very passionate about what happens to the team, but I never lose sight of that fact that it is not actually very important and that ultimately it is there as a diversion, as an entertainment if you will.

Setting aside the result, yesterday's game was up there in the Top 5 most entertaining I have ever seen us play in.

Therefore I am hugely disappointed but ultimately pretty happy actually.

Possibly this is a perspective that comes with age, but passion does not have to come hand in hand with anger when things don't go our way as so often seems to be the case on here. I'm sure it didn't used to be like this. Why search for blame? This unremitting scapegoat mentality is only something that has reared up its extremely ugly head in the last 30 years I reckon. Maybe it's something to do with the money in the game, or the wall-to-wall coverage that invades our consciousness 24 hours a day if we let it, but football is still an entertainment at the end of the day and to me, gutted though I am, it doesn't get much better than yesterday.

I suppose it's like many a decent relationship that ends badly; lots of brilliant highs and a few lows along the way, culminating with a massive low at the end. Some will remember the good times, others will only focus on the bitterness and look to apportion blame for the end result....

annoyingly apt!! I agree with the sentiments here, but it still is frustrating to watch especially as we have not shipped this amount of goals since i cant remember when. I personally dont attach a siege mentality to anyone after a bad game but its clear there are players in the side past their sell by date. new blood is needed either from within the academy or attempting the bridge the gap and get quality players in elsewhere though of course its difficult. You can look back at better times with a misty glow but time moves on quickly and unfortunately in the prem if you dont act quick you get found out to a certain extent.

Of course im pleased where Reading have got to and where they have come from but we are part of the Premiership now with all the trappings that go with it whether thats good or bad so the mentality has to change to a degree, otherwise what is the point of striving for the ultimate aim of top flight football?. For what its worth i think Reading will be ok this season, the watershed for us will be in the summertime when Coppell to an extent will be forced to have an overhaul of his side due to age, players reaching the plateau of their performances and players leaving for 'established' premier league clubs (or so the spin says!).

[Royal Rother]

I don't often agree with you RR but I think that post sums my feelings up.

That's odd, because I usually agree with you!!!

[Alan Partridge]

It's always easier to look at any game objectively/find the positives etc in a game such as yesterday if you don't actually go to the game.

Those that went to Portsmouth and Spurs have every right to be extrmely disappointed/ angry/ embarassed by the two absolutely shambolic defensive performances Reading have put in.

You look at the goals and it's just that -embarassing. Basic individual mistakes. Unlucky with the penalty other than that just miskicks, terrible marking, Sonko missing the ball, really really shoddy defending.

It's a huge concern because it looked like we had turned the corner in recent weeks away from this sort of showing. It's no good saying well at least we scored 4 because again we have scored FOUR goals away from home, very few teams do that and still we've got NOTHING from the game. That can't happen. If you score 2 or 3 you at least get a draw, 4 is a win.

We are back to square one again, hopefully we'll follow it with the same result as last time.

[Riseley]

This crazy squad has the potential to emulate the great Mansell team of the 69-70 season. I look forward to a few 6-3, 6-2 and 8-0 wins in the near future and the return of Dennis Butler as a Murty replacement.

[Stranded]

I don't often agree with you RR but I think that post sums my feelings up.

That's odd, because I usually agree with you!!!

Maybe it's the way you say it sometimes!

[Royal Rother]

We are not back to square one AP; we have played well recently (including much of yesterday) and that is a far cry from much of what we were watching during the previous couple of months.

Whether one went to the game or not, objectivity is objectivity.

[Coppelled Streets]

Our home form must continue or else we face a very real threat of relegation this season.

That defence is terrible, it has been all season.

Who, why? No idea. They all have good games and they all have utterly embarrassing games. Sadly, more of the latter.

Worried? Yeah, quite rightly.

When will the board allow us to progress yet further by upping the wage limit, and allow us the funds to add proven quality to the side?

You just can't keep relying on bargains and at the same time allow your best players to leave because they can earn more else where, even if it means a step down in terms of a club lower in the table than ourselves (Hunt to Sunderland being a possibility for example).

It's time to put our money where our mouth is, or face a very real possibility of taking a huge step backwards.

[Alan Partridge]

We are not back to square one AP; we have played well recently (including much of yesterday) and that is a far cry from much of what we were watching during the previous couple of months.

Whether one went to the game or not, objectivity is objectivity.

But it's easier to look that way when you don't spend £60+ on the day, see your team in front 3 times and still lose to a ridiculous scoreline for the 2nd time this season. I'm the same, i didn't go I saw the highlights, looked a cracking game and I'm disappointed but not that downbeat that we lost. Simple reason because i wasn't there.

It also now puts enormous pressure on us again at home, so far the players have responded exceptionally well to it, hopefully they can again.

Defensively we are back to square one, we defended like we were doing a few months ago. Fans favaurite Sonko has come back and been wretched for the most part, we need that same result as last time after this nonsense. A 1-0 home win. Knowing Coppell he will keep the exact same players in to give them the chance to redeem themselves. For me, 1 or 2 are on borrowed patience time and that includes the number 5.

[Royal Rother]

Last season I drew attention to the "fact" that (well, that it seemed to me anyway) because we tackled less than other teams (relying more on harrying, hassling and blocking than diving into challenges) we were getting less injuries and suspensions than other teams, which enabled our relatively thin resources to stand up to the pressures of the season.

Although I thought Sidwell would not be hugely missed, (wrongly as it has turned out) he was probably the best at nicking the ball with beautifully timed challenges, and I think it is probably this that is our missing link.

An imposing presence in midfield helps the defence out massively; none of Harper, Gunnarsson, Cisse, Hunt or Convey has that presence and it may be that is actually where the investment is most crucial rather than the overworked (and over-criticised) defence.

Individual errors are easy to spot, and there were enough of them yesterday for sure, but Spurs seemed able to advance at will into our penalty area, sluicing straight through midfield - the defenc are inevitably back-pedalling at that point and it is much harder to make an effective challenge when on the back foot, rather than the front foot.

Just a thought....

[Stranded]

Our home form must continue or else we face a very real threat of relegation this season.

That defence is terrible, it has been all season.

Who, why? No idea. They all have good games and they all have utterly embarrassing games. Sadly, more of the latter.

Worried? Yeah, quite rightly.

When will the board allow us to progress yet further by upping the wage limit, and allow us the funds to add proven quality to the side?

You just can't keep relying on bargains and at the same time allow your best players to leave because they can earn more else where, even if it means a step down in terms of a club lower in the table than ourselves (Hunt to Sunderland being a possibility for example).

It's time to put our money where our mouth is, or face a very real possibility of taking a huge step backwards.

Well obviously our home form must continue to keep us safe, but at the same time the home form (or indeed away form) of all the sides below us must improve at the same time so it's not as black and white as you say.

Proven quality is just not that easy to either attract or say that they will be as good here. The problem also is that if a player is proven at this level then his club will not let him go in Jan (unless for a silly fee) or he is out of favour at said club (is he still proven then or a has been? - see debate re Stelios.

Any proven players will also likely be older (30+) as they are the most likely to be available, will that necessarily bolster the team or just add another body/wage to the club that some can moan at as they are slipping by they're use by date?

I am confident we will make some moves this Jan, not many mind, two maybe 3 players that will add to what we have and hopefully stabalise areas that need it. This will not necessarily be acheived by offering wages massively in excess of where we are now but may involve a large fee down the line.

[howser]

I was begining to think, with our recent unbeaten run, that a lot of folks had started to forget that we have an abysmal defensive record, with players who are lightweight, slow, lumbering.............we have the talent to, as we do, score in nearly all matches but the defensive drivel being shown by the back 5 is negating all the attacking flair, conceding 7 & 6 is unacceptable, lets get "Reading in the Premiership" out of the fanatsy world, we are there now to stay, hopefully,will we now realise that to stay there then finance has to be provided, over the top transfer fees and salaries yes, but thats the facts of the league we play in. Realism, yes 42 goals conceded is realistic enough, though totally unacceptable.

[Victor Meldrew]

I think most of us agree with Andrew's sentiments but I would take issue with his statement that we "never give up".
It is easy to bomb forward to try to get that extra goal but it is so much harder to get back to defend and stop the opposition scoring again.
Apart from the front two who IMHO are exempt from criticism defensively (Kitson once again our best defender at set-pieces) I do feel that apart from Harper the rest just don't have the same commitment when chasing back .

As said on another topic I am more than happy to see a 6-4 or 7-4 loss than a 2-0 or 3-0 but I still feel that most of this side are less inclined to bust a gut defending than they are when attacking and physically are so often brushed aside.
Does it matter?
Probably not as long as we keep on scoring and in a "freak" season of hefty defeats we have also had "freak" results v Man Utd and Liverpool so a few more freak results could see us safe although I do fear a rocky ride (all the more exciting?)in the weeks ahead.

[Hampshire Royal]

Excellent post Andrew.

Each to our own of course but I really do find it hard to credit that some people would rather we lost 2-0 than 6-4, I really do.

To me football is a game that is not actually very important. It is a highlight in my week when we do well and I love watching it and get very passionate about what happens to the team, but I never lose sight of that fact that it is not actually very important and that ultimately it is there as a diversion, as an entertainment if you will.

Setting aside the result, yesterday's game was up there in the Top 5 most entertaining I have ever seen us play in.

Therefore I am hugely disappointed but ultimately pretty happy actually.

Possibly this is a perspective that comes with age, but passion does not have to come hand in hand with anger when things don't go our way as so often seems to be the case on here. I'm sure it didn't used to be like this. Why search for blame? This unremitting scapegoat mentality is only something that has reared up its extremely ugly head in the last 30 years I reckon. Maybe it's something to do with the money in the game, or the wall-to-wall coverage that invades our consciousness 24 hours a day if we let it, but football is still an entertainment at the end of the day and to me, gutted though I am, it doesn't get much better than yesterday.

I suppose it's like many a decent relationship that ends badly; lots of brilliant highs and a few lows along the way, culminating with a massive low at the end. Some will remember the good times, others will only focus on the bitterness and look to apportion blame for the end result....

As far as this post goes, I would have said it totally differently, I'd have said...................errrmmm no, actually I'd have said more or less exactly what you said. This is what following a football team is all about. When we beat Liverpool and Everton, drew with United and ran Chelsea very close - we were hailed, quite rightly as a very good team. We have a couple of bad results and we are said by some to be barely worthy of Div 2 status. Yesterday's result, although disappointing, came after an excellent performance sullied by some poor individual mistakes and exagerrated by a top notch performance from Berbatov, one of the best strikers in the league. The game's over now, and although I only watched it on TV, I can honestly say that this will be one of the games I will remember this season, not for the mistakes, but for our fluid attacking play. Although we eventualy lost, we could so easily have won.

I've been supporting Reading since 1967 and I've always looked forward to the next game. If we carry on playing like we have been, we will lose a few, but we will also win a few. People talking about relegation after our recent performances (including yesterday) need to take along hard look at themselves and seek whatever counselling is available.

[handbags_harris]

An imposing presence in midfield helps the defence out massively; none of Harper, Gunnarsson, Cisse, Hunt or Convey has that presence and it may be that is actually where the investment is most crucial rather than the overworked (and over-criticised) defence.

Individual errors are easy to spot, and there were enough of them yesterday for sure, but Spurs seemed able to advance at will into our penalty area, sluicing straight through midfield - the defenc are inevitably back-pedalling at that point and it is much harder to make an effective challenge when on the back foot, rather than the front foot.

Agreed. I've also been an advocate of getting that presence into midfield and have bemoaned that lack after many games this season. The midfielders we have are technically quite decent with the ball at their feet, but none are of that snappy ilk that Sidwell is.

To throw another hat into the ring, a few people have been saying the attack did it's job yesterday. I'm not entirely so sure because yesterday Kitson (even though he scored twice) had 3 sitters at 1-1 and 2-1 when we were completely dominant in the 2nd half. One he hit into Doyle (although a corner was given by the referee after the linesman near us couldn't make his mind up AGAIN) one he decided to try a fancy party trick to round Robinson when a simple dink would have done, and the third he failed to control. Now I love the guy to bits like all Reading fans, but he was guilty of some criminal misses which would have probably put the game to bed at that scoreline. And for that I do not feel the attack did it's job properly yesterday and can share their own blame for the defeat.

[Royal Rother]

Agreed re Kitson. He is clearly head and shoulders our best player at the moment, but I couldn't give him our MOTM yesterday (Hunt got my vote again) because of those misses.

Was our defence any worse than Spurs'?

[LUX]

of course Royal Rother is right if you take a step back, but I was very pissed off after yesterday. For me football is (probably too) important and I think far too much and often about the fate of my team (and have done for about 35 years). I too love exciting games, but not when it's us (er, unless we win or get a good point). I must admit yesterday's result hurt a lot, maybe because I was so elated each time we took the lead, only for it to be snuffed out and I could not bring myself to watch MOTD.
The hope and expectancy was fantastic, but when you get nothing in the end, it's a bummer. Coupled with Sunderland's win, that was a very bad day for me.

ps I'm also an RTG and trust them to come back from this. Of course the elation of that day, Tuesday hopefully, will cure all my current ills.

[handbags_harris]

Agreed re Kitson. He is clearly head and shoulders our best player at the moment, but I couldn't give him our MOTM yesterday (Hunt got my vote again) because of those misses.

Was our defence any worse than Spurs'?

No it wasn't. Spurs defence is woeful not helped by their somewhat flappy Yorkshireman in goal. Bizarrely, and despite the attacking play being good, my MOTM yesterday was Hahnemann because I didn't feel he put a foot wrong all game even though he ended up picking the ball out of the net 6 times.