Our place in the league

[brendywendy]

OK folks, time for a reality check. Most people seem to think we should be a Premier League club based on the comments on this site. But why? No doubt this is based entirely on 2 seasons in the Prem with a team punching well above its weight. This has been an exceptional period in the club's history and one unlikely to be repeated in the foreseeable future, certainly under the present management who seem utterly clueless.

So, a little perspective highlighted by a few stats.
1. Ground capacity. Currently our capacity ranks us 37th withonly 2 Prem clubs with marginally smaller grounds.
2. Attendances. Currently we are ranked 35th. 4 clubs in Div 1 have better attendaces! No doubt this would improve if the team were performing better but would still not put us in the top 20.
3. Population. This is the interesting one. Reading(including Wokingham) is the 17th largest town or city in england (the top 16 are all cities incidentally) but the proximity to London draws the glory hunters to Chelsea, Arsenal etc.

So realistically we are nowhere near the top 20 without even taking history into account. Our rightful place looks like lower mid-table in the Championship so forget about thePremier League and concentrate on at least being where we should be. Can these players achieve this? The answer is yes, provided we see a bit of passion and good management, neither of which is there right now.

If thats your ambition in life why dont you go and support Oxford

oh FFS

thats not his ambition in life3 you derbrain
its simply the reality of our football club, who a few years ago were smaller than oxford UTD BTW

[Thaumagurist*]

How could they have been bigger than us? They were still small time, even when they were in the top flight.

[Stevie G]

You know at the start of the season they do that alphabetical thing that means we start in the bottom third, well...

Our name is shorter and earlier in the alphabet than Wolves, so we should be higher in the league than them and thus Premiership before them.

Planning, aspiration, commitment, achievement, all more important than town size, ground size and attendance.

Thats true until you reach the Premiership where all logic then goes out of the window. You may survive for a short while but unless you have, or are prepared to gamble, the big bucks then ultimately you can't compete long term reagrdless of all the other attributes you list.

The Premiership has distorted absolutely everything.

Whooosh!

[brendywendy]

You wonder how all the other clubs get by !

erm

by building a big enough stadium, and maintaining results and entertainment on the pitch so that revenue matches or exceeds outgoings, -see arsenal
by massive unsustainable debts like most of the bottom half- see west ham/pompey etc
or through the finances of some righ benefactor who will someday pull his money, and all the profit out of the club-see arabs/yanks
or through the finances of some rich mentalist, who is happy to pour tens of millions down the drain every year with absolutely no wish to ever receive it back-see that wigan bloke.
you take your pick-there arent any other options

i think JM is the best man to run the club, deserved more than the moroinic booing, and wheres all the money goning he got, and is well within his rights to pull out and leave us in the shit he found us in

[Ferris]

OK folks, time for a reality check. Most people seem to think we should be a Premier League club based on the comments on this site. But why? No doubt this is based entirely on 2 seasons in the Prem with a team punching well above its weight. This has been an exceptional period in the club's history and one unlikely to be repeated in the foreseeable future, certainly under the present management who seem utterly clueless.

So, a little perspective highlighted by a few stats.
1. Ground capacity. Currently our capacity ranks us 37th withonly 2 Prem clubs with marginally smaller grounds.
2. Attendances. Currently we are ranked 35th. 4 clubs in Div 1 have better attendaces! No doubt this would improve if the team were performing better but would still not put us in the top 20.
3. Population. This is the interesting one. Reading(including Wokingham) is the 17th largest town or city in england (the top 16 are all cities incidentally) but the proximity to London draws the glory hunters to Chelsea, Arsenal etc.

So realistically we are nowhere near the top 20 without even taking history into account. Our rightful place looks like lower mid-table in the Championship so forget about thePremier League and concentrate on at least being where we should be. Can these players achieve this? The answer is yes, provided we see a bit of passion and good management, neither of which is there right now.

If thats your ambition in life why dont you go and support Oxford

oh FFS

thats not his ambition in life3 you derbrain
its simply the reality of our football club, who a few years ago were smaller than oxford UTD BTW

Most underated word, ever.

[brendywendy]

How could they have been bigger than us? They were still small time, even when they were in the top flight.

and youre a der brain too

a few years ago-when we had never spent a second in the top flight, theyd had a history of top flight football, and probably won stuff at some point.
people only know who the oxf*rd we are cos we spent two years in the top flight somewhat recently


not that they arent worthless scum, & worse than nobodies of course

[Thaumagurist*]

How could they have been bigger than us? They were still small time, even when they were in the top flight.

and youre a der brain too

a few years ago-when we had never spent a second in the top flight, theyd had a history of top flight football, and probably won stuff at some point.
people only know who the oxf*rd we are cos we spent two years in the top flight somewhat recently


not that they arent worthless scum, & worse than nobodies of course

Um, right. They didn't achieve much, not even anywhere near the 8th place we achieved. Plus the fact that they've had a very short time in the league before returning to their original division. Whereas we've been in the league since the formation of Division 3.

And according to my table of success, Reading are 16 places above Oxford. So there.

[rfctabs]

You know at the start of the season they do that alphabetical thing that means we start in the bottom third, well...

Our name is shorter and earlier in the alphabet than Wolves, so we should be higher in the league than them and thus Premiership before them.

Planning, aspiration, commitment, achievement, all more important than town size, ground size and attendance.

Thats true until you reach the Premiership where all logic then goes out of the window. You may survive for a short while but unless you have, or are prepared to gamble, the big bucks then ultimately you can't compete long term reagrdless of all the other attributes you list.

The Premiership has distorted absolutely everything.

Too right. Leeds played the big bucks game and that's screwed them for years.

How could they have been bigger than us? They were still small time, even when they were in the top flight.

Assuming you mean Wolves, it's all a matter of perspective. To the likes of Jimmy Armfield, Preston abd Blackpool are big clubs, but that was well before my time. To me, they've always been small clubs in the lower leagues. In a few years, kids won't know that Leeds and Southampton were Premiership stalwarts - they'll just be another couple of teams scratching around the First and Second divisions. When I was a lad , Wolves were top flight regulars and pretty successful, as were Leicester, West Brom, Norwich, Forest, Derby, QPR, Stoke etc, etc. Teams like Bradford, Huddersfield, Hereford, Notts County - they were like us. Drifted in the lower leagues then had a quick burst of success. But when their time was up they finished up back where they started. Might make an interesting thesis for someone - how do these clubs gain and then lose success?

Bu**ered if I know. But Stevie G's right - it's about aspiration, ambition and commitment, and I think SJM's just bored now and wants out so he can spend the weekend polishing his cars. If the man at the top's not enthused, that sends a strong message to workers.

[brendywendy]

How could they have been bigger than us? They were still small time, even when they were in the top flight.

and youre a der brain too

a few years ago-when we had never spent a second in the top flight, theyd had a history of top flight football, and probably won stuff at some point.
people only know who the oxf*rd we are cos we spent two years in the top flight somewhat recently


not that they arent worthless scum, & worse than nobodies of course

Um, right. They didn't achieve much, not even anywhere near the 8th place we achieved. Plus the fact that they've had a very short time in the league before returning to their original division. Whereas we've been in the league since the formation of Division 3.

And according to my table of success, Reading are 16 places above Oxford. So there.

before we had our 15 mins of fame i would have imagined ask any football fan who was bigger, theyd say oxford utd
admittedly now its clear to all who the greatest team the world has ever seen is
and of course id still like to stab them all

[Thaumagurist*]

How could they have been bigger than us? They were still small time, even when they were in the top flight.

Assuming you mean Wolves,

Er, no, I was talking about Oxford!

[rfctabs]

How could they have been bigger than us? They were still small time, even when they were in the top flight.

Assuming you mean Wolves,

Er, no, I was talking about Oxford!

Sod it. I'm too old for this. Missed BrendyWendy's post.

Anyway, in my personal history of the world, Oxford doesn't even get a footnote. I'd even forgotton Oxford had a spell in the top flight. I didn't move to Reading until 1985 and had no idea there was such feeling until Maxwell had his Big Idea. Even now, I don't care about Oxford. They're no threat. We don't play them. They're not very good (actually that's something we have in common right now). And in my little world, they're a very small club indeed.

[rhroyal]

Two people have posted serious responses to Stevie G's comment that we should be in the Premiership because alphabetically our name comes before Wolves. I do love this board sometimes.....

[Royal Lady]

You think they're serious? Honestly?

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Planning, aspiration, commitment, achievement, all more important than town size, ground size and attendance.

they aren't.

You can have all the ambition in the world, but without the resources to back it up you'll just be storing up debt.


Let's assume for argument's sake that Madejski isn't sticking millions of pounds in his back pocket, how exactly do you propose we fund this ambitious promotion chasing team? Do you expect Madejski to just fund it out of the kindness of his heart, or do you just suggest we spend several million and just hope it pays off? I don't see an option "c".

[PEARCEY]

How could they have been bigger than us? They were still small time, even when they were in the top flight.

and youre a der brain too

a few years ago-when we had never spent a second in the top flight, theyd had a history of top flight football, and probably won stuff at some point.
people only know who the oxf*rd we are cos we spent two years in the top flight somewhat recently


not that they arent worthless scum, & worse than nobodies of course

Um, right. They didn't achieve much, not even anywhere near the 8th place we achieved. Plus the fact that they've had a very short time in the league before returning to their original division. Whereas we've been in the league since the formation of Division 3.

And according to my table of success, Reading are 16 places above Oxford. So there.

They won the Milk Cup which is superior to any Cup we have ever won.
HTH

[Stevie G]

Two people have posted serious responses to Stevie G's comment that we should be in the Premiership because alphabetically our name comes before Wolves. I do love this board sometimes.....

I know, I can't believe it either, however there must've been some logic in the second half of my scoff at the subject.

[Stevie G]

Planning, aspiration, commitment, achievement, all more important than town size, ground size and attendance.

they aren't.

You can have all the ambition in the world, but without the resources to back it up you'll just be storing up debt.


Let's assume for argument's sake that Madejski isn't sticking millions of pounds in his back pocket, how exactly do you propose we fund this ambitious promotion chasing team? Do you expect Madejski to just fund it out of the kindness of his heart, or do you just suggest we spend several million and just hope it pays off? I don't see an option "c".

I have ambition, realistic ambition, matched to my resources. I don't go around spinning my ambition to be larger than what it is, I realistically put things in place early on, kind of aligned to my game plan, and I don't pay over the odds for under the quality line.

That said, I don't have millions so who am I to teach my grandmother to suck eggs!