Prem League2

[brendywendy]

also its a bit off letting man u make themselves into the biggest club in the world on the basis of the premiere league hype and money
then tell everyone else they cant do that any more.

[SpaceCruiser]

Like I said, long term loans and debts for investment is okay, such as expanding a stadium. It's the constant spending beyond means on playing staff that is the problem.

Yep, but will those in charge of the game see it that way?

[rhroyal]

also its a bit off letting man u make themselves into the biggest club in the world on the basis of the premiere league hype and money
then tell everyone else they cant do that any more.

Why? They've invested wisely over years and years putting themselves in a position to compete with the best whilst living within their means (the debt used for the Glazier buyout is a different issue). Right now Arsenal are going through a long transition period to set themselves up in the same way. Plans from the likes of Liverpool and Chelsea will also help to make it more competitive. You're also forgetting that if measures cool the ridiculous levels of spending on wages, it may free up finance to invest in this sort of infrastructure.

We've managed to grow yet live within our means and have relied upon Mr. Mad more as a brilliant businessman than a sugar daddy. If we can get from Elm Park to where we are now like this, it's certainly not beyond 6 or 7 clubs in the Premiership to grow to a bigger size too and make it competitive.

[rhroyal]

Like I said, long term loans and debts for investment is okay, such as expanding a stadium. It's the constant spending beyond means on playing staff that is the problem.

Yep, but will those in charge of the game see it that way?

If clubs have evidence that they can keep up with their loan repayments; yes.

[Stranded]

New Parachute Payment proposals accepted by the Football League.

[Radders]

I know that footbal has changed and that it is now big business, but what would be the point of promotion? I personally find the little teams going to the big teams and trying to hold out for a 0-0 really dull, but it would happen quite a few times a season. Do you really want to see that?

Thats what you get with the PL under the current set up isnt it?

At present the CCC is just a graveyard. Teams on the backpedle who, once theyve failed to bounce straight back, are just treading water at best each year trying to fend off old Debts. Id say League 1 is not far off the CCC at the moment in terms of the quality.

And why do we have 24 teams divisions still? Its too many at any level.

The play off system is dump as well, i cant believe they havent changed the structure, there are so many better and more exiting ways. 20 teams in each league, with a slightly extended play off system that favours the higher placed teams? Now we just get a marathon season with an end of season spin up.

Perfect time for a change. The current system is just archaic and unsuited to the way football is today.

Exactly my point. Do you think that throwing money at companies (the football clubs) with bad debts will sovle anything? Or will it just mean that said companies will spend even more money, making lesser players even richer, and end up with even more debts? As rhroyal has said, the system needs changing but not in this way. I like football, I don't want to see it ruined by some businessmen trying to get richer who seem to have been convinced that the way to do it is to by player x,y or z.

We seem to have the media pundits all supporting the idea that the modern player, who is now fitter then he has ever been, unable to play as many games. But he needs to be payed more because he will be out of work at 35 or so. So are several thousand people who never had those wages in their twentys. The money needs to be restricted in the game generally, not just a larger percentage given to a few teams.

Agreed about the play offs though. If you are old enough, you will remember that there used to be a playoff to see who would go down. Soon scrapped that though as the wrong club could go down. It should work the same for going up. If you weren't good enough to get into the top three after 46 games, why should you suddenly be able to win a cup final to do it!

[Ian Royal]

oxf*rd PL 2. I want FLD 1, 2, 3 & 4 again.

I would be willing to accept Div 3 N & S.

[Dirk Gently]

I don't like the idea of the parachute payments increasing to £48million over 4 years but i think a Premier League 2 would be good for a club like ours.

And 11 years ago?

Sorry?

One of Gartside's original proposals was no promotion and relegation to/from Tier 2. This was amended later, but there'd only be 1 promotion place to join the elite.

That might be good for us now, but are we forgetting where we came from?

[Mad Dog's Ghost]

RH Royal has this one nailed. More money for relegated prem clubs = 16 est'd prem clubs and 8 yo yo clubs that take it in turns to swap places. Closed shop. We might get an occasional sniff but the likes of Scunny and Barnsley can probably forget it. And I like it when the smaller clubs do well. Come on Blackpool!

Make no mistake, these proposals never come out to benefit football as a whole. It's all about protecting the elite.

[Dirk Gently]

This is what I said about it on 30th April when this was last discussedin this forum :

The crux of it is that the PL have long mooted the idea of a PL2, but the FL have never liked the idea. By increasing the money, they will effectively be introducing a second tier by stealth. Bingo! Same clubs getting promoted/relegated and a level of certainty that the PL desire.

Not quite. The PL don't like the idea of a PL2, as it means that they'd have to share their income between 40 clubs rather than 20, and the lower tier wouldn't increase income enough to give everyone the same share - so it'd mean less money for the top tier clubs. But the Big 4 - who hold most of the power in the PL - are against the idea as it'd hurt them financially and they don't see that they'll ever be relegated.

It's certain clubs in the PL who face the biggest financial impact if relegated - notably Phil Gartside at Bolton - who've long and frequently mooted the idea of a PL2 without ever getting enough support to make it fly. The idea to invite the 2 Scottish clubs to join was an attempt by Gartside to increase the TV revenue to cover this problem with the idea - more TV money meant the same money for PL1 and also increased money for a PL2.

The FL are against the idea but recognise they couldn't stop it if 20 odd clubs resigned.

Interestingly, the FL have just kyboshed the increased parachute payments idea - because, I understand, it also came with strings attached from the PL on how the solidarity payments it already pays would distributed. I think we're on the verge of a major showdown and war of attrition between FL & PL.

[westendgirl]

Sort the wages out, and the finances become manageable automatically.
If that means a "brain drain" of footballing talent plying their trade elsewhere, then so be it. I don't go to watch "stars". I go to watch my football team.

If by a "revamp" the implication is that the drawbridge be pulled up in order to make it even harder for what now are small clubs to grow, again I heartily disagree. We were a small club not so long ago.
If you take the romance of a climb to success away from a club like Wigan away form our national sport, then in my view, you might as well scrap pro football altogether, and just have exhibition games between The Microsoft Manchester Marvels, and Seat Barcelona, Volkswagen Munich, etc.

Quite agree. We may be in the Championship now but most of our existence we were firmly tier 3. If we are willing to say now we are here we should pull up the drawbridge then we are deserting the rest of our fellow football supporters and depriving them of the dream of doing what we have in getting promoted.

You are right in that if anything needs to be sorted it is not dividing leagues up by where they are now but by really sorting out the obscene amount of money that are taken out of the game - mainly by players

[Messiah]

Did I hear or read something in the last few days that said there will be a Championship wage cap at 10k a week?

I'm sure Paul Merson was commenting on how he didn't think there were any, or many on that wage in this league anyway.

Are wage caps coming in for next season, Dirk?

[Dirk Gently]

Did I hear or read something in the last few days that said there will be a Championship wage cap at 10k a week?

I'm sure Paul Merson was commenting on how he didn't think there were any, or many on that wage in this league anyway.

Are wage caps coming in for next season, Dirk?

Not that I've heard of, no. The FL management team would like to introduce some kind of wage cap, but there's such a financial diversity of clubs that they can't find one that would apply properly across the clubs (e.g. Newcastle & Leeds, Peterborough & Scunny). Even if they did come up with a formula, they very much doubt that their member clubs would vote for it.

What they've been concentrating on for the past couple of years is ensuring as much as possible that clubs don't get into debt - for instance the tax disclosure scheme was introduced last July. Under this, FL clubs have to certify that they are up-to-date with all payments to HMRC (including coming to an agreement if there are debts) - and the clubs have agreed to waive confidentiality from HMRC so the FL can check up that they're telling the truth in those declarations.