Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target"

[sandman]

I'd probably add that anyone who believes option b is also a bellend.

So you believe option b then?

[Ian Royal]

I'd probably add that anyone who believes option b is also a bellend.

So you believe option b then?

You can still be a bellend without either of those applying sandman, there's no bellend exclusivity here.

[Royal Rother]

Ahem. Cockend is the new bellend.

[The Quiet Man]

SJM was perceived as having not put enough money into the club meaning we would never really be a prem club, again AZ was presented as an alternative to that situation, now we find he is unable to sort out a striker for a campaign in the championship, so you can understand why people are a little underwhelmed, absolutely nothing has changed, we will do it on the cheap and fail exactly the same way as before.

Under SJM the club had to sell its best players to maintain financial stability.

Under AZ that has not been the case, despite not being able to offload the most expensive player we have, who has proved to be a bit of a flop.

What do you think the situation would have been under SJM if we were unable to offload Pog? I can tell you what. McCarthy, Guthrie, Le Fondre, Pearce and some others would have been sold alongside Mariappa and Kebe.

Do you not see that?

If a prem club thought any of those could make an impact and hold down a first team place they would be in the prem now. If we don't get promoted this season I can see most of those mentioned looking to leave (bar the Pog who still has 3 years ? of his contract to rundown).

As for financial stability nobody bar AZ knows what this means and when the TSI deal makes us a private Gibraltar based company nobody will really be able to assess what financial rules we are operating under.

My concern is that Adkins has a good track record in a large part based on a strikers Sharp (when they sold him they were relegated) and Hooper at Scunthorpe and Lambert at Southampton. The lack of anybody in this category for Reading seriously weakens our chances of doing anything this season.

I can't believe that NH and Adkins did not know the market and what it takes hence the disappointment. Steve Bruce paid £3 million plus for Cameron Jerome the first time Birmingham were relegated to get the goals to take them back up and that was 4 or 5years ago. Unless you have a regular goal threat you are going to struggle to go straight back up and they don't come cheap. If AZ doesn't want to finance that type of expenditure (fair enough its his money) to get us back then it is realistic to assume that we will not be spending an awful lot at the next level up should we be lucky enough to get there.

I'm quite happy to see us as a decent championship side that once every 6 or 7 years might have the chance to take a season long punt at the prem, but is that really the model AZ thinks he has bought, I don't really think so.

[Ian Royal]

SJM was perceived as having not put enough money into the club meaning we would never really be a prem club, again AZ was presented as an alternative to that situation, now we find he is unable to sort out a striker for a campaign in the championship, so you can understand why people are a little underwhelmed, absolutely nothing has changed, we will do it on the cheap and fail exactly the same way as before.

Under SJM the club had to sell its best players to maintain financial stability.

Under AZ that has not been the case, despite not being able to offload the most expensive player we have, who has proved to be a bit of a flop.

What do you think the situation would have been under SJM if we were unable to offload Pog? I can tell you what. McCarthy, Guthrie, Le Fondre, Pearce and some others would have been sold alongside Mariappa and Kebe.

Do you not see that?

If a prem club thought any of those could make an impact and hold down a first team place they would be in the prem now.

You are aware we turned down bids for a number of our players right?

[RoyalBlue]

Under SJM the club had to sell its best players to maintain financial stability.

Under AZ that has not been the case, despite not being able to offload the most expensive player we have, who has proved to be a bit of a flop.

What do you think the situation would have been under SJM if we were unable to offload Pog? I can tell you what. McCarthy, Guthrie, Le Fondre, Pearce and some others would have been sold alongside Mariappa and Kebe.

Do you not see that?

If a prem club thought any of those could make an impact and hold down a first team place they would be in the prem now.

You are aware we turned down bids for a number of our players right?

We're aware that the club told us that they had turned down bids for a number of our players. That's not necessarily the same thing. And if there were bids they might have been Reading style bids i.e below the normal market valuation aka piss takes!

[The Quiet Man]

[quote="Ian RoyalIquote]You are aware we turned down bids for a number of our players right?[/quote]

I'm sure we made and refused bids just like every other club in the Football League. Pretty sure most of the agents for our first team squad had polite feelers out to see if deals could be made or whether they were better off where they were. Kebe and Mariappa clearly did not want to stay under any circumstance and so we got £750K (maybe more with add ons) for Kebe and pretty much what we paid for Mariappa we got back.

[Extended-Phenotype]

The club didn't lie. The club just jazzed itself up a bit.

It doesn't get any more complicated than that.

[melonhead]

but when the final conclusion is incorrect based on flawed reasoning precisely because the two scenarios are not comparable, then it bears mentioning.


the point you made is that it is ok for the fans to berate NH/NA/AZ because if you missed a deadline it would be ok for your boss to berate you
i simply listed a few reasons why i thought it was not a good comparison to make.

your further arguments about comparing different things are a bit odd.
what you are saying is that i can berate a fish because it cannot breath fire, because i compared it to a dragon, cos they both have scales.

I like it. But it doesn't really work in this situation because I'm comparing the scenario of one person giving assurances and another person giving assurances, and that with assurances I believe you should be clear.

If I say to somebody I'll bake them a loaf of bread for tomorrow, it would be fair enough if tomorrow, empty handed, I come back with "wow, I'm afraid that was harder than I thought" - unless I'm a f/cking baker.

The club portrayed a confidence in meeting their target and I think it was misleading.

but i fully believe the confidence portrayed at the start to be fully indicative of their actual confidence at the time of the statement.
their confidence just reduced as it became clear that things werent working out as hoped.


thats the thing about confidence, its elusive, and etherial, and subject to change based on changing circumstances and understanding levels.


doesnt change the fact that anyone who looked at the statements and thought, this means we will 100% be getting 7 players in this window is a bit silly.
and thats including the men who made them.

[melonhead]

How am I crazy to suggest that it's foolish to take what he says LITERALLY

When he makes an unambiguous, categoric statement, it's hard not to take it literally. Some of his statements concerning his desire to sign players have been pretty darned categoric. A lawyer you would not make.

like to see a lawyer get anything out of him based on the statement 'it is not the end of signings'

[melonhead]

The club portrayed a confidence in meeting their target and I think it was misleading.

It really boils down to whether you believe they thought they were going to get players in or not.

You can fully intend to do something, and be confident you will achieve it, and still not achieve it.

If you don't achieve it, you haven't mislead anybody unless you were lying when you said you thought you would succeed.


Now either you believe that

a) Reading thought they'd bring players in, but just couldn't pull off the deals

...or...

b) Reading fc were lying, and didn't believe they'd be bringing players in.

Anyone complaining about being mislead or lied to, who doesn't believe option b, is just being a bell-end.

^^^^this

you should post more.

[floyd__streete]

Anton Zingarevich: "It is not the end in terms of signings. We have six weeks to go and we need to do a little bit more business." - July 19th 2013

Murked, sycophants.

Not the most contemptible quote that AZ has come out with, mind you. That was during the presser to introduce NA as manager when he rather shiftily accused BMc of not doing enough/spending enough in the January window.

[Extended-Phenotype]

but when the final conclusion is incorrect based on flawed reasoning precisely because the two scenarios are not comparable, then it bears mentioning.


the point you made is that it is ok for the fans to berate NH/NA/AZ because if you missed a deadline it would be ok for your boss to berate you
i simply listed a few reasons why i thought it was not a good comparison to make.

your further arguments about comparing different things are a bit odd.
what you are saying is that i can berate a fish because it cannot breath fire, because i compared it to a dragon, cos they both have scales.

I like it. But it doesn't really work in this situation because I'm comparing the scenario of one person giving assurances and another person giving assurances, and that with assurances I believe you should be clear.

If I say to somebody I'll bake them a loaf of bread for tomorrow, it would be fair enough if tomorrow, empty handed, I come back with "wow, I'm afraid that was harder than I thought" - unless I'm a f/cking baker.

The club portrayed a confidence in meeting their target and I think it was misleading.

but i fully believe the confidence portrayed at the start to be fully indicative of their actual confidence at the time of the statement.
their confidence just reduced as it became clear that things werent working out as hoped.


thats the thing about confidence, its elusive, and etherial, and subject to change based on changing circumstances and understanding levels.


doesnt change the fact that anyone who looked at the statements and thought, this means we will 100% be getting 7 players in this window is a bit silly.
and thats including the men who made them.

Oh, you ARE saying they are stupid.

Well I disagree. I think they were well aware of how hard it would be sign 7 decent players - them being in the business and all, I expect they have experienced a transfer window once or twice before.

But cautious realism doesn't sell tickets, attract or keep players. histrionic ambition does though. Not saying they lied; saying they overcooked it.

[floyd__streete]

I think they were well aware of how hard it would be sign 7 decent players - them being in the business and all, I expect they have experienced a transfer window once or twice before.

But cautious realism doesn't sell tickets, attract or keep players. histrionic ambition does though. Not saying they lied; saying they overcooked it.

+1.

[melonhead]

Anton Zingarevich: "It is not the end in terms of signings. We have six weeks to go and we need to do a little bit more business." - July 19th 2013

Murked, sycophants.

Not the most contemptible quote that AZ has come out with, mind you. That was during the presser to introduce NA as manager when he rather shiftily accused BMc of not doing enough/spending enough in the January window.

agreed on the latter.

[melonhead]

I like it. But it doesn't really work in this situation because I'm comparing the scenario of one person giving assurances and another person giving assurances, and that with assurances I believe you should be clear.

If I say to somebody I'll bake them a loaf of bread for tomorrow, it would be fair enough if tomorrow, empty handed, I come back with "wow, I'm afraid that was harder than I thought" - unless I'm a f/cking baker.

The club portrayed a confidence in meeting their target and I think it was misleading.

but i fully believe the confidence portrayed at the start to be fully indicative of their actual confidence at the time of the statement.
their confidence just reduced as it became clear that things werent working out as hoped.


thats the thing about confidence, its elusive, and etherial, and subject to change based on changing circumstances and understanding levels.


doesnt change the fact that anyone who looked at the statements and thought, this means we will 100% be getting 7 players in this window is a bit silly.
and thats including the men who made them.

Oh, you ARE saying they are stupid.

Well I disagree. I think they were well aware of how hard it would be sign 7 decent players - them being in the business and all, I expect they have experienced a transfer window once or twice before.

But cautious realism doesn't sell tickets, attract or keep players. histrionic ambition does though. Not saying they lied; saying they overcooked it.

its just the difference between a statement of intent, and a cast iron guarantee.
they were silly for saying its not the end.which is vaguely categorical. and people were silly for thinking that was a cast iron guarantee.


though im sure that slow season tickets certainly pushed them into making those statements.
that doesnt mean they didnt alsofully believe what they were saying

[Platypuss]

^^^^



Everyone on the net looks like Brendy

[melonhead]

really couldnt care less about how the club are viewed. since JM went, and BM was sacked, i really have no real affinity for the management of this club.
im just telling you what i thought when i heard the statement.


if youd all just adjust your mindsets to the same as mine,youd all be alot happier about things, you really would

[Extended-Phenotype]

We are edging towards agreeing with each other. That’s why I like bustin’ with ya Brendo – there is actually a conclusion.

I too imagine the club believed they could bring in 7 players but were slow in coming forward about the pitfalls, statements always erring towards a guarantee rather than it being a possibility. They have certainly been quite political with the wording.

This in my mind is good business but is also misleading. Because it is misleading I can understand why fans are feeling put out and think the club are ripe for a gripe. However, I don’t agree that this means anybody should be sacked, which is an overreaction.

The club showed confidence in signing 7 players when they knew deep down it would be a hard target to meet. I don’t feel they targeted enough players or were realistic with their valuations. No lessons learned, still giving it the big bollox without matching it with action and another transfer window set with high expectation and low return.

For that they are more than open to rational criticism.

[Ian Royal]

You are aware we turned down bids for a number of our players right?

We're aware that the club told us that they had turned down bids for a number of our players. That's not necessarily the same thing. And if there were bids they might have been Reading style bids i.e below the normal market valuation aka piss takes!

oxf*rd me you're unremittingly tedious. And that's ME saying that.