CONFIMRED - Orlando Sa

[SCIAG]

The issue I see is that Gunter, Obita and McCleary all produced their best form with a partner who understood them really well.

McLeary and Gunter isn't too bad for the Championship, but the Obita and HRK partnership is functional at best.

Well yes, I was talking about McAnuff and to a lesser extent Taylor as the partners who brought out the best in Obita.

Is our bench really looking that shabby?

Assuming first team is Bond; Gunter, Hector, McShane, Obita; McCleary, Norwood, Williams, Quinn, HRK; Pogrebnyak
That gives a bench made up of seven from Moore/Al Habsi, Cooper, S. Kelly, Kuhl, Tshibola, Tanner, Fosu, Stacey, Samuel, Cox, and Sa

We could use another full back and maybe another centre back (looks pretty likely that Ferdinand will be available though and I think he'll start ahead of McShane if he's fit at the start of the season), and an exciting left winger would go a long way. Other than that, we have an excellent substitute in every position, plus some variety amongst the forwards. Would be very happy with any of those filling in for a stretch.

[Royalwaster]

You don't seriously think the Pog is ahead of Sa?

[Wycombe Royal]

And i don't want Norwood anywhere near the starting line up. Sa AND Pog up front for me.

[Nameless]

When did Kelly sign ?

[Sutekh]

When did Kelly sign ?

He hasn't. Still considering offers apparently.

[Nameless]

So putting him on the bench would lead to a points deduction then.....

[Hoop Blah]

I make it that we currently have 17 senior first team outfield players (including the likes of Cooper and Taylor in that number) plus Kelly if he signs.

That's 7 defenders (inc Kelly), 5 central midfielders, 3 wingers and 3 centre forwards.

In addition we have a bunch of youngsters with varying levels of experience. The likes of Kuhl, Stacey and Samuel look like they're ready to be included and compete with the established squad members and to provide cover but I'm really not convinced we have enough defensive cover yet.

It's still early in the window so I'm not concerned in the slightest but the squad is still light in numbers and some positions so plenty for Clarke & Co to do.

[SCIAG]

You don't seriously think the Pog is ahead of Sa?

I have little idea. I think most Fulham fans would choose Pog, but for the purposes of that post it's much of a muchness.

The likes of Kuhl, Stacey and Samuel look like they're ready to be included and compete with the established squad members and to provide cover but I'm really not convinced we have enough defensive cover yet.

I'd go along with that. Is 7 defenders really that bad though? We'd have had no trouble getting through last season with that many. Definitely wouldn't mind another left back, but I don't think it's essential. If we don't re-sign Kelly, then it becomes essential.

[Hoop Blah]

Depends on the 7 obviously. As it stands it includes Ferdinand and Kelly, so as you say, it's essential we sign someone if Kelly moves on.

We did get by last season with a similar number yes, but I wouldn't want to use last season as a benchmark for anything really! I think we ended up with Gunter, Kelly, Pearce, Hector, Cooper, Ferdinand*, Obita, Knight/Cummings with a few games filling in from Chalobah and Ake. So 6 plus a few others helping out here and there.

[Nameless]

Surely nows the time for Keown, Sweeney, Long etc to play the roles that Cummings, Knight, maybe even Kelly played last season.
I've said it before but these are at the point where we should be seeing which ones have what it takes. We've invested a lot in the Academy, the players have been well coached and at 19 and 20 should be able to do more than sit on the bench and play in the League Cup.
Of course there are risks, but if we never take those risks we'll never know if they can make the jump.
I'm not saying they should start, but when do we consider them proper squad members rather than 'kids' that can't be relied on to do a job for us if required ?

[Maneki Neko]

when the manager and coachs say theyre ready for that

[Nameless]

when the manager and coachs say theyre ready for that

Of course !
But in terms of HNA banter I'd advocate pushing our own players into those backup roles rather than bringing in second rate players from elsewhere to pad out the squad.
I'm under no illusion that Clarke will do what he thinks best irrespective of my uneducated opinion!!

[Maneki Neko]

when the manager and coachs say theyre ready for that

Of course !
But in terms of HNA banter I'd advocate pushing our own players into those backup roles rather than bringing in second rate players from elsewhere to pad out the squad.
I'm under no illusion that Clarke will do what he thinks best irrespective of my uneducated opinion!!

Ok. But if he wont listen to you, who the heck will he listen to? lol

I cautiously agree with you, but I have no idea how good they are right now.If you are tarhgetting promotion, you cant afford to take a lot of risks on kids.Though I'd be less worried about doing it at full back than elsewhere

[Woodcote Royal]

Surely one of the main reasons for using a 5 at the back formation is so that you're less reliant on wingers - as the wing backs cover both roles. In which case, we'd be playing 2 up front with a midfield 3 - unless any wingers played very high up the pitch, essentially as support strikers.

I also don't think Gunter would suit it either - he's not a good attacking full back despite his reputation as one. When he gets further up the pitch he virtually never takes his man on, he simply stops, turns around and passes it backwards or to a deeper midfielder.

Gunter is another member of the Welsh squad who, all too often, seems over rated in a Reading shirt

He's very good at running down the wing but generally unimpressive in both attack or defence.

It's for this reason that I see Kelly as our best out and out full back.

Assuming he's only been offered a one year extension and, therefore, quite reasonably looking for a better offer, I hope the club think again and take a punt, by offering 2 years to someone who is consistently under rated by too many and is still a very good back up if not a regular starter.

[Nameless]

when the manager and coachs say theyre ready for that

Of course !
But in terms of HNA banter I'd advocate pushing our own players into those backup roles rather than bringing in second rate players from elsewhere to pad out the squad.
I'm under no illusion that Clarke will do what he thinks best irrespective of my uneducated opinion!!

Ok. But if he wont listen to you, who the heck will he listen to? lol

I cautiously agree with you, but I have no idea how good they are right now.If you are tarhgetting promotion, you cant afford to take a lot of risks on kids.Though I'd be less worried about doing it at full back than elsewhere

It's been a consistent issue with Reading managers who just ignore me. Not sure why.
Some of us have watched the Academy and u21 sides a fair bit so know most of the players. Of course not every good player makes the transition to the first team but there is only one way to know who can make the jump. I think it' slowish risk but it's not my career on the line.....

[Ian Royal]

Surely nows the time for Keown, Sweeney, Long etc to play the roles that Cummings, Knight, maybe even Kelly played last season.
I've said it before but these are at the point where we should be seeing which ones have what it takes. We've invested a lot in the Academy, the players have been well coached and at 19 and 20 should be able to do more than sit on the bench and play in the League Cup.
Of course there are risks, but if we never take those risks we'll never know if they can make the jump.
I'm not saying they should start, but when do we consider them proper squad members rather than 'kids' that can't be relied on to do a job for us if required ?

Amen sister.

[Woodcote Royal]

+2

If you want young players to come through the ranks and establish themselves in the first team, space has to be left for them to get their chance.

There's no risk free way of achieving that end but, given the young talent currently at our disposal, to fail in this respect would be tragic and could cost us very dearly.

I'd hang on to Kelly personally but there are quite a few I would be prepared to wave goodbye in our long term interests.

[Hoop Blah]

Surely nows the time for Keown, Sweeney, Long etc to play the roles that Cummings, Knight, maybe even Kelly played last season.
I've said it before but these are at the point where we should be seeing which ones have what it takes. We've invested a lot in the Academy, the players have been well coached and at 19 and 20 should be able to do more than sit on the bench and play in the League Cup.
Of course there are risks, but if we never take those risks we'll never know if they can make the jump.
I'm not saying they should start, but when do we consider them proper squad members rather than 'kids' that can't be relied on to do a job for us if required ?

I don't disagree, if they're good enough then by all means throw them in.

I'm not sure all of them are that good though and it might represent too much of a gamble. If they were all that good I think they might've got more of a sniff of the first team previously and it would be unusual for an age group, however well coached, to throw up 6, 7 or 8 players all good enough to make it at this level at that age.

Lets hope they get a chance and prove my cautiousness to be wide of the mark.

[Nameless]

Bear in mind they aren't one age group.
The youngsters around the squad cover 3 groups I think (Samuel is 3 years ahead of Novacovic) , but you are right it's unlikely we'll get a dozen of this group making 100 appearances for the club. But it's happened at other clubs and we need to give as many of them a chance as possible.

[SCIAG]

Bear in mind they aren't one age group.
The youngsters around the squad cover 3 groups I think (Samuel is 3 years ahead of Novacovic)

It's four age groups.

Samuel (and Obita)
Tshibola, Keown, Griffin, Long (and Tanner, Cooper, Moore)
Kuhl, Kelly, Fosu, Owusu, etc.
Novakovich

I agree with your view. I don't think, for example, Sean Long or Shane Griffin will play 100 or even 30 times for us, but that doesn't mean they can't be our back up full backs. Have we ever had four great full backs when we weren't in the top flight? Barring perhaps the period between our last relegation and Cummings leaving, I wouldn't have said so. We may as well use the players already at the club who know their team mates and how we play rather than forking out an extra wage for a Dean Gordon/John Halls/Dan Harding type. Five quiet appearances from Griffin will do nicely.

(As for it being unusual for a youth team to produce six or seven Championship quality players at once - Hamer, McCarthy, Pearce, Karacan, Sigurdsson, Henry, HRK, Church. We've done it before, we can do it again)