BF I follow Barnsley

[paultheroyal]

One thing I’m impressed by is how much better we are on set pieces. We seem a lot more intelligent with our movement with Moore in particular and it’s paid the dividends. Last year they barely beat the first man. Problem is if we play a team good at set pieces we might struggle to score goals... As soon as Meite came on we looked much more dangerous in attack and gave us the much needed width showing how badly we need proper wingers. Aluko did very well coming on too. Hopefully we will see more of this Aluko and not the Aluko that we saw on Tuesday.

Totally agree - seems to be a plan about them and also better delivery - very evident and great to see.

[Snowball]

so nothing specific. Ian just being Ian?

Would we say,

"Just Hitler being Hitler"

or

"No worries, that's just Jimmy Saville, what a lad!"

[Hendo]

so nothing specific. Ian just being Ian?

Would we say,

"Just Hitler being Hitler"

or

"No worries, that's just Jimmy Saville, what a lad!"

Yeah of course, there is no grey area with something like this....

[Snowball]

BTW, I'm a fan of Meite, so not knocking him here

I'm aware the game changed shortly after he came on
and aware he had a good header saved before finally getting the 1-0
goal, but was the change due to Meite coming on, or due to growing
pressure that was happening anyway against a tiring Barnsley side with
just 10 then 9 men?

I mean Joao also could've scored at almost the same time...

[Hendo]

BTW, I'm a fan of Meite, so not knocking him here

I'm aware the game changed shortly after he came on
and aware he had a good header saved before finally getting the 1-0
goal, but was the change due to Meite coming on, or due to growing
pressure that was happening anyway against a tiring Barnsley side with
just 10 then 9 men?

I mean Joao also could've scored at almost the same time...

Meite does seem to have a knack of being in the right place at the right time, which is what all forwards should have.

But you're right, there is always going to be a bit of added pressure from us when they went down to 10 and 9 men, especially as they were bound to tire having pressed us so much.

So probably a bit of both, Joao might've got the goals but the added freshness of Meite might've just given him the edge, seeing as he had only just come on.

[Brain Traysers]

Surprised by the Swift scores - he certainly wasn't at his best but he had a big impact on key moments:
- wrongly called offside denying a 1:1
- broke ahead of a Joao again and just gets beaten to the ball by a GK
- Joao pulled back and defender sent off after another excellent long ball from... Swift
- Olise volley... from a cleared Swift corner (not that you can draw much from this)

CAM seems to be a problem here, evident in the eye test, and supported by the data. These pass maps shows the lack of 'heat' in the heatmap in that central section in the attacking half, and Swifts passing map shows only 1/7 passes into box complete (at least 3 are easily identified as set pieces), and many of his successful forward passes coming from deeper including the 2 passes I flagged above. This may be tactical, so one to compare when someone other than Swift plays central.

Finally, I'm not convinced moving Olise (vital left foot on the right giving space for RB to overlap, and tends to drop deeper rather than run in behind anyway...) or Ejaria (I'm worried he gets boxed out centrally compared with starting 1:1 out wide and cutting in) is a solution. Plus, moving Swift deeper means dropping Rinomhota or Laurent and losing some 'energy' out of a defensive unit that has conceded 0 goals.

As I said elsewhere - if our biggest issue is talking about whether we are getting the best out of Swift in 2-0 wins, I'd rather have the wins than peak Swift in last season's losses.

[alfie9]

Surprised by the Swift scores - he certainly wasn't at his best but he had a big impact on key moments:
- wrongly called offside denying a 1:1
- broke ahead of a Joao again and just gets beaten to the ball by a GK
- Joao pulled back and defender sent off after another excellent long ball from... Swift
- Olise volley... from a cleared Swift corner (not that you can draw much from this)

He also created our best cross of the game which forced the corner that Meite scored.

[skipper]

Surprised by the Swift scores - he certainly wasn't at his best but he had a big impact on key moments:
- wrongly called offside denying a 1:1
- broke ahead of a Joao again and just gets beaten to the ball by a GK
- Joao pulled back and defender sent off after another excellent long ball from... Swift
- Olise volley... from a cleared Swift corner (not that you can draw much from this)

He also created our best cross of the game which forced the corner that Meite scored.

Basically he didn't "pull a worldy" so instead he was naff.

In reality you can only play what's in front of you, and they managed to keep him quiet, arguably because of their high press gameplan. Despite this, he still did all of the above.

He's a good player, and we need to stop being so harsh on our team.

[Stranded]

Surprised by the Swift scores - he certainly wasn't at his best but he had a big impact on key moments:
- wrongly called offside denying a 1:1
- broke ahead of a Joao again and just gets beaten to the ball by a GK
- Joao pulled back and defender sent off after another excellent long ball from... Swift
- Olise volley... from a cleared Swift corner (not that you can draw much from this)

He also created our best cross of the game which forced the corner that Meite scored.

Basically he didn't "pull a worldy" so instead he was naff.

In reality you can only play what's in front of you, and they managed to keep him quiet, arguably because of their high press gameplan. Despite this, he still did all of the above.

He's a good player, and we need to stop being so harsh on our team.

Problem is, it is often easier to remember the sloppy control than than a decent run/pass than may come to nothing.

[Snowflake Royal]

And there was a lot of sloppy control.

Swift had the lowest pass accuracy of any of our starters.

The most unsuccessful touches

The joint second most dispossessed

Just to insert an element of objectivity. His performances have been distinctly lacklustre since the restart having been one of our best players prior to lockdown

[URZZZZ]

And there was a lot of sloppy control.

Swift had the lowest pass accuracy of any of our starters.

The most unsuccessful touches

The joint second most dispossessed

Just to insert an element of objectivity. His performances have been distinctly lacklustre since January having been one of our best players prior to then

Corrected for you

[Hound]

thats harsh. 2 games isnt it? And he wasn't bad against Derby either, just not as good as the others.

[URZZZZ]

thats harsh. 2 games isnt it? And he wasn't bad against Derby either, just not as good as the others.

I guess he was talking about the last 8 games of last season too

Considering his stats for the first half of last season, personally think he’s been quite disappointing since January (since Fulham away) with few goals/assists registered

[Lower West]

Swift didn't look on the ball in the Spurs friendly either. For a player that loves playing. There's a spark missing.

[Brain Traysers]

And there was a lot of sloppy control.

Swift had the lowest pass accuracy of any of our starters.

The most unsuccessful touches

The joint second most dispossessed

Just to insert an element of objectivity. His performances have been distinctly lacklustre since the restart having been one of our best players prior to lockdown

Out of interest, if you had to predict which player/position/role would come out 'worst' for all of those stats who would you pick?

I would probably go for the guy who is tasked with being a creative playmaker in an advanced, central position. There is more space out wide for Olise/Ovie and Joao is often playing with his back to goal making more simple backwards passes. (Only 1 of Joao's 9 completed passes were fwd, 2/3 of his incomplete passes were). 7 attempted passes into the box is huge, Olise 2nd with 5 (they shared corners) and the next highest is 5 players on 1 attempted. Finally across both games he has got ahead of the defenders and had one of our better chances in open play (forced a good save v Derby, offside v Barnsley), despite this not being his skillset - I can't recall a 1:1 last season.

Seems like the bar being set for him in his new role is impossibly high, so should be adjusted down IMO

[Hound]

thats harsh. 2 games isnt it? And he wasn't bad against Derby either, just not as good as the others.

I guess he was talking about the last 8 games of last season too

Considering his stats for the first half of last season, personally think he’s been quite disappointing since January (since Fulham away) with few goals/assists registered

tbf no one exactly sparkled after lockdown. Meite as close to the exception but still not doing a lot outside of the luton game

[Snowflake Royal]

And there was a lot of sloppy control.

Swift had the lowest pass accuracy of any of our starters.

The most unsuccessful touches

The joint second most dispossessed

Just to insert an element of objectivity. His performances have been distinctly lacklustre since the restart having been one of our best players prior to lockdown

Out of interest, if you had to predict which player/position/role would come out 'worst' for all of those stats who would you pick?

I would probably go for the guy who is tasked with being a creative playmaker in an advanced, central position. There is more space out wide for Olise/Ovie and Joao is often playing with his back to goal making more simple backwards passes. (Only 1 of Joao's 9 completed passes were fwd, 2/3 of his incomplete passes were). 7 attempted passes into the box is huge, Olise 2nd with 5 (they shared corners) and the next highest is 5 players on 1 attempted. Finally across both games he has got ahead of the defenders and had one of our better chances in open play (forced a good save v Derby, offside v Barnsley), despite this not being his skillset - I can't recall a 1:1 last season.

Seems like the bar being set for him in his new role is impossibly high, so should be adjusted down IMO

Goalkeeper is almost always worst for Pass Accuracy. Otherwise outfield player striker usually iirc. Maybe CB or Fullback if you play longer. Basically people playing longer low percentage balls a lot or people making low overall pass counts.

Unsuccessful touches and dispossessed is usually strikers or wingers

60% pass accuracy is a shambles for a play maker. Should be about 80% ideally, certainly 75%

Swift just isn't quick enough to play in behind the striker IMO. And is not playing well.

[URZZZZ]

thats harsh. 2 games isnt it? And he wasn't bad against Derby either, just not as good as the others.

I guess he was talking about the last 8 games of last season too

Considering his stats for the first half of last season, personally think he’s been quite disappointing since January (since Fulham away) with few goals/assists registered

tbf no one exactly sparkled after lockdown. Meite as close to the exception but still not doing a lot outside of the luton game

I get that but I’d still argue Swift has had the greatest drop down in form in the squad

[Brain Traysers]

Out of interest, if you had to predict which player/position/role would come out 'worst' for all of those stats who would you pick?

I would probably go for the guy who is tasked with being a creative playmaker in an advanced, central position. There is more space out wide for Olise/Ovie and Joao is often playing with his back to goal making more simple backwards passes. (Only 1 of Joao's 9 completed passes were fwd, 2/3 of his incomplete passes were). 7 attempted passes into the box is huge, Olise 2nd with 5 (they shared corners) and the next highest is 5 players on 1 attempted. Finally across both games he has got ahead of the defenders and had one of our better chances in open play (forced a good save v Derby, offside v Barnsley), despite this not being his skillset - I can't recall a 1:1 last season.

Seems like the bar being set for him in his new role is impossibly high, so should be adjusted down IMO

Goalkeeper is almost always worst for Pass Accuracy. Otherwise outfield player striker usually iirc. Maybe CB or Fullback if you play longer. Basically people playing longer low percentage balls a lot or people making low overall pass counts.

Unsuccessful touches and dispossessed is usually strikers or wingers

60% pass accuracy is a shambles for a play maker. Should be about 80% ideally, certainly 75%

Swift just isn't quick enough to play in behind the striker IMO. And is not playing well.

Always interesting to hear differing viewpoints.

Personally I think we should expect a lower pass completion rate for Swift, as a (significantly) higher share of passes will be higher risk. Add in set pieces, especially against a team that won pretty much every header (Joao won 1/6 aerial duels) and a lot of the low % completion is explained (and a perfect example of where '% completion' in isolation is pretty useless). Our wingers aren't really in traditional 'get to the byline and cross' either, this comes through in the data with plenty of 'easy' sideways/backwards recycling of the ball.

I note City played a similar shape yesterday - KdB completed 79.5% passes, lower than the 'wingers' (Sterling 82%, Foden 94%). Only Jesus completed a lower share (77%), and he is looking to run in behind rather than hold up play like Joao. But of course KdB created 7 chances so we can forget about the 20% passes that they didn't complete, and after all he is probably the best in the world at the role we wish Swift could do.

I accept the points re: GK completion rate, but not sure that applies to the question about which player in our system. When playing out of the back, we should see high completion rates from GK. (FYI Ederson completed 82%)

Completely agree re: lacking pace - but despite that, as I said, he's nailed the run behind once each game and could easily be on 2 goals from that alone, so its not like he is doing terribly at that specific element of the new role.

[Snowflake Royal]

I think it's a misconception than a higher percentage will be higher risk. I think the volume of passes you expect there means whilst the absolute number of high risk passes is high compared to others, it's actually a low percentage of his passes.

You want your playmaker involved as much as possible.

I'd argue the fact he hasn't got a decent shot off for any of his runs in behind shows that whilst he can see the chances, he can't actually do enough with them.

Valuable player, but doesn't quite fit in how we play, and certainly not good enough to carry him given our other options whilst he's not playing very well.

I don't think I'd be looking to Citeh for stats comparisons to us.