How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

[maffff]

I can't help but think Gunter's mediocrity is holding Obita back too.

I think that it's more to do with who plays infront of him. Jobi was a great mentor and support in that way, he gave Obita cover which allowed him to have freedom to be more attacking. Since then we've had HRK and John who don't provide that part of the game at all, it was a little better when Quinn was on the left but their understanding doesn't seem to be as strong as it was with Jobi. A little similar to how Gunter and McCleary are different players when together on the right and on form - their understanding is (was?) second to none within this team of where they would be, where they'd want the ball and the amount of support they would provide each other.

It's great having a team of talented individuals, but fundamentally you need those little linkages across the pitch to turn a squad into a team.

[Maneki Neko]

It is the retention of Gunter regardless of whether he now has a reduced wage or if he plays like a star at the Euros that makes me question Brian's judgement and his own standing at the club.

this is just so much bollox.
we have no right back other than gunter. we need to buy a back up on top of the one we have. if he goes we need to get two.
we know he is a solid if unspectacular right back at championship level, he was willing to take a cut in wages, we have oxf*rd all money, but still need to rebuild our squad in the summer, we need a decent striker, a winger, a decent CB, .....all of these are more important than anything to do with gunter, we are likely to have a very inexperienced and young squad next season, so keeping experienced players is important.
so its a complete no brainer, just like you lot.

[Hoop Blah]

Not having anything both ways. Just saying you're argument is entirely hypothetical meaning you can hardly call Brendy ''wrong'' in his opposite supposition. 

Career records don't make it any less of a guess. Career record would suggest Blackman wouldn't have scored 10 goals at the start of the season. But he did. 

So it's all rather silly stating anyone is right or wrong, when the core of your argument is a comparison between two circumstances you've imagined.‎

Brendy said they were recognised goalscorers. How else do you recognise an ability to score goals other than their previous record?

That's the bit I'm saying he's wrong with, because our remaining forwards had similar or better track records.

[Maneki Neko]

oxf*rd autists arguing over the definition of words.

I already said its just as much to do with physical numbers, and the effect on the squad, of taking your two highest scoring players and selling them midway through the season.

after only half a season Blackman and Sa are still pretty much our top scoring strikers. so I think its ok to describe them as our best.

[Elm Park Kid]

Obita - He's a midfielder, not a defender; and he's not good enough to play in midfield.

Gunter - Solid if uninspiring player. Probably at the back of the list of those that need to be shown the door.

Kermorgant - Simply not good enough and will be disappointed if he's starting next season.

Rakels - IMO the juries still out. Not expecting much from him but am willing to give him the chance.

[Ian Royal]

I can't help but think Gunter's mediocrity is holding Obita back too. I can't help but fell a genuinely good fullback - a Harte, Murty or Griffin - would have mentored more of the defensive flaws out of his game. Gunter's not a mold to use for a young fullback.

Fitness over ability
Timidity over assertiveness
Caution over determination
Niceness over winning

I have to say, I do agree with those 4 statements above.

But, Gunter is still decent. And who is better than Gunter that we can realistically bring in right now? Cyrus Christie at Derby looks a fantastic right back. But, we don't buy players from Derby. They buy from us.

He is certainly fit and he does have a decent amount of ability. But issues such as assertiveness, determination and a little bit of aggression, could possibly be coached in to him. He can become a tougher, nastier Gunter. He has to find it from within himself though. There is no reason why he can't progress and improve. Shorey did and so did Murty.

Most the right backs I've seen this season have been at least his equal.

And we could always take on someone who can grow into the role. I'm not a scout, I'm not going to suggest who would be the bet signing. But it's long been an area of weakness and is symptomatic of our malaise.

We should be trying to do better than Gunter, not just settling for the safe option, like he does every game.

[Maneki Neko]

its daft to randomly say our lack of success over that period is his fault.
its also daft to say hes the equal of mosts/many championship RBs, while calling for him to be sold so we could get another would who could grow to that level.
its daft even if we had unlimited budget and didn't have way more important areas to strengthen.
youre daft

[Top Flight]

its daft to randomly say our lack of success over that period is his fault.
its also daft to say hes the equal of mosts/many championship RBs, while calling for him to be sold so we could get another would who could grow to that level.
its daft even if we had unlimited budget and didn't have way more important areas to strengthen.
youre daft

+1

[Victor Meldrew]

its daft to randomly say our lack of success over that period is his fault.
its also daft to say hes the equal of mosts/many championship RBs, while calling for him to be sold so we could get another would who could grow to that level.
its daft even if we had unlimited budget and didn't have way more important areas to strengthen.
youre daft

When you have stopped being abusive to people perhaps you will think a bit more before posting and think things through-you are becoming the 2016 version of spacey.
Gunter is a big part of our lack of success having contributed to our relegation from the Premier and now helping to drag us down to the lower reaches of the Championship and the club (foolishly IMHO) have given him a new 3 year contract just as the club (foolishly IMHO) gave Kanu a 3 year contract.

Obviously our lack of success is not just down to those two but I saw it as an opportunity to move both of them on-Brian and the club saw it differently in only not offering enough to Kanu but offering enough to satisfy our weak full-back.

When (and if) he plays an integral part in achieving promotion under Brian please feel free to come back on here with your Brian buddy Top Flight and gloat-I will happily read your gloating as it means we are back at the top level.
Regrettably I don't think you will be gloating.

[Ian Royal]

its daft to randomly say our lack of success over that period is his fault.
its also daft to say hes the equal of mosts/many championship RBs, while calling for him to be sold so we could get another would who could grow to that level.
its daft even if we had unlimited budget and didn't have way more important areas to strengthen.
youre daft

I didn't say our lack of success was his fault. I said he was symptomatic of our lack of success. You are aware a symptom is not a cause right? I do think he has contributed, you'd have to be a dribbling lunatic to think he's our sole problem.

I also didn't say he is the equal to most/many championship RBs, I said most of the ones I'd seen were at least his equal, inferring many were superior.

I'm hoping he does well in the Euros and gets sold for good money. I'd rather we didn't extend his contract either of the last two times and got in a genuinely committed right back with a bit of iron about him. At the time we signed him, Clyne went to Saints and Trippier could have been prised from Burnley potentially. Instead we got Gunter, talk about massively inferior.

[Armadillo Roadkill]

This thread is turing into something out of the Twilight Zone. Instead of how impressed or otherwise people are about Brian's performance so far it's tuned into a competition to see who can slag off Chris Gunter the most.

[RoyallyFcuked]

Earlier within one of the thousands of "I love Brian" posts from Top Flight he referred to Gunter as a decent Championship full-back.
IIRC we paid something like £2,000,000 to sign a Premier League full-back and most of us seem to feel that we, Spurs and Forest all thought this player was better than he really is.
Time to cut our losses?

Similar actually to a lot of the signings made by McD (with the help of that Russian w@nkstain) after promotion, Pogrebnyak being the epitome of a player who was believed to be far better than he actually was.

But I remember I used to work with a Forest fan at the time and we spoke about the fact we'd signed two of their players (Gunter and McCleary) and the general feeling I got from him was that both were decent enough at Champ level but inconsistent, the type of players they could replace without too much trouble. Also had a friend that was a Watford fan, obviously we signed Mariappa at the time too, and his opinion on him was "he's ok, fast black man so that's good."

Reminds me of some of the players we've sold over the last 10 years or so for upwards of £1m, often we're thinking we've got a great price there, because we know from watching them every week that their really not that good, but for a club thats looking to buy they appear better than they actually are.

[Hoop Blah]

:roll: oxf*rd autists arguing over the definition of words.

I already said its just as much to do with physical numbers, and the effect on the squad, of taking your two highest scoring players and selling them midway through the season.

after only half a season Blackman and Sa are still pretty much our top scoring strikers. so I think its ok to describe them as our best.

It might've helped if you'd read what I was saying in response to your posts then, then you might've realised what I was saying so I didn't have to keep repeating it and hammering home the difference....

its daft to randomly say our lack of success over that period is his fault.
its also daft to say hes the equal of mosts/many championship RBs, while calling for him to be sold so we could get another would who could grow to that level.
its daft even if we had unlimited budget and didn't have way more important areas to strengthen.
youre daft

Did you lose all ability to read yesterday brendy? That's clearly not what IR was saying.

[Maneki Neko]

its daft to randomly say our lack of success over that period is his fault.
its also daft to say hes the equal of mosts/many championship RBs, while calling for him to be sold so we could get another would who could grow to that level.
its daft even if we had unlimited budget and didn't have way more important areas to strengthen.
youre daft

When you have stopped being abusive to people perhaps you will think a bit more before posting and think things through-you are becoming the 2016 version of spacey.
Gunter is a big part of our lack of success having contributed to our relegation from the Premier and now helping to drag us down to the lower reaches of the Championship and the club (foolishly IMHO) have given him a new 3 year contract just as the club (foolishly IMHO) gave Kanu a 3 year contract.

Obviously our lack of success is not just down to those two but I saw it as an opportunity to move both of them on-Brian and the club saw it differently in only not offering enough to Kanu but offering enough to satisfy our weak full-back.

When (and if) he plays an integral part in achieving promotion under Brian please feel free to come back on here with your Brian buddy Top Flight and gloat-I will happily read your gloating as it means we are back at the top level.
Regrettably I don't think you will be gloating.

erm....daft isn't abusive. in any way.

[Maneki Neko]

its daft to randomly say our lack of success over that period is his fault.
its also daft to say hes the equal of mosts/many championship RBs, while calling for him to be sold so we could get another would who could grow to that level.
its daft even if we had unlimited budget and didn't have way more important areas to strengthen.
youre daft

When you have stopped being abusive to people perhaps you will think a bit more before posting and think things through-you are becoming the 2016 version of spacey.
Gunter is a big part of our lack of success having contributed to our relegation from the Premier and now helping to drag us down to the lower reaches of the Championship and the club (foolishly IMHO) have given him a new 3 year contract just as the club (foolishly IMHO) gave Kanu a 3 year contract.

Obviously our lack of success is not just down to those two but I saw it as an opportunity to move both of them on-Brian and the club saw it differently in only not offering enough to Kanu but offering enough to satisfy our weak full-back.

When (and if) he plays an integral part in achieving promotion under Brian please feel free to come back on here with your Brian buddy Top Flight and gloat-I will happily read your gloating as it means we are back at the top level.
Regrettably I don't think you will be gloating.

why would I gloat about my random opinion if one day it proves to be right/wrong/insane, you daft waloon

[Maneki Neko]

Earlier within one of the thousands of "I love Brian" posts from Top Flight he referred to Gunter as a decent Championship full-back.
IIRC we paid something like £2,000,000 to sign a Premier League full-back and most of us seem to feel that we, Spurs and Forest all thought this player was better than he really is.
Time to cut our losses?

Similar actually to a lot of the signings made by McD (with the help of that Russian w@nkstain) after promotion, Pogrebnyak being the epitome of a player who was believed to be far better than he actually was.

But I remember I used to work with a Forest fan at the time and we spoke about the fact we'd signed two of their players (Gunter and McCleary) and the general feeling I got from him was that both were decent enough at Champ level but inconsistent, the type of players they could replace without too much trouble. Also had a friend that was a Watford fan, obviously we signed Mariappa at the time too, and his opinion on him was "he's ok, fast black man so that's good."

Reminds me of some of the players we've sold over the last 10 years or so for upwards of £1m, often we're thinking we've got a great price there, because we know from watching them every week that their really not that good, but for a club thats looking to buy they appear better than they actually are.

we say the same about most of the players we sell/who leave too.
human nature.


hes shit, didn't want him anyway etc

[Maneki Neko]

:roll: oxf*rd autists arguing over the definition of words.

I already said its just as much to do with physical numbers, and the effect on the squad, of taking your two highest scoring players and selling them midway through the season.

after only half a season Blackman and Sa are still pretty much our top scoring strikers. so I think its ok to describe them as our best.

It might've helped if you'd read what I was saying in response to your posts then, then you might've realised what I was saying so I didn't have to keep repeating it and hammering home the difference....

its daft to randomly say our lack of success over that period is his fault.
its also daft to say hes the equal of mosts/many championship RBs, while calling for him to be sold so we could get another would who could grow to that level.
its daft even if we had unlimited budget and didn't have way more important areas to strengthen.
youre daft

Did you lose all ability to read yesterday brendy? That's clearly not what IR was saying.

yawn

you keep on hammering hoop. go for broke

[Extended-Phenotype]

Not having anything both ways. Just saying you're argument is entirely hypothetical meaning you can hardly call Brendy ''wrong'' in his opposite supposition. 

Career records don't make it any less of a guess. Career record would suggest Blackman wouldn't have scored 10 goals at the start of the season. But he did. 

So it's all rather silly stating anyone is right or wrong, when the core of your argument is a comparison between two circumstances you've imagined.‎

Brendy said they were recognised goalscorers. How else do you recognise an ability to score goals other than their previous record?

That's the bit I'm saying he's wrong with, because our remaining forwards had similar or better track records.

Jesus

Another typical Hoop Blah groundhog day argument. I've already said they were far deserving of the label on account of being this seasons top goal scorers AND in what you quote above I pointed out CAREER form isn't at all useful here an why.

God this place really is an utter waste of time.

[RoyallyFcuked]

Earlier within one of the thousands of "I love Brian" posts from Top Flight he referred to Gunter as a decent Championship full-back.
IIRC we paid something like £2,000,000 to sign a Premier League full-back and most of us seem to feel that we, Spurs and Forest all thought this player was better than he really is.
Time to cut our losses?

Similar actually to a lot of the signings made by McD (with the help of that Russian w@nkstain) after promotion, Pogrebnyak being the epitome of a player who was believed to be far better than he actually was.

But I remember I used to work with a Forest fan at the time and we spoke about the fact we'd signed two of their players (Gunter and McCleary) and the general feeling I got from him was that both were decent enough at Champ level but inconsistent, the type of players they could replace without too much trouble. Also had a friend that was a Watford fan, obviously we signed Mariappa at the time too, and his opinion on him was "he's ok, fast black man so that's good."

Reminds me of some of the players we've sold over the last 10 years or so for upwards of £1m, often we're thinking we've got a great price there, because we know from watching them every week that their really not that good, but for a club thats looking to buy they appear better than they actually are.

we say the same about most of the players we sell/who leave too.
human nature.


hes shit, didn't want him anyway etc

Often there is truth in it though. The fans that watch a player week in week out usually know whether they are the real deal or not, and if we genuinely feel they are a quality player we wouldn't say he's shit anyway etc.

The only real deal we've had in recent years is Sigurdsson, although I thought McCarthy was at the time and you could say Long is now as well.

[RoyallyFcuked]

its daft to randomly say our lack of success over that period is his fault.
its also daft to say hes the equal of mosts/many championship RBs, while calling for him to be sold so we could get another would who could grow to that level.
its daft even if we had unlimited budget and didn't have way more important areas to strengthen.
youre daft

Did you lose all ability to read yesterday brendy? That's clearly not what IR was saying.

I knew it was brendy, can tell by the writing style and the fact he is a McDermott bum dweller.

How many more accounts are you going to make on here you loser, haven't you got like 6 already?