BFTG Wigan

[RoyalBlue]

The worst thing about this dreadful performance and result was that coming into the game we had a fantastic chance to take a significant step towards getting out of the relegation mire.

Had we beaten Wigan (and the other results still gone the way that they did) we would have been out of the relegation zone, two points and a better goal difference clear of Villa and with a demoralised Wigan team 5 points and a worse goal difference behind us.

Instead a completely inept performance by players and management have left us deep in trouble, facing a real uphill struggle, and with Wigan now riding the crest of a wave after the manner in which they comprehensively demolished one of their relegation rivals.

The performance we witnessed was utterly depressing (the MOTD analysis starkly illustrated how we were completely incapable of defending to save our PL lives) but, rather than acknowledge that and the mistakes made, McDermott came out with his usual platitudes. We do move on but with few grounds for real optimism given our forthcoming fixtures and the lack of a strong candidate to play the lone role up front (once again a poor transfer window with signings largely 'for the future' looks set to come back and haunt us).

Others have suggested that the players lack the bottle to be able to deal with real pressure situations. There may be some truth in that and, sadly to say, McDermott may also be suffering from the same problem (Swansea Playoff final?).

As for the 'we are better off than three years ago' argument, I saw a very good tweet along these lines: 'Saying we are better off than three years ago is a bit like winning £90M on the lottery, stupidly losing £89M of it and then saying 'we're still £1M better off than before''.

[sandman]

After watching Wigan play us off the park I got thinking the unthinkable.

The only way we're going to play passing football like Wigan & Swansea is when Brian leaves...............

We tried it under the previous manager, it didn't work, get over it.

[Snowball]

First goal, didn't look like handball from where I was but there were a lot of players in there. Came after a spell of pressure from Wigan that we couldn't break out of, thought a goal was coming and it duly did. Can't really understand why we were so weak at defensive set pieces when Morrison must be 6 inches taller than anyone on the pitch. Second goal was an absolute joke and was typical of how much space the team like to give opposition danger men, no one was anywhere near Kone, regardless of Morrison losing the ball as he did, it was suicide. Third goal, couldn't see too much of it as it was up the other end, but again it looked pretty simple, they just seemed to walk the ball through the centre of the team.

The guy who slipped Elwood tried a diving header, missed. It struck his right hand
and went to the second player who headed goalward. Very similar handball to Dembe Ba's

[floyd__streete]

Everyone who wants guthrie back in the team can jog on, he has been useless the last few weeks.

Oh fcuk off, he absolutely hasn't.

He has tho m8. Subbed off at Newcastle after a quite appaling performance (booked too), we turn the game around and win. At Man U he is brought on at 0-0, we concede twice within 5 or 10 minutes. Our best results and performances have tended to come when Guthrie hasn't been involved. This signing has worked out terribly for both us and him tbf.

[floyd__streete]

After watching Wigan play us off the park I got thinking the unthinkable.

The only way we're going to play passing football like Wigan & Swansea is when Brian leaves...............

We tried it under the previous manager, it didn't work, get over it.

That's not quite the full picture though is it.

BR tried to change too much too soon and didn't display the contrition to compromise when his attempts to get the likes of Kalifa Cisse to become a ball-playing midfielder failed. A more skilled manager would have compromised, consolidated, ground out some results and then imposed his preferred style which - as we saw on Saturday - is the way forward in this league.

[SCIAG]

Yeah, it certainly isn't impossible for us to EVER play passing football. Long term there's no difference between us and Wigan.

We were looking much better at keeping possession around the New Year and at the start of the season, but Guthrie has been dropped and Carrico has remained out of the side so that thought has disappeared.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Everyone who wants guthrie back in the team can jog on, he has been useless the last few weeks.

Oh fcuk off, he absolutely hasn't.

He has tho m8. Subbed off at Newcastle after a quite appaling performance (booked too), we turn the game around and win. At Man U he is brought on at 0-0, we concede twice within 5 or 10 minutes. Our best results and performances have tended to come when Guthrie hasn't been involved. This signing has worked out terribly for both us and him tbf.

He also played the last 10 mins at Man City and came off at 0-2 v Chelsea. Guthrie is a bad egg, get rid.

[yappy]

I got a bit of flack after the Man Utd game for criticising our style, which admittingly may have been a little harsh because of the opposition, but I think Saturday proved all my doubts correct. We'll never be able to survive in the Premier League unless we can actually learn to pass the ball. Away to Man Utd you can understand the no-risk, hard-working approach, but against weaker teams we need to be able to take the game to them, and we can't.

A lot of people say that Guthrie shouldn't be starting as he hasn't done much in a Reading shirt, but the reality of it is that he should be walking into this team. Now I'm not saying Guthrie is our saviour however he is the only player that can pass the ball, which should be a given at this level. Leigertwood always looks for an easy ball, and if there isn't one he just hesitates on the ball and loses it. Karacan huffs and puffs but he can't pass. I'm not sure if I've ever seen Leigertwood or Karacan play a pass like Akpan did against Chelsea, and he's only been here two minutes.

Leigertwood is also very slow, which I think causes us issues. Watch whenever a team counter attacks and you'll see Mikele just strolling back, I'm not sure if I've ever seen him run? Once the opposition midfield get past him he isn't catching. Carrico seems to have a bit more pace about him, so I'm hoping we can get him fit.

McAnuff for me is too predictable. Playing on the left he doesn't really seem to have the pace to go on the outside of a full back, so he always has to cut inwards and other teams seem to be reading it very easily.

Pog has done nothing to justify being our highest earner. I'm reading alot of "he's works really hard", but so what? Jay Tabb works hard, Andy Hughes worked hard. No point in working hard if you have a lack of quality. Pog, for a big guy, doesn't win half as much as he should in the air, and he's too immobile and doesn't have a good enough touch to hold it up. I honestly think Noel Hunt would play the role better with his energy (and he wins alot more in the air). A lack of service is without doubt a problem, but a good striker should be bringing others into play and not just the other way round.

The Alex Pearce situation is a joke, but that goes without saying...

[Gordons Cumming]

Yeah, it certainly isn't impossible for us to EVER play passing football. Long term there's no difference between us and Wigan.

We were looking much better at keeping possession around the New Year and at the start of the season, but Guthrie has been dropped and Carrico has remained out of the side so that thought has disappeared.

It's no good just having one or two passers, the whole team must do it. It really isn't that difficult.

It just needs good training.

The players are good at it when warming up before a game. Watch them in that little square they make.

[RoyalBlue]

Yeah, it certainly isn't impossible for us to EVER play passing football. Long term there's no difference between us and Wigan.

We were looking much better at keeping possession around the New Year and at the start of the season, but Guthrie has been dropped and Carrico has remained out of the side so that thought has disappeared.

It's no good just having one or two passers, the whole team must do it. It really isn't that difficult.

It just needs good training.

The players are good at it when warming up before a game. Watch them in that little square they make.

Didn't you see how they made that little square in the lead up to Wigan's third? Trouble is, they forgot that they needed possession of the ball!

[LoyalRoyal22]

I say it when we win or lose. Cant actually believe we are playing Harte and Ledge every week in the Premier league. Cant believe we didnt manage to sign a creative midfielder in January also. Also surely Carrico would be a better option half-fit than the others in midfield. I reckon we will go down but only 1 point behind with 11 to play so at least it should go down to the wire.

[Gordons Cumming]

I say it when we win or lose. Cant actually believe we are playing Harte and Ledge every week in the Premier league. Cant believe we didnt manage to sign a creative midfielder in January also. Also surely Carrico would be a better option half-fit than the others in midfield. I reckon we will go down but only 1 point behind with 11 to play so at least it should go down to the wire.

Need a few points before the Utd game...........

[Ian Royal]

Generally supportive of BMac but I don't understand why we devi8ed from the team that put in our best performance for ages against Sunderland.

Going three in the middle is fine if one of them is a creator, but that selection made no sense.

We got absolutely schooled and Brian's assessment just seems bizarre to me. "There was nothing in it until they handballed a goal in" - err yes there was, they played all the football and Federici had kept us in it with a couple of good saves.

Terrible performance and I totally agree with comparisons to that 2-0 defeat by Fulham in 2008.

The only positive I can draw is that it might be a rude awakening to players who maybe thought they were on a roll to safety and it's come early enough to check the errors and do enough to stay up in the remaining games. Our inability to beat teams around us is proving familiar though, you're right.

[Royal Ginger]

Guthrie in for Karacan and Pearce in for Morrison and it could have been a very different story without any tactic change.

[grey_squirrel]

Lots of new analysing threads today, so didn't want to start yet another one but am I the only one seeing the stark, frightening resemblance and similarity between our game against Wigan and Bradford v Swansea?

One team, composed, time on the ball, players running off the ball into spaces, helping team mates out, passing, patient, clinically hitting the killer ball at the right time, chasing down the oppo (especially in the last third), giving them no time on the ball.

And

The other team with no footballers, with only two hopes - hoofing and panicking or panicking and hoofing?

Forget the obvious Martinez factor, the blatant obvious facts speak for themselves.

Worrying.

Very.

[blythspartan]

Lots of new analysing threads today, so didn't want to start yet another one but am I the only one seeing the stark, frightening resemblance and similarity between our game against Wigan and Bradford v Swansea?

One team, composed, time on the ball, players running off the ball into spaces, helping team mates out, passing, patient, clinically hitting the killer ball at the right time, chasing down the oppo (especially in the last third), giving them no time on the ball.

And

The other team with no footballers, with only two hopes - hoofing and panicking or panicking and hoofing?

Forget the obvious Martinez factor, the blatant obvious facts speak for themselves.

Worrying.

Very.

Agree with this.

I thought after the Sunderland game that we might be turning a corner in terms of keeping possession of the football but we looked like a 4th division outfit on Saturday.

I am still hoping that we can survive but I have to say that we only seem to be able to produce cup football against the so called better teams, which makes us look better than we are. It pains me to say it but we look like the worse team in the Premiership.

[Big Ern]

After watching Wigan play us off the park I got thinking the unthinkable.

The only way we're going to play passing football like Wigan & Swansea is when Brian leaves...............

It has been my opinion all season. Maybe I am more ruthless than some, but he is the management version of Korkss. Great a Chump level, can't hack it a Premiership level.

We have no choice to stick with him now and he should be given time in the Chump, but the board will be making yet another huge error if they let him loose on another full Premiership campaign. Being loyal is great, but loyalty doesn't win you any points in the Prem and we need to be more ruthless when it comes to our playing staff and management in the future.

[Avon Royal]

After watching Wigan play us off the park I got thinking the unthinkable.

The only way we're going to play passing football like Wigan & Swansea is when Brian leaves...............

We tried it under the previous manager, it didn't work, get over it.

Yeah, we gave it all of four months!

[winchester_royal]

Problem is our fans simply don't have the patience to withstand the transitional process that such a shift in style would inevitably require. Rodgers was given very little time by most on here to get a certain style working, and I can't see it being any different with another manager.

Parky will be the next manager, and we'll remain the same hit-and-hope side for the next 10 years.

[rhroyal]

Problem is our fans simply don't have the patience to withstand the transitional process that such a shift in style would inevitably require. Rodgers was given very little time by most on here to get a certain style working, and I can't see it being any different with another manager.

Parky will be the next manager, and we'll remain the same hit-and-hope side for the next 10 years.

Tbf, going to League 1 would have been a disaster. Rodgers didn't have to go so all out and change our entire back room and force so much change in such a short time.

He's learned that at Liverpool; he's moving change more slowly, and as they're not on the brink of losing so much, the fans are more patient.

I do wonder if we'd be in a better position had we given him more time, handling the PL like Swansea. If he'd kept us up, maybe. Had we gone down, no chance.