BFTG Wigan

[winchester_royal]

Problem is our fans simply don't have the patience to withstand the transitional process that such a shift in style would inevitably require. Rodgers was given very little time by most on here to get a certain style working, and I can't see it being any different with another manager.

Parky will be the next manager, and we'll remain the same hit-and-hope side for the next 10 years.

Tbf, going to League 1 would have been a disaster. Rodgers didn't have to go so all out and change our entire back room and force so much change in such a short time.

He's learned that at Liverpool; he's moving change more slowly, and as they're not on the brink of losing so much, the fans are more patient.

I do wonder if we'd be in a better position had we given him more time, handling the PL like Swansea. If he'd kept us up, maybe. Had we gone down, no chance.

I thought progress was slowly being made (if Gylfi had brought his shooting boots to the Scunny game we'd have won 10-0) and there was very little chance of relegation IMO. We told him he had 3 years and expected him to turn an average squad into Barcelona. I'm sure he made mistakes, and yes he could have been a little more humble, but as was shown by the groans and moans every time a CB chose to pass sideways rather than punt it into the channel..the crowd at the madejski simply doesn't have the basic understanding to appreciate the difficulties of a transitional period. Anybody coming in looking to get us to play in a Swansea-esque style would need an amount of time that he wouldn't get from us. It would need Zingarevich to be a lot braver than Madejski in terms of ignoring the fans protests to make a move like that work.

[Avon Royal]

I think the fans have probably come a long way to be fair. Football has changed and to his credit Rodgers was probably ahead of the game. I think more fans would tolerate a few years of transition now than they would back then.

I think I would rather be in League One under a progressive manager than in the Championship under McDermott.

[rhroyal]

Agreed the game has developed since then, the fans would be more understanding now. We had never undergone such a sobering experience as this season under Coppell; we had come up marginally short. Now the same method of playing looks long outdated; it wasn't at the time.

[Denver Royal]

Problem is our fans simply don't have the patience to withstand the transitional process that such a shift in style would inevitably require. Rodgers was given very little time by most on here to get a certain style working, and I can't see it being any different with another manager.

Parky will be the next manager, and we'll remain the same hit-and-hope side for the next 10 years.

Parky? It rarely works out with former players. But yeah, we're prolly naive enough to do that.

A neighbor of mine (who BTW was and is a fan of Rodgers ) was joking around the other day, saying promotion to Premo shouldn't be automatic. To be considered, you'd have to justify your promotion in advance by committing to invest a set amount of dosh on your team to improve it, so as not to waste everybody's time. Anyways, he was just joking (I think ).

[72 bus]

The harsh truth is that if we are to develop into a team that can operate at this level successfully, we need to let Brian go.
Tactically he is stuck in the 70's and he is slow to learn, either that or he needs someone alongside him with some modern ideas.
I doubt if Gibbs is much of a visionary when it comes to tactical ideas.
Yesterdays men, both of them

[winchester_royal]

The harsh truth is that if we are to develop into a team that can operate at this level successfully, we need to let Brian go.
Tactically he is stuck in the 70's and he is slow to learn, either that or he needs someone alongside him with some modern ideas.
I doubt if Gibbs is much of a visionary when it comes to tactical ideas.
Yesterdays men, both of them

He deserves the chance to build a team that will play better football with a decent amount of investment. It would be interesting to know how much of our style atm is down to Brian's preference and how much is down to sheer necessity arising from how the squad fails miserably in comparison to every other squad in the league.

[72 bus]

The harsh truth is that if we are to develop into a team that can operate at this level successfully, we need to let Brian go.
Tactically he is stuck in the 70's and he is slow to learn, either that or he needs someone alongside him with some modern ideas.
I doubt if Gibbs is much of a visionary when it comes to tactical ideas.
Yesterdays men, both of them

He deserves the chance to build a team that will play better football with a decent amount of investment. It would be interesting to know how much of our style atm is down to Brian's preference and how much is down to sheer necessity arising from how the squad fails miserably in comparison to every other squad in the league.

We still played hit and hope percentage football in the championship and the squad was comparable to the other teams in that league.
We do not have the technical ability in the team to play any other way no matter what league we play in.
And Brian just buys more of the same, coaches them in the same outdated ways and sends them out with only one game plan and no plan B.
Even Kelly has started drifting inside now just like every other right back we have tried this season, this has to be down to the coaching, most likely from that 80's era fullback Gibbs.
A shake up is needed whether we stay up or not.

[RoyalBlue]

The harsh truth is that if we are to develop into a team that can operate at this level successfully, we need to let Brian go.
Tactically he is stuck in the 70's and he is slow to learn, either that or he needs someone alongside him with some modern ideas.
I doubt if Gibbs is much of a visionary when it comes to tactical ideas.
Yesterdays men, both of them

He deserves the chance to build a team that will play better football with a decent amount of investment. It would be interesting to know how much of our style atm is down to Brian's preference and how much is down to sheer necessity arising from how the squad fails miserably in comparison to every other squad in the league.

We still played hit and hope percentage football in the championship and the squad was comparable to the other teams in that league.
We do not have the technical ability in the team to play any other way no matter what league we play in.
And Brian just buys more of the same, coaches them in the same outdated ways and sends them out with only one game plan and no plan B.
Even Kelly has started drifting inside now just like every other right back we have tried this season, this has to be down to the coaching, most likely from that 80's era fullback Gibbs.
A shake up is needed whether we stay up or not.

Is this where our new(ish) coach comes in?

[sandman]

I think the fans have probably come a long way to be fair. Football has changed and to his credit Rodgers was probably ahead of the game. I think more fans would tolerate a few years of transition now than they would back then.

I think I would rather be in League One under a progressive manager than in the Championship under McDermott.

No you wouldn't! you'd be be even more unbearably miserable than you are now and you know it.

Personally I don't mind waiting for a transition in style of play to pan out if it was done slowly but the way Rodgers did it here was terrible and he made it worse by not allowing the players leeway in the game plan. He had no plan b and he still doesn't.

[Pandoras Box]

We have to change the attitude. F* all this PR Bullsh1t on twitter every ten minutes - to show they're all matey. F* all this Facebook cr@p. F* going to Dubai to 'bond' and gurn at the camera. F* all the photoshoots and school visits. This isn't 'A Hard Day's Night' a la the Beatles. It isn't some B list footballer's reality show. It is the Premier league with professional players on professional money. Five minutes before kick off Saturday, Morrison chatting and having a good ol' 'larff' at the back(and we saw the results of that) whilst Wigan - working themselves up and FOCUSING on the job in hand. McD trying to be one of the lads, needs to distance himself and kick some f..ing @rse when they cant be bothered instead of blaming the ref. Name one athlete or sports person who spends the moments before an important event having jokes with the crowd or team mates. It doesn't happen except at Reading.

[AthleticoSpizz]

Oh dear

[sandman]

We have to change the attitude. F* all this PR Bullsh1t on twitter every ten minutes - to show they're all matey. F* all this Facebook cr@p. F* going to Dubai to 'bond' and gurn at the camera. F* all the photoshoots and school visits. This isn't 'A Hard Day's Night' a la the Beatles. It isn't some B list footballer's reality show. It is the Premier league with professional players on professional money. Five minutes before kick off Saturday, Morrison chatting and having a good ol' 'larff' at the back(and we saw the results of that) whilst Wigan - working themselves up and FOCUSING on the job in hand. McD trying to be one of the lads, needs to distance himself and kick some f..ing @rse when they cant be bothered instead of blaming the ref. Name one athlete or sports person who spends the moments before an important event having jokes with the crowd or team mates. It doesn't happen except at Reading.

[RoyalBlue]

I think the fans have probably come a long way to be fair. Football has changed and to his credit Rodgers was probably ahead of the game. I think more fans would tolerate a few years of transition now than they would back then.

I think I would rather be in League One under a progressive manager than in the Championship under McDermott.

No you wouldn't! you'd be be even more unbearably miserable than you are now and you know it.

Personally I don't mind waiting for a transition in style of play to pan out if it was done slowly but the way Rodgers did it here was terrible and he made it worse by not allowing the players leeway in the game plan. He had no plan b and he still doesn't.

And McDermott does? If so, it's about damn time he used it!

[MmmMonsterMunch]

I think the fans have probably come a long way to be fair. Football has changed and to his credit Rodgers was probably ahead of the game. I think more fans would tolerate a few years of transition now than they would back then.

I think I would rather be in League One under a progressive manager than in the Championship under McDermott.

Fans don't give a sh1t about style of play in the end IMO. It's a results business - had we beaten Stoke & Wigan & carried on the good post Xmas form no one would be on here whinging at all. We'd pretty much all be loving it.

The odd few would express concern about how "we're going to get caught out eventually" but that would be it. All fans just want to see their team win at the end of the day.

[sandman]

I think the fans have probably come a long way to be fair. Football has changed and to his credit Rodgers was probably ahead of the game. I think more fans would tolerate a few years of transition now than they would back then.

I think I would rather be in League One under a progressive manager than in the Championship under McDermott.

No you wouldn't! you'd be be even more unbearably miserable than you are now and you know it.

Personally I don't mind waiting for a transition in style of play to pan out if it was done slowly but the way Rodgers did it here was terrible and he made it worse by not allowing the players leeway in the game plan. He had no plan b and he still doesn't.

And McDermott does? If so, it's about damn time he used it!

You may not have noticed as you were too busy moaning but we've already switched to a plan b this season when we went 4-5-1 and results improved in doing so. McDermott has always played to his teams strengths as evidenced by his first six months in charge where he built the team around it's most talented and skillful player.

As per you're throwing a strop because we lost a game and it's about damn time you changed the record and grew up.

[Avon Royal]

I think the fans have probably come a long way to be fair. Football has changed and to his credit Rodgers was probably ahead of the game. I think more fans would tolerate a few years of transition now than they would back then.

I think I would rather be in League One under a progressive manager than in the Championship under McDermott.

Fans don't give a sh1t about style of play in the end IMO. It's a results business - had we beaten Stoke & Wigan & carried on the good post Xmas form no one would be on here whinging at all. We'd pretty much all be loving it.

The odd few would express concern about how "we're going to get caught out eventually" but that would be it. All fans just want to see their team win at the end of the day.

Maybe some fans don't care about the style of play, but as you know I've been banging on about our lack of quality and creativity for years.

[Croydon Royal]

Even Kelly has started drifting inside now just like every other right back we have tried this season, this has to be down to the coaching, most likely from that 80's era fullback Gibbs.

This is an interesting point and something that concerned me in particular during Saturday's debacle. However I'd wager that it was less down to coaching or Kelly's mentality than the fact Morrison was at centre back constantly out of position. It's no coincidence that when Pearce (or even Gorkks) has been playing this season and last, the right back has been less inclined (forced?) to get sucked inside. The times when it has been a huge problem (i.e. Gunter and Cummings doing it before Christmas) was when we had Morrison at the back, whose poor decision-making and positioning throws the whole defensive shape out of whack. Therefore came as no surprise that this problem returned again on Saturday.

[The Rouge]

Even Kelly has started drifting inside now just like every other right back we have tried this season, this has to be down to the coaching, most likely from that 80's era fullback Gibbs.

This is an interesting point and something that concerned me in particular during Saturday's debacle. However I'd wager that it was less down to coaching or Kelly's mentality than the fact Morrison was at centre back constantly out of position. It's no coincidence that when Pearce (or even Gorkks) has been playing this season and last, the right back has been less inclined (forced?) to get sucked inside. The times when it has been a huge problem (i.e. Gunter and Cummings doing it before Christmas) was when we had Morrison at the back, whose poor decision-making and positioning throws the whole defensive shape out of whack. Therefore came as no surprise that this problem returned again on Saturday.

Can you elabor8 on what you mean by 'drifting inside' here..? Do you mean staying narrow/closer to the centre back when the other team are attacking, protecting against the ball between full back/centre back - or something else? We did offer then the ball out wide too many times, but teams are often over protective against the ball described above as it often equals goal if done correctly, whereas with the ball out wide they have full back and centre back still to beat.

For what it is worth, I think:

- The position Maloney (and sometimes McArthur) took up were positive, further up the pitch and with Kone and Di Santo against our back line, enabled this constant ball out wide and was responsible for Boyce looking like Roberto Carlos as much as anything.
- Kelly was our best outfield player

I am less annoyed about the starting line up than I am that McD didn't tactically change anything after 15-20 mins when the pattern was set and they were playing though our 4-5-1 with ease.

[Croydon Royal]

Can you elabor8 on what you mean by 'drifting inside' here..? Do you mean staying narrow/closer to the centre back when the other team are attacking, protecting against the ball between full back/centre back - or something else? We did offer then the ball out wide too many times, but teams are often over protective against the ball described above as it often equals goal if done correctly, whereas with the ball out wide they have full back and centre back still to beat.

For what it is worth, I think:

- The position Maloney (and sometimes McArthur) took up were positive, further up the pitch and with Kone and Di Santo against our back line, enabled this constant ball out wide and was responsible for Boyce looking like Roberto Carlos as much as anything.
- Kelly was our best outfield player

I am less annoyed about the starting line up than I am that McD didn't tactically change anything after 15-20 mins when the pattern was set and they were playing though our 4-5-1 with ease.

Completely agree that Kelly was our best outfield player, I certainly wasn't having a go at him. In fact I think the problem he had (and what I was getting at before) is that he often had two jobs. With Morrison often out of position (or just out of touch with the game) Kelly often had to play narrower to stop the simple ball through the middle or deal with Di Santo or Kone. This therefore left a huge amount of space down our right hand side that Wigan could exploit - which they did excellently. Some people could blame Kebe for not tracking back, but when you're at home to a relegation rival and are relying on him to be one of your only creative oulets you can't blame him for not spending the entire game being a secondary right-back. In the recent games when we've had Pearce & Marriappa marshalling the backline, Kelly has been able to play a bit wider, looking after the left winger rather than concerned about constantly covering the centre back's lapses in concentration, and we've looked far better for it. I'm thinking of the Newcastle away game in particular, when Kelly and Kebe worked brilliantly together and looked like a threat for us down the right.

[Hoop Blah]

Baffled by both McDermotts team selections (that's a long term issue for me) and the way the team were so seemingly dis-interested at times in what was a massive game for us. Really disappointing and damaging for our chances of survival with the run of games we've now got.

4-5-1, or any variation on that formation, is still the best way for us to go and get a result in this league but the balance of the side, or at least it's intention once out on the pitch has to be different. That's even more the case when you're at home against a totally beatable side stuck in the relegation zone with you. We did a much better job against Sunderland where we had players getting forward to support Pogrebnyak whilst also restricting their chances more effectively. Also, If that game isn't a six pointer McDermott I really don't know what it.

Having said that, our performances in our good run, haven't suggested we'd really turned a corner, more that we'd just managed to turn a few losing positions into fantastic results thanks to some great finishing from Le Fondre and a real will to play to the final whistle and not accept we're dead and buried. Such a shame we didn't really show that on Saturday though.

I see a few people on here have repeated McDermotts claims that we were well in the game for the first 42 minutes and everything was fine until we went behind. I'd agree if that 42 was actually 22, or perhaps 32. We'd created the early chances and should really have taken the lead, but for the 10 minutes before they scored it seemed to be one way traffic and their goal was certainly coming. The possible hand ball might not've helped our cause but the bigger issue is our shocking defending!

As I said above, I've been baffled by some of McDermotts decisions and team selections all season and the dropping of Pearce again made very little sense as has his treatment of Guthrie all season. At times he's looked way out of his depth and his post match interviews are at times painful to watch. Saturday was one of those where he seemed to be struggling and ends up talking in riddles and random statements instead of a coherent answer or analysis. I worry for him and the team when I see him like that as it looks like it's all getting a bit too much for him.