Back From The Game - Nottm Forest

[Woodcote Royal]

When the team was announced you could have knocked me down with a feather

It was sheer good fortune that I was still sat in the car park

Simply, what a statement of intent for the season that selection was and, as such, for me this was the real story of Brendan Rodgers first competitive match.

Apparently, he'd phoned Steve Coppell in the week to thank him for gifting him such an excellent bunch of players. However, I'm guessing he didn't go on to say "Why the fcuk did so few of the best ones make your first team? That's all going change at the weekend"

Apart from relegation from the Premiership, the one area of SJM's mission statement that has so far failed to reach fruition despite heavy investment is the development of home grown talent.

Well folks, nearly 20k bore witness to the fact that they've now arrived and, if I was a Forest fan I'd have found that a rather depressing sight given their thoroughly cynical display .

Either, BR went out of his way to pick young players wherever possible so that it will now be a case of senior players trying to get into HIS team rather him taking over Coppell's side or, he believes this will prove to be the best team and approach for the future of the club......................I'm inclined to go with the latter.

If it proves to be the case, this was not far short of being as big a day for RFC as our first day in the Prem and, frankly, I can't wait!

Saturday was all about RFC putting out a team of largely home grown youngsters that didn't look out of place in the 2nd tier of English football and everything else comes a poor second.

A team of experienced pros would not be close to the finished article in the time BR has had to build his side. There's significant room for improvement and this approach may well (but not necessarily) cost us promotion this season but it's a process we have to go through to get this club to where I believe it now belongs: in the top flight and established there.

As for the team on the day, I agree with most of the sensible opinions expressed here.

Karacan's selection and performance didn't surprise me as he should have been a fixture in last season's team and as for Scott Davies!!! no wonder Coppell didn't want him hanging round the place making his favourites look rather ordinary

I know that watching the ball being passed along the back four is not the most exciting way to spend an afternoon but it's what good teams do when they're waiting for an opportunity to strike, rather than giving away the ball cheaply and allowing the opposition a chance to impose themselves. This was one of our biggest faults under Steve Coppell which led to countless goals being conceded, especially straight after the half time break.

In a few weeks time, this team will win these types of game but some poor delivery and the general lack of understanding between players that goes with building a new side cost us when it really mattered and, as Rother says, patience is what's required by the fans right now.

If there's was a downside to Saturday it's that the days of established players like Harper and Marek look numbered to me and will soon be on their way (and, yes, that includes Hunt )

I can't see Davies and Karacan getting dropped in current form as they already look more effective than their more experienced rivals.

A brilliant afternoon (especially with a spare seat between Mr A and myself for bottock spreading purposes ) and despite the fact work forced me to miss the last 15 mins.

[Royal Rother]

Good to see such a positive post from of the Board's most cynical old gits!

[Thaumagurist*]

I know that watching the ball being passed along the back four is not the most exciting way to spend an afternoon but it's what good teams do when they're waiting for an opportunity to strike, rather than giving away the ball cheaply and allowing the opposition a chance to impose themselves. This was one of our biggest faults under Steve Coppell which led to countless goals being conceded, especially straight after the half time break.

In a few weeks time, this team will win these types of game but some poor delivery and the general lack of understanding between players that goes with building a new side cost us when it really mattered and, as Rother says, patience is what's required by the fans right now.

Ok, have some patience, but sometimes you wonder when the time to strike occurs and passes the team by. We need some bravery too.

Tommy Burns had the team passing too much and getting too many bore draws. I don't want that to happen again.

[Vision]

When the team was announced you could have knocked me down with a feather

It was sheer good fortune that I was still sat in the car park

Simply, what a statement of intent for the season that selection was and, as such, for me this was the real story of Brendan Rodgers first competitive match.

Apparently, he'd phoned Steve Coppell in the week to thank him for gifting him such an excellent bunch of players. However, I'm guessing he didn't go on to say "Why the fcuk did so few of the best ones make your first team? That's all going change at the weekend"

Apart from relegation from the Premiership, the one area of SJM's mission statement that has so far failed to reach fruition despite heavy investment is the development of home grown talent.

Well folks, nearly 20k bore witness to the fact that they've now arrived and, if I was a Forest fan I'd have found that a rather depressing sight given their thoroughly cynical display .

Either, BR went out of his way to pick young players wherever possible so that it will now be a case of senior players trying to get into HIS team rather him taking over Coppell's side or, he believes this will prove to be the best team and approach for the future of the club......................I'm inclined to go with the latter.

If it proves to be the case, this was not far short of being as big a day for RFC as our first day in the Prem and, frankly, I can't wait!

Saturday was all about RFC putting out a team of largely home grown youngsters that didn't look out of place in the 2nd tier of English football and everything else comes a poor second.

A team of experienced pros would not be close to the finished article in the time BR has had to build his side. There's significant room for improvement and this approach may well (but not necessarily) cost us promotion this season but it's a process we have to go through to get this club to where I believe it now belongs: in the top flight and established there.

As for the team on the day, I agree with most of the sensible opinions expressed here.

Karacan's selection and performance didn't surprise me as he should have been a fixture in last season's team and as for Scott Davies!!! no wonder Coppell didn't want him hanging round the place making his favourites look rather ordinary

I know that watching the ball being passed along the back four is not the most exciting way to spend an afternoon but it's what good teams do when they're waiting for an opportunity to strike, rather than giving away the ball cheaply and allowing the opposition a chance to impose themselves. This was one of our biggest faults under Steve Coppell which led to countless goals being conceded, especially straight after the half time break.

In a few weeks time, this team will win these types of game but some poor delivery and the general lack of understanding between players that goes with building a new side cost us when it really mattered and, as Rother says, patience is what's required by the fans right now.

If there's was a downside to Saturday it's that the days of established players like Harper and Marek look numbered to me and will soon be on their way (and, yes, that includes Hunt )

I can't see Davies and Karacan getting dropped in current form as they already look more effective than their more experienced rivals.

A brilliant afternoon (especially with a spare seat between Mr A and myself for bottock spreading purposes ) and despite the fact work forced me to miss the last 15 mins.

Agree with the sentiment but then thats been my opinion for ages. Well done for only mentioning Coppell 4 times as well.

[Sun Tzu]

A good read Woodcote and a lot to agree with.

I know it would go against the grain but how about an acknowledgement that the fact that so many of these youngsters looked at home may just be down to the way Coppell has managed them in the last 2 or 3 years.

He's left Brendan not only with a clutch of youngsters with a fair amount of ability but he's also ensured that most of them have a season or more or experience behind them so they come into our team with the hardest part of their learning behind them.

This was a deliberate policy by Coppell and whilst I can see it may have delayed them breaking through by a few months I think it greatly increases their chances of being a success.

Huge well done to Brendan for his approach though. I remain convinced that this will be an interesting season for us.

I await the accusation that I enjoy carnal relations with Mr Coppell

[Royalee]

Spot on Woodcote and RR, as you both have been recently in everything you've said.

[Royal Rother]

Spacey, he's had 5 weeks and 1 competitive game so far - surely you can acknowledge the progress he has achieved in that time? To have 11+ players who are comfortable passing it around is brilliant progress after what we saw for much of last season, especially when considering, with the time spent away in the last couple of years Church, Davies and Robson Kanu plus Bertrand would have been virtual strangers to the squad.

Whether that was Phase 1, 2, 3 / whatever then I'm sure it has been achieved far faster than Rodgers would have expected when he arrived.

He's hardly likely to forget that sticking the ball in the back of the net is actually what the game is all about.

Patience and faith should definitely be the watchwords for this season and to be honest I find it extraordinary that a good number of supporters are already finding things to be critical about.

[RobRoyal]

That's a good read Woodcote, thanks for the interesting summary.

[Woodcote Royal]

A good read Woodcote and a lot to agree with.

I know it would go against the grain but how about an acknowledgement that the fact that so many of these youngsters looked at home may just be down to the way Coppell has managed them in the last 2 or 3 years.

He's left Brendan not only with a clutch of youngsters with a fair amount of ability but he's also ensured that most of them have a season or more or experience behind them so they come into our team with the hardest part of their learning behind them.

This was a deliberate policy by Coppell and whilst I can see it may have delayed them breaking through by a few months I think it greatly increases their chances of being a success.

Huge well done to Brendan for his approach though. I remain convinced that this will be an interesting season for us.

I await the accusation that I enjoy carnal relations with Mr Coppell

I blame Coppell for creating this bottleneck of young talent and losing the striker who should now be in our team and not West Brom's..............................it was so nice to be reminded why I pay to keep my seat when I regularly have to leave it empty.

PS. After about 10 minutes I was struck by the huge difference that one less bald head to my left was making to events on the pitch

[Thaumagurist*]

Spacey, he's had 5 weeks and 1 competitive game so far - surely you can acknowledge the progress he has achieved in that time? To have 11+ players who are comfortable passing it around is brilliant progress after what we saw for much of last season, especially when considering, with the time spent away in the last couple of years Church, Davies and Robson Kanu plus Bertrand would have been virtual strangers to the squad.

Whether that was Phase 1, 2, 3 / whatever then I'm sure it has been achieved far faster than Rodgers would have expected when he arrived.

He's hardly likely to forget that sticking the ball in the back of the net is actually what the game is all about.

Patience and faith should definitely be the watchwords for this season and to be honest I find it extraordinary that a good number of supporters are already finding things to be critical about.

I'm not saying that the excessive passing is a bad thing. And yes, I think Brendan is doing a good job so far. I'm waiting for the next few games to see what progress we've made. However, I would hope that we'll get braver, recognise the opportunities to act upon before letting them pass us by. How many shots on goal did we have?

[Royal Rother]

7 plus a header or 2 I believe. Not great but we had worse last season whilst playing ineffective hoof-it-down-the-channels football.

[Maguire]

7 plus a header or 2 I believe. Not great but we had worse last season whilst playing ineffective hoof-it-down-the-channels football.

I don't think you can get much worse than zero shots on target. Did we have any?

[Ian Royal]

Interesting to see that the two best worked chances for us showed on the Beeb highlights on the web (slightly extended from the TV?) were balls put in/created by HRK. The player many thought did nothing compared to Kebe. Who incidently was the one arsing up one of HRK's crosses. (labouring the point a little maybe)

I think Woodcote has a very good post that is slightly blinkered by anti Coppellism. After all Pearce and Karacan both got double figure appearances for us last season under Coppell.

And as for them being picked ahead of Coppell's senior players because they are genuinely better. Well the ones that missed out (SHunt, NHunt, Matejovsky, Harper, Ivar, Bikey) were all either injured, recovering from injury or suspended.

A good post weakened by prejudice and ignoring information that undermines his view of the previous management.

[Ian Royal]

7 plus a header or 2 I believe. Not great but we had worse last season whilst playing ineffective hoof-it-down-the-channels football.

Yet only one or two came even close to testing the keeper. Same problem as last season but with a different style and cause. Same difficulty breaking down a team there to hold for a draw.

Hopefully this system will see an increase in effective attack though, because there is certainly room for improvement there as the players get more confident and comfortable with the system and their roles.

[Sun Tzu]

7 plus a header or 2 I believe. Not great but we had worse last season whilst playing ineffective hoof-it-down-the-channels football.

I don't think you can get much worse than zero shots on target. Did we have any?

Yes, a couple as I recall.

And you can get much worse than zero shots on target. Zero shots would be worse and initself a 'shot on target' as logged by the statisticians doesn;t mean a huge lot. I'd rather have a thumping shot go narrowly wide (Davies free kick for example) than a scuffed shot rolling into the keepers arms.

[Royalee]

Interesting to see that the two best worked chances for us showed on the Beeb highlights on the web (slightly extended from the TV?) were balls put in/created by HRK. The player many thought did nothing compared to Kebe. Who incidently was the one arsing up one of HRK's crosses.

I think Woodcote has a very good post that is slightly blinkered by anti Coppellism. After all Pearce and Karacan both got double figure appearances for us last season under Coppell.

And as for them being picked ahead of Coppell's senior players because they are genuinely better. Well the ones that missed out (SHunt, NHunt, Matejovsky, Harper, Ivar, Bikey) were all either injured, recovering from injury or suspended.

A good post weakened by prejudice and ignoring information that undermines his view of the previous management.

It's funny, I sometimes really have to think back on here when others try and make up stuff to fit their arguments, thanks for backing up my point that RK actually managed to create more than Kebe as I had remembered. Goes to show the poor memory of some on here and predetermined opinions they have.

I can see where you're coming from about those players being injured, but Rodgers will more than likely have had some impact on the likes of Duberry, Lita, Hahnemann and so forth leaving, plus Gunnarsson was fully fit along with Armstrong and you'd have thought if he rated Harper he might have brought him on for the last 15 minutes for a run-out as we were pushing for a goal. Either way, I think we'll see how little Rodgers rates Shunt and Harper in the next few weeks.

As for blooding Federici, Karacan and Pearce last season, I see where you're coming from again but you ignore the fact that both were very harshly dropped when we were performing well and even you must admit that if the tables were turned and it was Hahnemann, Harper and Duberry who were playing well they'd never have been questioned. The point I believe most are trying to make about Coppell was his lack of confidence in youth players and his tendency to be far, far too quick to the point of complete unfairness and loss of team morale in terms of taking them back out if things weren't rosy (usually due to the incompetence of favourites he'd picked elsewhere on the pitch).

[Ian Royal]

Harper isn't the player you bring on when you're chasing a goal generall.

Coppell definitely had a weakness for experience and what he knew had worked previously

That is an excellent post from you considering it involves Coppell!

Oh and Kebe did more than HRK, but HRK's fewer moments seemed to come closer to creating goals. Probably because of Kebe's habit of creating a chance purely to ruin it himself before anyone else can. And in fairness, Forest had obviously targeted him as a danger man. IIRC he often had 2-3 on him as soon as he got the ball.

[Royalee]

Harper isn't the player you bring on when you're chasing a goal generall.

Coppell definitely had a weakness for experience and what he knew had worked previously

That is an excellent post from you considering it involves Coppell!

Oh and Kebe did more than HRK, but HRK's fewer moments seemed to come closer to creating goals. Probably because of Kebe's habit of creating a chance purely to ruin it himself before anyone else can. And in fairness, Forest had obviously targeted him as a danger man. IIRC he often had 2-3 on him as soon as he got the ball.

It's kind of the same as Harper - Harper has the ball a lot but his end product is often zero which is why it annoys me when he gets praise as he ultimately does nothing of any use even though he puts the most in. Harper's better going forward for me - he can't defend and he's technically decent meaning he can pass and shoot on the rare occasion his brain functions well enough to get him to make the right choice.

Anyway, I'd rather have players who produce end product as that's the whole point, meaning I wouldn't play either.

[Royal Rother]

Probably because of Kebe's habit of creating a chance purely to ruin it himself before anyone else can.

I like that. Sums him up rather well.

[Ian Royal]

Think you're wrong about Harper. Harps created a fair few of our goals with excellent distribution setting up counter attacks last season.

And even if you're not wrong, it's kind of unfair making a creative comparison between a defensive midfielder and a winger. It's like saying Karacan was rubbish because he didn't create any chances.