Thames Sports Investment

[Royal Lady]

I'll just say that I thought the TSI set up was identical to the one that tried to buy Everton - except they changed their name obvs - and I thought the Everton bid failed because they couldn't prove where the money was coming from, or indeed, whether the "consortium" actually had any.

[pea]

We're not Real Madrid, we're not Barcelona. We are Reading Football Club, we're not sure who's our owner

[philM]

...and I thought the Everton bid failed because they couldn't prove where the money was coming from, or indeed, whether the "consortium" actually had any.

I'm sure you've said this before and been corrected, but here we go again..

Samuelson has always insisted that was not the case.

The widely accepted story is that after leading the media and the fans on a merry dance for months, it eventually emerged that the whole thing had been a mechanism for forcing Paul Gregg out of Everton; Fortress Sports Fund existed and had the money, but the Board had no intention of selling up.

If you want more info, this is some evidence given to an public enquiry involving an Everton planning application...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subsequently problems emanating in the boardroom of Everton FC came to the fore most dramatically in the summer of 2004 when the newly appointed CEO Trevor Birch mysteriously left the club after just 6 weeks14 whilst the relationship between the Directors appeared to have become strained. This led to attempts by Paul Gregg in July 200415 to seize control of the club by offering to buy out Mr Kenwright’s and Mr Woods’ shareholding for a reported £15m with the offer to invest a further £15m through a rights issue16. Mr Kenwright and Mr Woods declined the offer stating that they wanted to know who was behind the offer and wanted to see proof of funding17. A PR war subsequently ensued with Mr Kenwright initially claiming to have found investment through Anton Zingrevich18 then miraculously through the Fortress Sports Fund investment proposals. These proposals appeared within a few weeks of Mr Gregg going public in his attempts to buy the club and this despite years of Mr Kenwright previously claiming to have been unsuccessfully searching ‘24/7’ for investment. Sadly, the issue with the Fortress Sports Fund was allowed to drag on19 and on20 until eventually most observers had began to realise that the Fortress Sports Funds proposals was just a tactic to prevent Paul Gregg from seizing control of the club. To date, I do not recall any official explanation as to why the proposals failed to materialise.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In summary, Samuelson was used. Kenwright stalled. Incidentally, Gregg's offer was conditional on Kenwright relinquishing control.

If you want to explore it any deeper then the "Public Inquiry into application for: mixed-usedevelopment including a new football stadium, retail,residential and leisure uses on land in KirkbyProof of Evidence of KEIOC CampaignMark Grayson – Everton Football Club Shareholder" is a good starting point.

[Bucks Dave]

Madjeski has said in the past that we have had offers from big talking "entrepreneurs" but that each time the question "Show us the money" is asked the opportunity fades away. It's the first thing the Board looks at. Our history with Madjeski is to occasionally doubt something he says only to find out later he was right all along. He now tells us the Football League is the cause of delays. Sounds right to me.

[ScottishRoyal]

Madjeski has said in the past that we have had offers from big talking "entrepreneurs" but that each time the question "Show us the money" is asked the opportunity fades away. It's the first thing the Board looks at. Our history with Madjeski is to occasionally doubt something he says only to find out later he was right all along. He now tells us the Football League is the cause of delays. Sounds right to me.

Indeed. We have been told that all due diligence has been completed, this will have involved the club's accountants taking a far more detailed investigative approach to the TSI's finances than the FA will ever do. If the deal passed DD then we should be comfortable in the knowledge that the deal is a sound one and that the money is there.

[philM]

Madjeski has said in the past that we have had offers from big talking "entrepreneurs" but that each time the question "Show us the money" is asked the opportunity fades away. It's the first thing the Board looks at. Our history with Madjeski is to occasionally doubt something he says only to find out later he was right all along. He now tells us the Football League is the cause of delays. Sounds right to me.

Indeed. We have been told that all due diligence has been completed, this will have involved the club's accountants taking a far more detailed investigative approach to the TSI's finances than the FA will ever do. If the deal passed DD then we should be comfortable in the knowledge that the deal is a sound one and that the money is there.

Due Diligence is only "officially" done by the purchaser not the seller. The club's accountants will have responded to questions from TSI during the process. I'm sure that RFC will have carried out their own detailed analysis on TSI, but this would usually have been done prior to accepting any offer. The Due Diligence process is solely for the purchaser to check that what they are buying is what it appears to be, ie no hidden liabilities.

[Ian Royal]

Thank you, hadn't seen that as I wasn't in the UK, that was useful.

Perhaps you should have checked for an update then rather than shouting your mouth off in a tantrum. It was mentioned on this very thread afterall.

[FiNeRaIn]

Thank you, hadn't seen that as I wasn't in the UK, that was useful.

Perhaps you should have checked for an update then rather than shouting your mouth off in a tantrum. It was mentioned on this very thread afterall.

Not at all, a respectable poster has PM'd me something very useful which isn't public knowledge or posted on this thread. I absolutely 100% am glad I made my post.

[Ian Royal]

You disagree, Churchy? Without TSI we would have lost McDermott, and that's a fact. There would have been no Jason Roberts, Federici or Kebe in January. The summer would have meant more summer sales to balance the books. When you can't afford to replace quality with quality you ultimately become one of the weaker teams in the league. Just my opinion, but don't let the good times we're enjoying (because of TSI's investment) cloud your opinion of where we were as a club financially without their investment.

Is it really a fact that we would have been without any McDermott, Federici, Kebe or Roberts in Janaury? The Wolves job was still a hugely posioned chalice. People would still have had to actually bid for Federici and Kebe for them to have left... the summer in Kebe's case, at least, would have been an entirely different matter as he'd have been out of contract.

Trying to say what would have happened in another scenario that has never existed is not a "fact".

[Friday's Legacy]

You disagree, Churchy? Without TSI we would have lost McDermott, and that's a fact. There would have been no Jason Roberts, Federici or Kebe in January. The summer would have meant more summer sales to balance the books. When you can't afford to replace quality with quality you ultimately become one of the weaker teams in the league. Just my opinion, but don't let the good times we're enjoying (because of TSI's investment) cloud your opinion of where we were as a club financially without their investment.

Is it really a fact that we would have been without any McDermott, Federici, Kebe or Roberts in Janaury? The Wolves job was still a hugely posioned chalice. People would still have had to actually bid for Federici and Kebe for them to have left... the summer in Kebe's case, at least, would have been an entirely different matter as he'd have been out of contract.

Trying to say what would have happened in another scenario that has never existed is not a "fact".

We asked Federici to wait until the summer before we would consider any bids for him. He wanted to go in Jan but then TSI came in and everything changed. Kebe was also very close to leaving in Jan. Again, TSI's timing was impeccable. Do you really believe McDermott would have stayed here knowing more players would have to be sold in the summer and he would again have to use a tight budget and youngsters to keep us going, only for the following summer to see more have to go? There's an element of pissing in the wind there - pardon my french! He might love this club but he is also ambitious and owes Reading nothing. He has given us ten plus years of hard graft and would have been right to take the Wolves job had he wanted it, and under financial constraints he were under pre-TSI, it would be hard to see McDermott staying. Also, re Jason Roberts not being here: McDermott was quoted as saying that move would not have happened without the investment of TSI. We couldn't have done it without them, so no, he wouldn't be here now without their financial backing.

[Royal Lady]

...and I thought the Everton bid failed because they couldn't prove where the money was coming from, or indeed, whether the "consortium" actually had any.

I'm sure you've said this before and been corrected, but here we go again..

Samuelson has always insisted that was not the case.

The widely accepted story is that after leading the media and the fans on a merry dance for months, it eventually emerged that the whole thing had been a mechanism for forcing Paul Gregg out of Everton; Fortress Sports Fund existed and had the money, but the Board had no intention of selling up.

If you want more info, this is some evidence given to an public enquiry involving an Everton planning application...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subsequently problems emanating in the boardroom of Everton FC came to the fore most dramatically in the summer of 2004 when the newly appointed CEO Trevor Birch mysteriously left the club after just 6 weeks14 whilst the relationship between the Directors appeared to have become strained. This led to attempts by Paul Gregg in July 200415 to seize control of the club by offering to buy out Mr Kenwright’s and Mr Woods’ shareholding for a reported £15m with the offer to invest a further £15m through a rights issue16. Mr Kenwright and Mr Woods declined the offer stating that they wanted to know who was behind the offer and wanted to see proof of funding17. A PR war subsequently ensued with Mr Kenwright initially claiming to have found investment through Anton Zingrevich18 then miraculously through the Fortress Sports Fund investment proposals. These proposals appeared within a few weeks of Mr Gregg going public in his attempts to buy the club and this despite years of Mr Kenwright previously claiming to have been unsuccessfully searching ‘24/7’ for investment. Sadly, the issue with the Fortress Sports Fund was allowed to drag on19 and on20 until eventually most observers had began to realise that the Fortress Sports Funds proposals was just a tactic to prevent Paul Gregg from seizing control of the club. To date, I do not recall any official explanation as to why the proposals failed to materialise.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In summary, Samuelson was used. Kenwright stalled. Incidentally, Gregg's offer was conditional on Kenwright relinquishing control.

If you want to explore it any deeper then the "Public Inquiry into application for: mixed-usedevelopment including a new football stadium, retail,residential and leisure uses on land in KirkbyProof of Evidence of KEIOC CampaignMark Grayson – Everton Football Club Shareholder" is a good starting point.

Cheers - I'll stick to listening to what my informant tells me about the FA and its questions for the consortium though...

[winchester_royal]

It's the FL holding this up not the FA...

[Rex]

Hopefully crushing questions about Pizza toppings, remote controls and the more pressing LowerwestJnr conundrums.

[RoyalBlue]

Madjeski has said in the past that we have had offers from big talking "entrepreneurs" but that each time the question "Show us the money" is asked the opportunity fades away. It's the first thing the Board looks at. Our history with Madjeski is to occasionally doubt something he says only to find out later he was right all along. He now tells us the Football League is the cause of delays. Sounds right to me.

Indeed. We have been told that all due diligence has been completed, this will have involved the club's accountants taking a far more detailed investigative approach to the TSI's finances than the FA will ever do. If the deal passed DD then we should be comfortable in the knowledge that the deal is a sound one and that the money is there.

Due Diligence is only "officially" done by the purchaser not the seller. The club's accountants will have responded to questions from TSI during the process. I'm sure that RFC will have carried out their own detailed analysis on TSI, but this would usually have been done prior to accepting any offer. The Due Diligence process is solely for the purchaser to check that what they are buying is what it appears to be, ie no hidden liabilities.

Having been closely involved in three company sale and purchases, I can confirm that is correct. I imagine it will have been the club's accountants and/ lawyers/sale side advisor responding to the questions from TSI and providing additional information/documentation as required.

[postwhisperer]

It's the FL holding this up not the FA...

sounds a bit dodgy, waiting to get into the PL so the FL cant investigate them... SMELLS VERY FISHY BUYER BEWARE

[bigmike]

It's the FL holding this up not the FA...

sounds a bit dodgy, waiting to get into the PL so the FL cant investigate them... SMELLS VERY FISHY BUYER BEWARE

Almost as dodgy as your current fishing attempt

[HoneyRoastHoax]

To be fair it can take months to complete on a one bed flat. I can't see any problem with it taking this long to buy a football club

[Ian Royal]

You disagree, Churchy? Without TSI we would have lost McDermott, and that's a fact. There would have been no Jason Roberts, Federici or Kebe in January. The summer would have meant more summer sales to balance the books. When you can't afford to replace quality with quality you ultimately become one of the weaker teams in the league. Just my opinion, but don't let the good times we're enjoying (because of TSI's investment) cloud your opinion of where we were as a club financially without their investment.

Is it really a fact that we would have been without any McDermott, Federici, Kebe or Roberts in Janaury? The Wolves job was still a hugely posioned chalice. People would still have had to actually bid for Federici and Kebe for them to have left... the summer in Kebe's case, at least, would have been an entirely different matter as he'd have been out of contract.

Trying to say what would have happened in another scenario that has never existed is not a "fact".

We asked Federici to wait until the summer before we would consider any bids for him. He wanted to go in Jan but then TSI came in and everything changed. Kebe was also very close to leaving in Jan. Again, TSI's timing was impeccable. Do you really believe McDermott would have stayed here knowing more players would have to be sold in the summer and he would again have to use a tight budget and youngsters to keep us going, only for the following summer to see more have to go? There's an element of pissing in the wind there - pardon my french! He might love this club but he is also ambitious and owes Reading nothing. He has given us ten plus years of hard graft and would have been right to take the Wolves job had he wanted it, and under financial constraints he were under pre-TSI, it would be hard to see McDermott staying. Also, re Jason Roberts not being here: McDermott was quoted as saying that move would not have happened without the investment of TSI. We couldn't have done it without them, so no, he wouldn't be here now without their financial backing.

I find it doubtful he'd have gone to Wolves on the terms reportedly offered. A different Prem club? Off like a shot probably. As I said, it's mainly speculation and not at all a fact that he'd have gone, Jimmy'd have gone AND Fed'd have gone.

It's teh word "fact" that I take issue with, not the likely accuracy of any speculation.

[Royal Rother]

NONE of this is fact. It's all based on rumour, bullshit, guesswork and a tiny bit of knowledge. A heady but, as we have seen many many times over the years, unreliable cocktail.

[Ian Royal]

NONE of this is fact. It's all based on rumour, bullshit, guesswork and a tiny bit of knowledge. A heady but, as we have seen many many times over the years, unreliable cocktail.

That's why I was taking issue with a post saying it was fact. Keep up dear boy.