Brian: The right decision?

[Zana Badawi]

Percentage football has it's limitations yes, and the fashion is to love away from it as the game evolves and so should the tactics you employ, but, having said that, if McDermott had made his limited style of football work, as Pulis did at Stoke, then he wouldn't have got the sack.

Of course, goes without saying.

If only the signings had been better, eh. McCleary & particularly Gunter performed poorly in terms of higher-end value signings. BMc & Hammond take the wrap for that. And then in January we spent (IIRC) £300k on Akpan and a little south of £1 million on Blackman. Absymal signings, but does AZ really expect us to believe in hinting that we had more resource available ("we should have done more in the transfer market" - his shifty and immortal words when unveiling Adkins) that the manager somehow chose to go for bargain-basement crap instead? I somehow think that AZ had given up the ghost a little by January tbh and you can understand why to an extent given how far adrift we were.

Bottom line is: signings weren't good enough. But neither was the budget sufficient. Stoke meanwhile invested heavily to get to their level of comfortable survival.....includings, ironically, several million on Kitson and Sonko....

It was either one end or the other.
Ridiculously hopeful or opportunistic signings (Blackman or Akpan) or spurious (and maybe even dubious) punts on the likes of Ince and Siggurdson, FFS.

Surely there is somebody in the middle.

The thing is, I honestly don't think anything has changed - so really how much does the manager, any manager, have his hands tied in the market? Discussing transfer records when answering "Brian: The right decision?" is a grey area for me. I agree with what you are saying, though. Its more than one man's decision. I would throw in NH as well as AZ as culpable.

[Avon Royal]

at this thread.

Some of you lot need to get a grip. I'm pretty sure the start to this season has been better than any we had under McDermott.

[AthleticoSpizz]

:lol: at this thread.

Some of you lot need to get a grip. I'm pretty sure the start to this season has been better than any we had under McDermott.

but its the finish that counts.

LOL at the thread all you want.

[Avon Royal]

So why not wait until the finish before whinging like a bunch of tarts?

[AthleticoSpizz]

Who's whingeing?

Some interesting posts by some interesting posters (and some dullards...present company excepted, of course!).

By Team Board standards, a pretty decent thread tbf

[SPARTA]

Leeds 6th
Reading 8th

If Leeds finish in the play offs and Reading don't manage to get into the top 6, then:

(a) LOL
(b) Adkins should be sacked

What a ridiculous comment. He hasn't had the investment he was promised, and the ownership situation will almost certainly effect the players to some extent. Adkins hasn't exactly got the best set up right now! You are one of the first to remind people that we won promotion two seasons ago with a very average squad. That very same average squad was added to with some very average and below average new signings, and Adkins is trying to work with what he's got. I'm also sure I've seen you comment on managers not getting enough time any more...

[Avon Royal]

By Team Board standards, a pretty decent thread tbf

That says more about the other Team Board threads than it does about this one!

[Uke]

Brian is no more though

This is why!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adzkOv0vvDI

[Hoop Blah]

I think the issue many people have is not with Adkins himself per se (although the bloke makes it very difficult to warm to him really with endless psychobabble) but the snobbery from some regarding the percentage football we played before. Sure, it wasn't successful for us in the Premier League but a club like Stoke has made it work for many years now at that level.

We've had the previous regime summed up as 'panic and hit & hope' football on the page before. We 'panicked and hit and hoped' our way to a play off final and a championship and some of our very best FA Cup results since the 2nd world war. And now the failings of the current turgid football which is creating so few chances from open play is being blamed on 'McDermott's old boys' looking 'very uncomfortable with the ball at their feet'. Seems to me that the Adkins apologists are the ones who are expert at goalpost manoeuvre

Percentage football has it's limitations yes, and the fashion is to love away from it as the game evolves and so should the tactics you employ, but, having said that, if McDermott had made his limited style of football work, as Pulis did at Stoke, then he wouldn't have got the sack.

His limited style was too limited and his deployment of his resources too ineffectual so he paid the price after being given more than a fair crack of the whip.

Fair crack of the whip? With virtually feck all money to spend? Do me a favour.

All quite debatable but McDermott was part of the decision to largely stick with what we had over the summer and constantly said he was happy with what he had. He had an owner who was obviously looking to play a bit of fantasy football with his new toy (pretty sure McDermott came out and said he'd rejected a list of Zingaravich suggested signings) and bought in some supposedly Premier League standard players of his own.

He didn't get the best out of what he had. I don't think any player played to their potential that season and a lot of clubs would've made a change way before we did.

That's getting a fair crack of the whip within the constraints of the budgets the club works to.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

[sandman]

Reminds me of Ross McCormack.

[Bandini]

Leeds 6th
Reading 8th

If Leeds finish in the play offs and Reading don't manage to get into the top 6, then:

(a) LOL
(b) Adkins should be sacked

What a ridiculous comment.

'greed. Adkins should be sacked wherever we finish.

[Once were Biscuitmen]

It very much depends on how the takeover story plays out.

If Anton can't persuade daddy to cough up some cash then we will be back to living within our means and flogging the odd prospect to balance the books.

With that scenario Brian has proved he can deliver effective- if not stylish- championship football by making the best of the kind of average championship players that we would have to live with.

If the takeover goes through and Nige is given more cash to turn into Saints mk2.....

If, if, if.

[Extended-Phenotype]

I think the issue many people have is not with Adkins himself per se (although the bloke makes it very difficult to warm to him really with endless psychobabble) but the snobbery from some regarding the percentage football we played before. Sure, it wasn't successful for us in the Premier League but a club like Stoke has made it work for many years now at that level.

We've had the previous regime summed up as 'panic and hit & hope' football on the page before. We 'panicked and hit and hoped' our way to a play off final and a championship and some of our very best FA Cup results since the 2nd world war. And now the failings of the current turgid football which is creating so few chances from open play is being blamed on 'McDermott's old boys' looking 'very uncomfortable with the ball at their feet'. Seems to me that the Adkins apologists are the ones who are expert at goalpost manoeuvre

Seems completely illogical to discredit a decision made at a point in time previous to information unobtainable at that time, i.e. the future. Hence, using information in advance of the event of Brian's sacking, e.g. McD's success or Adkins failure, is a weak tool for attacking the decision - unless of course the criticism was aimed at the club's crystal ball or time machine. In the absence of either of those, it seems fair to apply the maxim: hindsight is a wonderful thing.

As for passing football vs direct football, I think the concern is more with what type of football will help us compete better in the Premier League. Direct didn't work. Barcelona football is not really what we are likely to be aiming for. More confidence on the ball, keeping possession better, having more of a range to our passing, trying to break through teams while in command of the ball rather than reducing the last third to 50/50's - it's just about learning a stronger game of football.

It's not really about making it look nice and passing it around for an eternity.

What you really don't grasp is that a team that is assembled for around £10m will get hammered very time against a team that spends hundreds of millions of pounds if that team attempts to outpass the more expensive, and therefore superior-skilled, side. It's so obvious I can't believe it needs saying. We had no choice but to play counter-attacking football with the squad of limited players we had in the PL. 2 plus 2 = 4. Every time.

No, I do understand that - but I think in order to compete you need to do more than rely on counter-attacking football. As last season showed, just playing direct because you are the underdog doesn't work. Sometimes you have to give your players more credit and broaden your game a little more to take these teams on and get yourself in the game more.

[Extended-Phenotype]

If Leeds finish in the play offs and Reading don't manage to get into the top 6, then:

(a) LOL
(b) Adkins should be sacked

Why would you afford Brian more grace than Adkins? It's this about this thread I can't understand - the uproar at Brian's premature sacking going hand in hand with demanding the same treatment of a new manager who had nothing to do with Brian's departure.

You either think managers deserve a chance or you don't?

[floyd__streete]

the uproar at Brian's premature sacking going hand in hand with demanding the same treatment of a new manager who had nothing to do with Brian's departure.

In the interests of (un)fairness

Brian was sacked as the job he was doing wasn't deemed good enough therefore we brought in someone who was deemed to be a more suitable candidate. If said candidate cannot match Brian's achievement of a play off place in his first full season then he will have failed and should be sacked.

[Extended-Phenotype]

the uproar at Brian's premature sacking going hand in hand with demanding the same treatment of a new manager who had nothing to do with Brian's departure.

In the interests of (un)fairness

Brian was sacked as the job he was doing wasn't deemed good enough therefore we brought in someone who was deemed to be a more suitable candidate. If said candidate cannot match Brian's achievement of a play off place in his first full season then he will have failed and should be sacked.

Ok. But I'd probably afford the new guy more time as he is trying to implement a new style of football to better prepare the club for future promotion.

The fact it isn't working yet doesn't register as a failure to me.

In fact, I was fairly confident Leeds would finish above us this season and that we might be work in progress for another term yet. I happily accept that on the optimistic premise that, when we do go up we would be more likely to survive than Leeds or indeed ourselves had we stuck with Brian.

Its all speculation though, I appreciate that.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Just to add; I'm also of the belief that while the results and performances haven't been great, we are keeping the ball better. Sure, this hasn't meant more goals yet but adding one or two flair players to a side which retains possession would be a pretty effective strategy to coping with a higher level of football.

[maffff]

I agree.

[Pandoras Box]

Brian was sacked as the job he was doing wasn't deemed good enough therefore we brought in someone who was deemed to be a more suitable candidate

Surely McD was sacked because the invisible man could see next year's tasty Prem football treasures slowly slipping out of sight week by week which he desperately needed in order to pay SJM for the shares?
He took a last roll of the dice - booted McD out and tried to appoint a new messiah who could either keep us up with a few wins from a different style or else his betting slip would be thrown in the bin and he would vanish from the betting shop. Rings true?