Failure to buy a striker

[Ian Royal]

So we were playing a 4-4-2 system but the strikers were shit at it? Yeah that's a good indication that we'll be good at 4-4-2!

[brendywendy]

It wasn't especially funny the first time Slammed. You really need a sense of humour transplant.

Snowball - we've played 4-4-2 in the last three or four games. It hasn't been a roaring success has it!

I missed this weekend's game but I don't think we've been playing an out and out 4-4-2 up to then at least.

Don't know about Coventry, but Leeds for example, when were Hunt and Long within shouting distance of each other?

They play like they are trying to remember HOW TO PLAY 4-4-2

nhunt was definitely playing "in the hole" whatever that means- judging by his performance it may mean "down a hole"

[Snowball]

That's what I thought. They don't seem to working as a pair, as far as I have seen at least.

Maybe the answer is to revert for X games to raw, pure 4-4-2 and tell the 2 strikers
to stay central and let the wingers bomb balls in. THEN we'll see goals

[brendywendy]

we were scoring pretty freely before the last two 0-0 games.
but also conceding pretty freely

[Hoop Blah]

Totally agree on the 05/06 team being the result of a lot of work over the previous few seasons. I've said many a time how it was a team built by Pardew and taken on to that level by Coppell (who I think stumbled across the winning mix to an extent). All the time that side was being built we were improving though, and that's all I ask for my club, to look like they're at least trying to improve if not actually doing it.

yes, but the thing is, expecting us to continue to improve afterf relegation is asking a tad much.

its about stabilisation. then back to improvements later

It's not like we've just been relegated though is it.

[SLAMMED]

It wasn't especially funny the first time Slammed. You really need a sense of humour transplant.

Says you

[westendgirl]

It's not like we've just been relegated though is it.

But on 5Live tonight talking about Gary Speed they said Sheff Utd is in a transition phase as they have lost their parachute payment and lost £18m last season and they were relegated a year before us. So maybe the time to cope with relegation is more than a couple of years - if you think about quite a few teams relegated from the Prem stayed in the Championship for a few years and then dropped to League 1. Leeds , Norwich, Charlton, Forest and Leicester come to mind

[Ian Royal]

It wasn't especially funny the first time Slammed. You really need a sense of humour transplant.

Says you

Did you not know I'm with the humour police? You're being let off with a warning.... this time.

[SLAMMED]

Won't happen again ma'am

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

It's not like we've just been relegated though is it.

But on 5Live tonight talking about Gary Speed they said Sheff Utd is in a transition phase as they have lost their parachute payment and lost £18m last season and they were relegated a year before us. So maybe the time to cope with relegation is more than a couple of years - if you think about quite a few teams relegated from the Prem stayed in the Championship for a few years and then dropped to League 1. Leeds , Norwich, Charlton, Forest and Leicester come to mind

Perhaps the time to change is on relegation, proper contracts with relegation clauses in them, ALA RFC, and cut immediately, rather than have a couple of years spending money, that guarantees nothing better than what other teams without the money have. Burnley had less money than us in 08/09, yet our overpaid lot bottled it, knowing they could leave if they failed

[Snowball]

So we were playing a 4-4-2 system but the strikers were shit at it? Yeah that's a good indication that we'll be good at 4-4-2!

We were a 4-4-2 side and started to change to 4-5-1/4-3-3 under Rodgers. Long could barely get a kick.

We played a lot of the same under McDermott and he started to play Long. This coincided with our change in fortunes. (Check out when Long started to get serious minutes on the pitch and when we started to win games.)

We have been playing mostly 451/433 with Long isolated, working his socks off and a poor return in goals (4 in 19)

But even when we have played 2 or 3 strikers at the same time, we haven't had the front two properly paired up, working closely as a unit. We seem to be playing 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1 with a striker in the hole.

It isn't just Long missing chances. Hunt is missing chances (a glorious one v Leeds, ditto v Coventry), Karacan has missed two free shots, one an open goal, one with no keeper to beat. Church has run around looking lost.

Like it or not, we knew how Coppell's sides would play. There's a much more "random" feel about our team this year.

What's our centre-back partnership?
What's our midfield partnership?
What's our striking partnership?

[Hoop Blah]

It's not like we've just been relegated though is it.

But on 5Live tonight talking about Gary Speed they said Sheff Utd is in a transition phase as they have lost their parachute payment and lost £18m last season and they were relegated a year before us. So maybe the time to cope with relegation is more than a couple of years - if you think about quite a few teams relegated from the Prem stayed in the Championship for a few years and then dropped to League 1. Leeds , Norwich, Charlton, Forest and Leicester come to mind

They never really seemed to stop spending money though did they?

They finding it hard now, financially, because of that. We kept our Premiership quality players for a season (and not all of them) trying to get back up and then started the rebuilding process. I'm not sure if Sheff Utd ever did that, but then we're well run and have done it the prudent way haven't we?

[brendywendy]

Totally agree on the 05/06 team being the result of a lot of work over the previous few seasons. I've said many a time how it was a team built by Pardew and taken on to that level by Coppell (who I think stumbled across the winning mix to an extent). All the time that side was being built we were improving though, and that's all I ask for my club, to look like they're at least trying to improve if not actually doing it.

yes, but the thing is, expecting us to continue to improve afterf relegation is asking a tad much.

its about stabilisation. then back to improvements later

It's not like we've just been relegated though is it.

as has been stated since i posted- i think you are underestimating the average affect of relegation from the prem.

[Vision]

It's not like we've just been relegated though is it.

But on 5Live tonight talking about Gary Speed they said Sheff Utd is in a transition phase as they have lost their parachute payment and lost £18m last season and they were relegated a year before us. So maybe the time to cope with relegation is more than a couple of years - if you think about quite a few teams relegated from the Prem stayed in the Championship for a few years and then dropped to League 1. Leeds , Norwich, Charlton, Forest and Leicester come to mind

They never really seemed to stop spending money though did they?

They finding it hard now, financially, because of that. We kept our Premiership quality players for a season (and not all of them) trying to get back up and then started the rebuilding process. I'm not sure if Sheff Utd ever did that, but then we're well run and have done it the prudent way haven't we?

The other thing worth bearing in mind with Sheff Uts aside from having among the higher average gates in the division I think they're still collecting extra revenue through compensation from West Ham over the Tevez saga. Cant remember whether it was 5m for 4 years or 4m for 5 years buty it was certainly an extra 20m in revenue that the average relegated club wouldnt get. Even then it didn't stop them from selling their own young crown jewels in Naughton and Walker as soon as a remotely attractive bid came in.

[Hoop Blah]

as has been stated since i posted- i think you are underestimating the average affect of relegation from the prem.

I'm not doubting there is a big effect and a lot of clubs risk a hell of a lot by not taking stock quickly enough.

I do think that once the heart was ripped out of our squad and Rodgers left to pick up the pieces we should, almost immediately, be looking at improving or looking like we're striving to improve though.

If we are this well run outfit we should've had budgets in place for these kind of things and look to improve within those budgets. We may be right in the midst of that now, but I still don't think we're looking like we're doing anything other than making do unfortunately.

That might just be my inaccurate perception of things, or just some blatent managerial mistakes or gambles that didn't pay off. Either way I think it's a long way off where we have been at various other times where we were struggling.

It brings home how disappointing it was to 'throw-away' our Premiership status by resting on our laurels.

[brendywendy]

as has been stated since i posted- i think you are underestimating the average affect of relegation from the prem.

I'm not doubting there is a big effect and a lot of clubs risk a hell of a lot by not taking stock quickly enough.

I do think that once the heart was ripped out of our squad and Rodgers left to pick up the pieces we should, almost immediately, be looking at improving or looking like we're striving to improve though.

If we are this well run outfit we should've had budgets in place for these kind of things and look to improve within those budgets. We may be right in the midst of that now, but I still don't think we're looking like we're doing anything other than making do unfortunately.

That might just be my inaccurate perception of things, or just some blatent managerial mistakes or gambles that didn't pay off. Either way I think it's a long way off where we have been at various other times where we were struggling.

It brings home how disappointing it was to 'throw-away' our Premiership status by resting on our laurels.

i believe the improvements demanded by madejski have been in the way our academy is run, and the quality fo player it produces.
in the long term its a great plan imo, and is the only way we will be able to build great sides,in a financially prudent way without sugardaddy benefactors.
unfortunately, despite what they say, most fans dont actually want that.

[specialjon]

So far the strikers that where loan on loan deadline day have performed like this:

Jermaine Easter 1 sub appearance 0 goals.

Marcus Tudgay 0 appearances 0 goals.

Rory Fallon 1 appearance and 2 sub appearances 0 goals.

Josh McQuoid 1 appearance and 1 sub appearance 0 goals.

I'm not turning into snowball, but it's interesting when you look at the fact that none of them have scored, admittedly they've had limited matches etc.... But you could say that Brian is right to wait for the right player rather than just getting another body in.

[Svlad Cjelli]

It's not like we've just been relegated though is it.

But on 5Live tonight talking about Gary Speed they said Sheff Utd is in a transition phase as they have lost their parachute payment and lost £18m last season and they were relegated a year before us. So maybe the time to cope with relegation is more than a couple of years - if you think about quite a few teams relegated from the Prem stayed in the Championship for a few years and then dropped to League 1. Leeds , Norwich, Charlton, Forest and Leicester come to mind

They never really seemed to stop spending money though did they?

They finding it hard now, financially, because of that. We kept our Premiership quality players for a season (and not all of them) trying to get back up and then started the rebuilding process. I'm not sure if Sheff Utd ever did that, but then we're well run and have done it the prudent way haven't we?

But we stopped being particularly prudent for one season - the first season after relegation, SC's last, was one where we made a concerted effort to get straight back straight away and in doing so spent far more than just that year's money. That gamble failed, which is why the problems afterwards were so much bigger.

[Hoop Blah]

Agreed Dirk, to an extent at least.

A well run club would've had provision in it's budget for going down and using the parachute payments to cover that gamble over the first season wouldn't it?

Yes revenue dropped, as did costs, so we were told (that magical 40% wage cut) and yet we still had to pick up the pieces some time after. I'm presuming it's because, once taking a wage cut we went and gave them it all back with new contracts around Christmas to keep them for a few more ineffective months.

Like you say, probably a gamble that didn't pay off. I'd argue that, to an extent, that gamble wasn't one well made by a well run club and if we were this example to all that gamble wouldn't have such far reaching impacts.

[Svlad Cjelli]

It's all a question of personal perspective and personal attitude for risk, because I'd say that the gamble was an extremely uncharacteristic one when an otherwise well-run club let its guard down and went for it for a season. It certainly wasn't like them.

But you have to think back to the whole perspective of the time - car-park protests, SC's final attempt to make amends for relegation etc - there was an awful lot of emotion, and SC at the time may have had more power and influence than is strictly good in those circumstances.

The irony, of course, is that we're now in the financial situation we are now because the club precisely what many now are calling for - they threw money at the problem. It just illustrates what happens when you do gamble and it doesn't come off....