Back from the Arsenal game/TV

[melonhead]

No, i just watched the highlights and I am OK now. Lots of positives in a team with 6 changes and on another night it would have all been over in 90 in our favour and there would be none of this hysteria.

.

me too

thought it would be awful watching it, but we actually looked quite good, even in the second half we had chances.


and pretty much half their goals were due to gorkss

[melonhead]

No, i just watched the highlights and I am OK now. Lots of positives in a team with 6 changes and on another night it would have all been over in 90 in our favour and there would be none of this hysteria.

Meanwhile Fergie out! Dreadful capitulation by Utd against Chelsea. No, it seems no-one is calling for his head despite shipping 5 goals and blowing a lead.

But Fergie played a lot of youngsters where as reading played the first team

6 changes

[melonhead]

Another record on wikipedia

League Cup

Most goals by a losing side: Reading (5), Reading F.C. v. Arsenal F.C., 30 October 2012 in their 5-7 defeat

actually a record for either cup

[melonhead]

That's rubbish brendy.

excellent argumant

every game hes played-stoke aside- we have been overrun in the middle. imo

[cmonurz]

That's rubbish brendy.

excellent argumant

every game hes played-stoke aside- we have been overrun in the middle. imo

It’s difficult to make an argument against a statement so obviously false. We have not looked more porous defensively when Guthrie has played, compared to when he hasn’t. That’s a simple fact, there’s no argument to be had.

[10539.4 Miles Away]

No, i just watched the highlights and I am OK now. Lots of positives in a team with 6 changes and on another night it would have all been over in 90 in our favour and there would be none of this hysteria.

Meanwhile Fergie out! Dreadful capitulation by Utd against Chelsea. No, it seems no-one is calling for his head despite shipping 5 goals and blowing a lead.

But Fergie played a lot of youngsters where as reading played the first team

Are game Positive first half shocking second half

Hold on, am I due a whoosh her? I keep hearing we played the first team

V arsenal

01 Federici
02 Gunter
03 Shorey
15 Morrison Booked
17 Gorkss
08 Leigertwood Booked
16 Tabb
19 Robson-Kanu
10 Hunt (Pogrebnyak - 73' )
12 McCleary (McAnuff - 73' )
33 Roberts (Church - 90' )

V Fulham

21 McCarthy
03 Shorey
06 Mariappa
17 Gorkss
24 Cummings Booked
08 Leigertwood
11 McAnuff
14 Kebe (Robson-Kanu - 78' )
16 Tabb (McCleary - 69' )
07 Pogrebnyak (Le Fondre - 80' )
33 Roberts

So that's 5 players who started the previous game, less than half. One of whom (tabb) isn't a regular first teamer

[Mr Angry]

IMHO the problem with playing Guthrie is that Brian believes it can only be in a 4411 or a 451 formation as he clearly wants two defensive central midfielders to give his central defenders cover (whether that plan is working is, of course, a moot point!).

If we play in the 4411 or 451 formation, we cause fewer attacking problems for our opponents, which as well as meaning we have less goal-scoring chances, leads to greater pressure on our midfield and more chances against us (Swansea away anyone??).

I believe our only hope is to keep on with a straight 442, with two attacking wingers, and have a go at teams; this tactic worked for nearly an hour on Tuesday night, but sadly, I'd suggest that for this tactic to work wholly effectively, we need (in key positions) better calibre players than we currently have in order to deliver consistently over the 90+ minutes of a game.

As a result, in my opinion, Guthrie simply isn't the answer at this time.

[Mr Angry]

No, i just watched the highlights and I am OK now. Lots of positives in a team with 6 changes and on another night it would have all been over in 90 in our favour and there would be none of this hysteria.

Meanwhile Fergie out! Dreadful capitulation by Utd against Chelsea. No, it seems no-one is calling for his head despite shipping 5 goals and blowing a lead.

But Fergie played a lot of youngsters where as reading played the first team

Are game Positive first half shocking second half

Hold on, am I due a whoosh her? I keep hearing we played the first team

V arsenal

01 Federici
02 Gunter
03 Shorey
15 Morrison Booked
17 Gorkss
08 Leigertwood Booked
16 Tabb
19 Robson-Kanu
10 Hunt (Pogrebnyak - 73' )
12 McCleary (McAnuff - 73' )
33 Roberts (Church - 90' )

V Fulham

21 McCarthy
03 Shorey
06 Mariappa
17 Gorkss
24 Cummings Booked
08 Leigertwood
11 McAnuff
14 Kebe (Robson-Kanu - 78' )
16 Tabb (McCleary - 69' )
07 Pogrebnyak (Le Fondre - 80' )
33 Roberts

So that's 5 players who started the previous game, less than half. One of whom (tabb) isn't a regular first teamer

The problem with that view is that only 1 of the starting 11 has yet to feature as a starting player in a League game this season.....and what it does do is highlight the lack of genuine Premier league class in our squad at this time.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Hold on, am I due a whoosh her? I keep hearing we played the first team

So that's 5 players who started the previous game, less than half. One of whom (tabb) isn't a regular first teamer

It's just the hair-shirt loving fans we have, who'll typically also dismiss the 5 we scored as some kind of irrelevance in an effort to wreak the largest amount of suffering from the game

[cmonurz]

If we play in the 4411 or 451 formation, we cause fewer attacking problems for our opponents.

We needn't, not with the likes of Kebe and McCleary in the squad. I remember when Pardew brought in the (almost revolutionary, it seemd at the time!) 451/433 formation with Fozzy and Rougier wide and Cureton in the middle, I think Chadwick was in and out of the team too at the time - the formation worked because we were such an attacking force using it.

I'm surprised at the apparent lack of appetite at Reading to play in different styles. We don't have a terrific squad, but it's better than a rigid 442.

[melonhead]

That's rubbish brendy.

excellent argumant

every game hes played-stoke aside- we have been overrun in the middle. imo

It’s difficult to make an argument against a statement so obviously false. We have not looked more porous defensively when Guthrie has played, compared to when he hasn’t. That’s a simple fact, there’s no argument to be had.

i dont want to argue with you, especiually since your argument consists of youre wrong im right the end.
but imo hes the only midfielder to play to make little effort to track back, harry, and tackle
of course the midfield is more porous when he plays.

youre welcome to your opinion too
but dont pretend its rock solid fact

[melonhead]

If we play in the 4411 or 451 formation, we cause fewer attacking problems for our opponents.

We needn't, not with the likes of Kebe and McCleary in the squad. I remember when Pardew brought in the (almost revolutionary, it seemd at the time!) 451/433 formation with Fozzy and Rougier wide and Cureton in the middle, I think Chadwick was in and out of the team too at the time - the formation worked because we were such an attacking force using it.

I'm surprised at the apparent lack of appetite at Reading to play in different styles. We don't have a terrific squad, but it's better than a rigid 442.

except when we have played that formation so far this season

[mr_number]

I'm surprised at the apparent lack of appetite at Reading to play in different styles. We don't have a terrific squad, but it's better than a rigid 442.

As an example, I'd say the first half at Liverpool says it's not better, but I'm sure there are examples each way. Just think having two up front gives us way more in terms of outlets, and opportunities to hold possession more, if we are going to maintain our more direct style of play. 4411 or 451 means that we only have one target man, and since our wide men are often being pushed back this season, the lone striker has had a really hard time.

[cmonurz]

I'm surprised at the apparent lack of appetite at Reading to play in different styles. We don't have a terrific squad, but it's better than a rigid 442.

As an example, I'd say the first half at Liverpool says it's not better, but I'm sure there are examples each way. Just think having two up front gives us way more in terms of outlets, and opportunities to hold possession more, if we are going to maintain our more direct style of play. 4411 or 451 means that we only have one target man, and since our wide men are often being pushed back this season, the lone striker has had a really hard time.

The essence of my argument is that we need to learn to play these styles successfully. That is, really, what the coaches, and McDermott, are employed for.

[Snowball]

It’s difficult to make an argument against a statement so obviously false. We have not looked more porous defensively when Guthrie has played, compared to when he hasn’t. That’s a simple fact, there’s no argument to be had.

Surely that is a statement, not a fact?



Guthrie has started 5 Premiership games and we drew the first, against Stoke, then lost the other 4.


When he hasn't started we are undefeated in the Prem. 2-2, 2-2, 3-3 Newcastle, Swansea, Fulham.

Evidence, surely, that we do better without him? Small sample but a huge difference.




If you include the cup games, it's 5 games undefeated over 90 minutes the team without Guthrie has 3-2 (QPR away), 2-2, 2-2, 3-3, 4-4 (14-13 at the equivalent of 1.4 ppg)

Newcastle, Swansea, Fulham, QPR, Arsenal



and when Guthrie has started 1-1, 2-4, 1-3, 0-1, 0-1, and a 3-2 win versus bottom-of-the-championship Peterboro (and we were dire) (7-9 at the equivalent of ..67 ppg)

Stoke, Chelsea, Spurs, West Brom, Liverpool


UNBEATEN in normal time without him. Four defeats in normal time with him.

[mr_number]

I'm surprised at the apparent lack of appetite at Reading to play in different styles. We don't have a terrific squad, but it's better than a rigid 442.

As an example, I'd say the first half at Liverpool says it's not better, but I'm sure there are examples each way. Just think having two up front gives us way more in terms of outlets, and opportunities to hold possession more, if we are going to maintain our more direct style of play. 4411 or 451 means that we only have one target man, and since our wide men are often being pushed back this season, the lone striker has had a really hard time.

The essence of my argument is that we need to learn to play these styles successfully. That is, really, what the coaches, and McDermott, are employed for.

Well we need to learn to play a style successfully, that much is true. I don't really give a shit which one it is.

[Snowball]

Noel Hunt on radio this morning made a very good point

he said


We don't have the players to slow it down and play "pretty football at the opposition's pace"

THEY want it slowed down, but we are much better at a high tempo and pressing

It's our game. We should play our game and not allow the opposition to make us play slower
which gives them an advantage.

[cmonurz]

The essence of my argument is that we need to learn to play these styles successfully. That is, really, what the coaches, and McDermott, are employed for.

Well we need to learn to play a style successfully, that much is true. I don't really give a shit which one it is.

Styles, was my point.

I don't think our current one will be enough to keep us up.

Snowball, I'm advocating that with our squad of players we develop an ability to play in different formations. As has been discussed to death on here, our issue on Tuesday night was an inability to shut the game down having taken a massive lead.

Re Guthrie, we conceded 10 goals in the 6 league games he started (1.6 a game) and have conceded 7 in 3 (2.3 a game) when he hasn't. Sure, on the small sample of games there appears to be a trade-off, fewer goals conceded and scored, when Guthrie plays.

But that's not really my point, it's about us having a squad and being able to adapt our game as we need to, using their abilities. I don't think telling Guthrie that we play in one style, and that he has to learn it if he wants to play, is the right approach.

[Snowball]

MY point was we lose more often when Guthrie plays (4/5) and are undefeated in normal time when he doesn't.

They are facts

[melonhead]

But that's not really my point, it's about us having a squad and being able to adapt our game as we need to, using their abilities. I don't think telling Guthrie that we play in one style, and that he has to learn it if he wants to play, is the right approach.

hes not good enough to build a style around imo, and your point ignores the fact that wanting a squad thats able to change styles at will =/= having a squad able to change styles at will