Danny Guthrie - Refusing To Travel

[Broxroyal]

This is starting to look and feel a lot like 2007-8 when we went down. Players refusing to play, big signings not feeling that they are getting a chance, blind faith in personnel and systems which aren't working. A feeling that this league, it's personalities and finances are just too much for us.

If you listen to the BBC interview (link posted earlier) McD genuinely sounds sincere, saddened, very emotional and (sadly) out of his depth.

It seems that Guthrie texted to apologise (which suggests that the fault lies with him, but who knows).

The reaction to last night is pivotal. I honestly don't think McD will get the push or walk. He needs to get everyone in a conference room somewhere today (away from Hogwarts), behind closed doors, and thrash out what is going wrong. There are senior players in the team who need to have their say, and clearly some people who need to explain their actions. I would also include some of the "injured" players in there. Clear the air. Regroup. And if necessary tell some characters to get with the program or stay away pending a compromise agreement or January move.

The one thing I felt we would be this season is hard to beat and honest, and that this would make up for a lack of talent. Our work ethic is being undermined by all sorts of issues, which is leaving our lack of talent totally exposed. Whatever factions there are within the team need addressing head on. We can't "move on" from last night's white flag without it.

Very good post ^^^^

Agree with all that. I am not convinced that Brian is the man to hold the thrash out, clear the air session ,however. I really want to give him the benefit of the doubt here because I think he has earned it but I am beginning to think that we need a change. We can't drift any longer, even if it means we have someone like Dolan as caretaker for the rest of the season.

[Ian Royal]

he started more than two games you divot

You said he was making us worse. He was good against Stoke, and arguably MotM at Chelsea. Therefore I assumed your opinion was based on his only other league starts (two).

he played badly in those two games.and was dropped
up to the manager.
and tbf, hed hardly played like maradonna in the other two

And Leigertwood has played badly in about 10. If not 16.

Guthrie's acted like a fukwit, but Brian's utterly inept management this season has sparked it. I'd be more inclined to support McDermott if he'd done anything this season to show any degree of competence.

[melonhead]

People can (quite rightly) question the performances of Guthrie in the first few games.

However compared to the shit being churned out by Leigertwood atm they were like watching the best of Xavi/Viera/Iniesta/Keane all rolled into one.

been injured, still not match fit. was clearly in brians mind to make a change when he was fit

[melonhead]

Do you think he really said "my head's not right?" - like Federici was really "injured"?

If he did say it, isn't that a brave thing to do? Shouldn't McD have investigated the reasons why he felt his head "wasn't right" - rather than just telling the media what an awful bloke he was?

Two sides to every story, but I doubt Guthrie will be allowed to give his.

yeah, hed have been much better off not saying anything to the media and leave them thinking hed just dropped him again for no reason

[melonhead]

Where and how has Brian told the media (i.e. the World) what an awful bloke Guthrie is, RL? I imagine that anything Brian has to say to Guthrie will be said in private.

told BBRB after the game that guthrie had said his head wasnt right, and that youd have to speak to guthrie to find out what that meant. also said danny had texted him to apologise(again) on monday night.

but tbf the rumour was already all over twitter, and the media before the game, so he had no choice imo

[melonhead]

hes become better with every game he hasnt played


in their deperation to look to blame it all on brian, suddenly alex pearce and danny guthrie have become maldini and maradona

Yep. But McD is doing a bad job this season Brenders.

has made mistakes. signing guthrie is apparently one of them.

but with the season how its gone, hes just been searching for ways to fix things that re unfixable with what weve got, so mistakes are bound to be made.

and you could shuffle this pack of cards as much as you want, the fact remains its just not a good enough pack.
its one of those cheap decks, that gets all bent up and creased as soon as you use it.


tbf weve played some great stuff going forward, and nearly had some great results against some very good teams that may well have turned it all around.
but a weak squad, not enough quality brought in due to not enough money spent, and injuries, have contributed to what is a spectacular decline.

yes he has to take his share of the blame, especialy in terms of tactics, and some of his substitutions which have been naive and poor on numerous occasions
but with 5 million quid, imo theres nothing he could have done more to try and turn this squad into premiere league survivors.

and if i was manager id have done exactly the same with guthrie from the very start right up to today

[melonhead]

he's the only player I can pin my hopes on because he can PASS a ball

Oh here we go again! I seem to remember after some of his matches earlier people were moaning their guts out about how he ONLY PASSED THE BALL TO THE OPPONENTS all the oxf*rd time!

The little turd isn't as good as you lot try to make him out to be, he isn't the new Paul Merson/Gary McAllister/Gazza/Gullit, he is a distinctly average player of quite limited ability.

Unfair assessment from both of you. Hasn't been given a chance.

he started games we lost
he came off the bench. we lost
he was replaced, we stopped losing.


what you do in that situation is getyour head down, work hard, prove yourself, and once your back in th eteam, make sure youre undroppable
what you dont do is everything he has done

[The Prisoner]

This is starting to look and feel a lot like 2007-8 when we went down. Players refusing to play, big signings not feeling that they are getting a chance, blind faith in personnel and systems which aren't working. A feeling that this league, it's personalities and finances are just too much for us.

If you listen to the BBC interview (link posted earlier) McD genuinely sounds sincere, saddened, very emotional and (sadly) out of his depth.

It seems that Guthrie texted to apologise (which suggests that the fault lies with him, but who knows).

The reaction to last night is pivotal. I honestly don't think McD will get the push or walk. He needs to get everyone in a conference room somewhere today (away from Hogwarts), behind closed doors, and thrash out what is going wrong. There are senior players in the team who need to have their say, and clearly some people who need to explain their actions. I would also include some of the "injured" players in there. Clear the air. Regroup. And if necessary tell some characters to get with the program or stay away pending a compromise agreement or January move.

The one thing I felt we would be this season is hard to beat and honest, and that this would make up for a lack of talent. Our work ethic is being undermined by all sorts of issues, which is leaving our lack of talent totally exposed. Whatever factions there are within the team need addressing head on. We can't "move on" from last night's white flag without it.

Very good post ^^^^

Agree with all that. I am not convinced that Brian is the man to hold the thrash out, clear the air session ,however. I really want to give him the benefit of the doubt here because I think he has earned it but I am beginning to think that we need a change. We can't drift any longer, even if it means we have someone like Dolan as caretaker for the rest of the season.

Brian has previous here - a year or so ago when we had a similar run of poor form everyone was summoned for a behind closed doors clear-the-air sort of a meeting and we did get results. I also remember him banging on about making a player unhappy at Slough and realising he needed to work with him rather than alienate. I wonder how last night's admission over Guthrie sits with that ethos, because like it or lump it we only have the players at our disposal for the next few games at least and he needs to step back, possibly swallow a bit of pride and work out how to get the improvement we need.

We don't know DG's side of the story. We probably never will, but the fact that he texted Brian an apology suggests he is in the wrong. Guthrie (and the others who have issues and/or are "injured") need these issues resolved as well, because without the fight being restored the EPL has a squad no better than an upper table Championship side squatting in 19th and it ain't going to get better.

[melonhead]

You said he was making us worse. He was good against Stoke, and arguably MotM at Chelsea. Therefore I assumed your opinion was based on his only other league starts (two).

he played badly in those two games.and was dropped
up to the manager.
and tbf, hed hardly played like maradonna in the other two

And Leigertwood has played badly in about 10. If not 16.

Guthrie's acted like a fukwit, but Brian's utterly inept management this season has sparked it. I'd be more inclined to support McDermott if he'd done anything this season to show any degree of competence.

what like, taking us from the bottom of the championship to almost a play off spot in one season
getting to a play off final in the next
and winning the championship the one after that?
while losing his best players every year?



ledge has had a few very bad games, but has been undroppable only due to no other options. as soon as the other option is approaching fitness again he blows it by acting like a twat

[Elm Park Pasty]

To be honest I think we have a number of issues going on here, and it shouldn't be just isolated to what Danny Guthrie chose to do last night instead of warming the bench. You can blame the hierachy for not spending enough cash in the summer, you can blame the players for not putting in a full shift when it is required, and you can blame individual players like Guthrie for rocking the boat but you cannot ignore that some of the blame should come Brian's way. There seems to be an issue with the handling of players with strong characters (and there could be another 'injury' on the horizon for Jason Roberts) that basically means they get dropped if they show any sort of disagreement with BMc's way. Given the paucity of our squad, the senior players who have played in the Premier League should be leaned on for thoughts and opinions, even if you do nothing with them. I would even go as far to make one captain, someone who shouts a lot and leads from the front, someone who doesn't disappear in matches (Hallo Jobi!). The bruhaha earlier in the season about Federici's 'injury' certainly plants an element of doubt in the mind about any player now having an 'injury' when they played days before, hence the raised eyebrows about Guthrie's injury and now Roberts'. His constant reference to being nearly there when we so obviously aren't does his credibility no good at all. Finally, we got told he got the players he wanted (and he was applauded as being our chief scout) so how did we end up with two players in Guthrie and Pog who are so unsuited to our system? You can't say they are poor PL players because Fulham wanted Pog and Guthrie was offered a new contract by NUFC and had other offers. We are tactically naive. It is clearly apparent that, possibly excepting Kebe when fit and McCleary, our wingers are not really cutting it so why continue the system? Yes, we have only certain players but why not adjust the way we play even a small bit? Even with a midfield 5 we still want to play the same ineffective wingers in a similar system. I would like to see the squad have a huge clear the air session out of sight, where everyone can have their say. I don't really want BMc to go but I seriously believe he needs someone more experienced on board to whisper in his ear at times when things are at their hottest. I would also keep Guthrie. Petulant he may be but at the moment he's only one that can pass that round thing that apparently this game is about.

[Yorkshire Royal]

The biggest mistake Brian made was signing this egotistical idiot in the first place. He must have known he had a billy big bollox attitude, but signed him anyway.

Not great all round then considering we have the worst centre midfield in premiership history.

[bracksroyal10]

Granted his twitter rant was out of order however ....

The whole situation has came to bite Mcd back in the arse it was clear and obvious for everyone to see we needed a player like him on a Southampton. The guy relocated from Newcastle to come all the way down here to try and get regular football for his career to no avail. Thats like you and I relocating that far for a new job only to be the teaboy of the office how do you expect him to feel? Given the current shambolic centre midfield performances of Legs you would expect him to get a look in.

He probably got more game time off the bench for Newcastle and could of easily joined another club instead of us. How do you think the guy feels? Clearly looking at the midfield pairing it lacks creativity and the most importantly the final ball its a joke Mcdermott needs to start thinking more about the club than holding this stupid grudge. No wonder Guthrie didn't travel to Sunderland he should of been played against the likes of Villa and Soton who were there for the taking quite easily.

Never mind the fact I got a home shirt with Guthrie 20 and the sleeve badges for £56 odd quid .... what a purchase that is turning out to be.

Mcdermott out and a written apology from him to me accompanied with £56 worth of megastore vouchers.

[RoyalBlue]

Very good post ^^^^

Agree with all that. I am not convinced that Brian is the man to hold the thrash out, clear the air session ,however. I really want to give him the benefit of the doubt here because I think he has earned it but I am beginning to think that we need a change. We can't drift any longer, even if it means we have someone like Dolan as caretaker for the rest of the season.

Brian has previous here - a year or so ago when we had a similar run of poor form everyone was summoned for a behind closed doors clear-the-air sort of a meeting and we did get results. I also remember him banging on about making a player unhappy at Slough and realising he needed to work with him rather than alienate. I wonder how last night's admission over Guthrie sits with that ethos, because like it or lump it we only have the players at our disposal for the next few games at least and he needs to step back, possibly swallow a bit of pride and work out how to get the improvement we need.

We don't know DG's side of the story. We probably never will, but the fact that he texted Brian an apology suggests he is in the wrong. Guthrie (and the others who have issues and/or are "injured") need these issues resolved as well, because without the fight being restored the EPL has a squad no better than an upper table Championship side squatting in 19th and it ain't going to get better.

When people are genuinely trying to resolve issues, build bridges or whatever, the wise amongst them aren't scared of offering an apology (even if they aren't in the wrong or the sole person to blame) in order to get the ball rolling and make some progress. So I wouldn't automatically assume Guthrie is completely in the wrong.

In the business world I inhabit, we always hold managers accountable for poor performing employees/employee issues and expect them to work hard to resolve those issues. There is always a greater onus on managers than employees to achieve a satisfactory resolution. It's what managers are paid for. Based on what we have heard/seen of the Guthrie saga, I don't believe McDermott has done a particularly good job of managing this 'problem' and certainly isn't without blame for the situation we find ourselves in.

[winchester_royal]

People can (quite rightly) question the performances of Guthrie in the first few games.

However compared to the shit being churned out by Leigertwood atm they were like watching the best of Xavi/Viera/Iniesta/Keane all rolled into one.

been injured, still not match fit. was clearly in brians mind to make a change when he was fit

Oh give over

If Guthrie was genuinely not fit to start a game then he wouldn't be having a strop at not being picked.

[Extended-Phenotype]

1. Don't think his twitter 'outburst' was anything to get worked up about, why apologise? Really don't see what he said wrong.

"I am bitterly disappointed not to play, I am trying to fit into the direct style of play the manager wants. I pass too much at the moment, which is my biggest asset. I understand what the manager wants but stopping habits like going and getting the ball from the back four is difficult."

2. I'd give up too, if my team had been hit with an injury crisis while on a losing streak created by something I was the antidote for, and I STILL couldn't get in the f/cking team.

Bored. Of. This.

[melonhead]

People can (quite rightly) question the performances of Guthrie in the first few games.

However compared to the shit being churned out by Leigertwood atm they were like watching the best of Xavi/Viera/Iniesta/Keane all rolled into one.

been injured, still not match fit. was clearly in brians mind to make a change when he was fit

Oh give over

If Guthrie was genuinely not fit to start a game then he wouldn't be having a strop at not being picked.

imo its the difference between a player thinking hes fit to start, and brian thinking a player who hasnt played anything apart from 45 mins in a reserve game isnt quite ready to start, so needs mins off th ebench

[melonhead]

1. Don't think his twitter 'outburst' was anything to get worked up about, why apologise? Really don't see what he said wrong.

"I am bitterly disappointed not to play, I am trying to fit into the direct style of play the manager wants. I pass too much at the moment, which is my biggest asset. I understand what the manager wants but stopping habits like going and getting the ball from the back four is difficult."

2. I'd give up too, if my team had been hit with an injury crisis while on a losing streak created by something I was the antidote for, and I STILL couldn't get in the f/cking team.

Bored. Of. This.

actually agree on the twitter thing
though it was a slight criticism of the gaffer i wouldnt have said there is owt wrong with what was said

[Royalclapper]

The way I see it is that Guthrie is obviously being a tart.

However, Brian McD has not yet earned the right to start playing the football Messiah. The reason managers like Sir Alex Ferguson can drop players and sell them if they don't like it is because he's dam well earned the right to do it and has a thoroughbred track record to back it up.

Top managers have got their hands dirty at clubs a hell of a lot smaller than Reading and shown their mettle. I'm afraid Brian, a play-off and a championship promotion just isn't enough to give you that right yet. The last few away games have been an absolute joke, and I couldn't care less how small the budget was, he had some money, the players were out there, and the team is shyte. No manager worth his salt would watch 3 games like that and still think they're above some criticism. You've not earned that untouchable status for me yet Mr McD.

[Elm Park Pasty]

Fined two weeks wages according to Sky.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

hes become better with every game he hasnt played


in their deperation to look to blame it all on brian, suddenly alex pearce and danny guthrie have become maldini and maradona

Yep. But McD is doing a bad job this season Brenders.

has made mistakes. signing guthrie is apparently one of them.

but with the season how its gone, hes just been searching for ways to fix things that re unfixable with what weve got, so mistakes are bound to be made.

and you could shuffle this pack of cards as much as you want, the fact remains its just not a good enough pack.
its one of those cheap decks, that gets all bent up and creased as soon as you use it.


tbf weve played some great stuff going forward, and nearly had some great results against some very good teams that may well have turned it all around.
but a weak squad, not enough quality brought in due to not enough money spent, and injuries, have contributed to what is a spectacular decline.

yes he has to take his share of the blame, especialy in terms of tactics, and some of his substitutions which have been naive and poor on numerous occasions
but with 5 million quid, imo theres nothing he could have done more to try and turn this squad into premiere league survivors.

and if i was manager id have done exactly the same with guthrie from the very start right up to today

^^^
A-fukkin-men to all of that