Building for next season

[Snowflake Royal]

The things I think we miss, more than anything (and there is a lot) is a ball winning midfielder who is disciplined. Do we have anyone in the youth sides who could be this player?! Evans, Edwards and Kelly are not it, nor is Joey. Bacuna might be it, I just wouldn't trust him yet.

Wasn't that what Kuhl was supposed to be?

No, not really.

Controversially, the three players I'd target most for moving on would be Moore, Barrow and Swift. That's not to say that they haven't got quality or that there aren't players I'd far rather never see in a Reading shirt again, but because I think a) Moore's surely off anyway and b) the other two are deeply flawed luxuries who could fetch a good price and fund some more balanced squad building.

Aluko couldn't possibly be as terrible again and I fear we're stuck with him whatever. Given our utter dearth of talent and the fact I can't see anyone wanting to pay for him or him being willing to lose his cushy job Gunter is probably not worth trying to dump. I can't see us getting significant money for anyone other than the three above - maybe Bacuna or Ilori.

[Hound]

Would really rather keep Barrow. A step above most in this league, exciting to watch and actually seems to really give a toss. Keep him please

Can understand the logic behind Moore and Swift though

Would keep Ilori if possible. Potentially a very good player. Keep Obita and Bod coz I like them both.

Really struggle to be bothered by many of the others tbh.

[Snowball]

In all of the kerfuffle currently ongoing
the most remarkable thing is how quickly
(and easily?) Clement refound the very good
footballer lurking inside Ilori

[Denver Royal]

In all of the kerfuffle currently ongoing
the most remarkable thing is how quickly
(and easily?) Clement refound the very good
footballer lurking inside Ilori

That's the most remarkable thing? Hmmm. Anyway, Ilori has shown improvement under Clement thus far, agreed. So has Moore.

(Kelly and Barrow haven't, imo)

Ilori isn't really my ideal CB in the Champ, at either end of the pitch. But hey, that's just me. I know he has fans. Hope he continues to go from strength to strength.

Snowy (or anyone else), do you see us in the playoff final next season? If not, why not?

[Denver Royal]

.

[Snowball]

do you see us in the playoff final next season? If not, why not?

No, because I expect us to be Champions







(of League 1)

[Double d v2]

In all of the kerfuffle currently ongoing
the most remarkable thing is how quickly
(and easily?) Clement refound the very good
footballer lurking inside Ilori

That's the most remarkable thing? Hmmm. Anyway, Ilori has shown improvement under Clement thus far, agreed. So has Moore.

(Kelly and Barrow haven't, imo)

Ilori isn't really my ideal CB in the Champ, at either end of the pitch. But hey, that's just me. I know he has fans. Hope he continues to go from strength to strength.

Snowy (or anyone else), do you see us in the playoff final next season? If not, why not?

What do you see the most remarkable thing?

And now at this rate we will not be in the po final. Don't be ridiculous. The 3 teams going down are (probably if they keep most their players) much better then the 3 that will go down. Then you have you higher midtable teams (where we really should be imho) Brentford, Preston, millwall, Norwich etc who are much better then us. Then the top 7 teams.

Why does it matter if we get into the po final? Is that how you will judge him as a success?

[Snowball]

In order to make the finals of the Championship PO's

We will need a striker who can get 25 goals or two 15-20 goal strikers.
We need, power, strength, aggression, speed, hardness, the sort you get
from a non-stop, take the knocks forward line, my personal favourite(s)
being the Long-Hunt partnership.

I like Bodvarrson, but for us to be challenging the top two and making the top
six (not merely challenging), Bod would be 3rd or 4th striker, not a regular starter.


We need that same toughness, hardness, experience, ball-WINNING ability in
midfield. My favourite example of that would be Elwood (Leigertwood) and (IMO)
we need a "buzzer", like Karacan at his best or Steve Quinn.

We are so easily outplayed in midfield. We are soft, lightweight. Kelly is OK if he has
two players do the speed-work, the kicking, the HARD tackling. He does win ball when
on form, but just not enough, not regularly enough. He also has this peculiar "lack of urgency"
about him (most obvious when he walks towards the corner flag at about one mile an hour.
That is AWFUL body-language and he genuinely wastes a few minutes per game.

Kelly AT HIS BEST is decent, but he has played most of this year as if he's carrying an injury
or is seriously unfit or has a medical problem (I'm serious). He hasn't buzzed (to the best of
my memory) all season. Yes he's made a few passes, scored a few goals, got a toe in, but
nothing like enough to be an automatic choice.

Swift looked to be a player that was going to improve and improve, but whether it be between the ears
or fitness, health, injuries, he has rarely looked worthy of a place in midfield. Phrase it differently. If this season's
form was all you knew of these players (sat at Norwich or Forest or QPR) would you want to sign them for
a serious push at the play-offs? No way.

Maybe it's just fitness and they are fundamentally knackered. MAYBE a summer regime and an extra week's
fitness training, a harder, much harder pre-season, and many of the players might look 100% better.

I don't know.

BACUNA, if he can be taught positional discipline, could be our Williams replacement. When I first saw
him I thought he was a BIG step up from Williams (who I always thought flattered to deceive). I think,
well-coached, he could be an excellent player, and with his ball control, relative hardness, hard running
he OUGHT TO BE one of the first names on the team-sheet.

The worry with him is whether he can be consistent enough for Stam-Clement types who seem
to want safety, discipline and consistency over flair.

All three can ON THEIR DAY be very good indeed, but they have to have "on their day" days at
least 30 times a season (and be OK for the other 16 games) if we are to have a good season.

IMO we need a classy, aggressive, experienced midfielder/captain/leader, a Mr Reliable, a bit scary
for opponents AND team-mates... a Roy Keane type. And I guess that wouldn't be cheap.

So we already are saying three expensive buys unless we can find another Elwood.

Personally, although I'm Welsh and I like Gunter the bloke, I DON'T like him as a full-back.
I think he's negative, un-brave and always looks for the safest option. I don't mean safe for the team,
I mean safe for him. He hardly ever takes a player on, doesn't get anything like enough tackles in
on wingers, lets too many crosses come over. I would rather see a hard man in that position.

I think if we stay up and are top-half, Ilori, if he's a regular, will get better and better. He has a pedigree,
has the ball skills to break out, and just needs coaching to minimise errors. Being a regular will help
him mentally. I also wonder if he might make a very, very good deep midfielder.

Moore is the CB equivalent of a shot-stopper goalkeeper. He can get his head in, get a tackle or a block in,
but doesn't seem to organise a defence, doesn't seem to me to make the tackle unnecessary very often.

The back four hasn't played as a unit for quite a while, and he's is the one regular player.

I'd be happier if we had a big aggressive CB (like Morrison). Moore would look great alongside one,]\as would Ilori.
But I think both Ilori and Moore (and A N OTHER) should be fine once the manager gets a pre-season to work on them.

McShane may go. There were signs earlier in the season that suggested he was over the hill. I like the bloke
and he might come back and do a job, but I can't believe he'd be good enough as first choice CB in a side
aiming for the top six.

Mannone is "OK" but I feel he's a very good back-up keeper, again not someone I'd imagine
as clear regular first choice in a top six team. I very much doubt, though, that we'd be looking
to buy a keeper clearly better than Mannone, but Al-Habsi, Feds, McCarthy, and before that Hahnemann (sp?)
inspired more confidence. "OK" isn't enough for top six.

Left back? Hmmm. Obita at his best is better than OK, but we have no idea how he will be when he comes back.
Omar Richards has promise, but there's no way (IMO) he could be first-choice for a top-six season in 2018-19,
so I just don't know at LB, another reason why we will keep Gunter.

But 2019-20 we could have Watson and Richards as the fullbacks. That could be very good!

I think, this squad is better than 19th, but has played way below par this season. Whether they can write this season off and get their heads right for next year, I dunno. If they could I would expect a top-half finish from THIS SQUAD.

But more likely we need to at least partly break things up to bring back belief and lose the losing habit.

BUT, if I'm right and we had two decent strikers (or one great one), a really good hard ball-winning midfielder, a mentally-strong right back (and Obita is OK for LB), a big nasty CB who scores from corners, and a talismanic shot-stopper, yes, then we'd have a side that could be aiming for top six.

Or we go down and bounce back and re-learn that winning feeling

[Snowball]

Barrow is a keeper for me. (cue dumb goalkeeper jokes)

Aluko? He has had a bad season. given, but there is a good player in there.

As it stands, I wish we hadn't splashed out on him, but we did, so I'm just hoping
he can refine the form that made him a 4-7 millions pound player

[Hound]

In all of the kerfuffle currently ongoing
the most remarkable thing is how quickly
(and easily?) Clement refound the very good
footballer lurking inside Ilori

That's the most remarkable thing? Hmmm. Anyway, Ilori has shown improvement under Clement thus far, agreed. So has Moore.

(Kelly and Barrow haven't, imo)

Ilori isn't really my ideal CB in the Champ, at either end of the pitch. But hey, that's just me. I know he has fans. Hope he continues to go from strength to strength.

Snowy (or anyone else), do you see us in the playoff final next season? If not, why not?

Stam obviously didn’t have a huge amount of faith in ilori and his confidence went. In the dying days of the Stam era he was a nervous error prone liability. Looks like some kind words and being given very specific instructions to keep it simple and defend has done the job

Along with Barrow and at a push Bod, was the only one to come out of Saturday with their head held up

Can’t see us having a great year next year tbh. Never know with the champ though - obvs Stam did an incredible job in his first year to turn us round when we were at a similarly low ebb. Need a good start

I worry the team are just used to losing now. It’s become too much of a habit for too many of our players

[Snowflake Royal]

Would really rather keep Barrow. A step above most in this league, exciting to watch and actually seems to really give a toss. Keep him please

Can understand the logic behind Moore and Swift though

Would keep Ilori if possible. Potentially a very good player. Keep Obita and Bod coz I like them both.

Really struggle to be bothered by many of the others tbh.

The problem with Barrow is he goes missing a lot and is a defensive liability so your left back is constantly exposed. I don't think we can afford that.

Give me a lesser player who at least has a clue defensively. Maybe we can train defending into him like Kebe got better, but I've not seen any sign it's possible. And like I say, we could easily get £3m+ for him.

I don't dislike him or want him gone, I just think he's a symptom of our unbalanced squad and letting him go might be one step back two steps forward.

[Snowball]

Can’t see us having a great year next year tbh. Never know with the champ though - obvs Stam did an incredible job in his first year to turn us round when we were at a similarly low ebb. Need a good start

Can somebody remind me what it was like the season before Stam?

I must've been at 30-32 games and I know where we finished
but I don't remember thinking we were ABJECT like now...

[Snowflake Royal]

In order to make the finals of the Championship PO's

We will need a striker who can get 25 goals or two 15-20 goal strikers.
We need, power, strength, aggression, speed, hardness, the sort you get
from a non-stop, take the knocks forward line, my personal favourite(s)
being the Long-Hunt partnership.

I like Bodvarrson, but for us to be challenging the top two and making the top
six (not merely challenging), Bod would be 3rd or 4th striker, not a regular starter.


We need that same toughness, hardness, experience, ball-WINNING ability in
midfield. My favourite example of that would be Elwood (Leigertwood) and (IMO)
we need a "buzzer", like Karacan at his best or Steve Quinn.

We are so easily outplayed in midfield. We are soft, lightweight. Kelly is OK if he has
two players do the speed-work, the kicking, the HARD tackling. He does win ball when
on form, but just not enough, not regularly enough. He also has this peculiar "lack of urgency"
about him (most obvious when he walks towards the corner flag at about one mile an hour.
That is AWFUL body-language and he genuinely wastes a few minutes per game.

Kelly AT HIS BEST is decent, but he has played most of this year as if he's carrying an injury
or is seriously unfit or has a medical problem (I'm serious). He hasn't buzzed (to the best of
my memory) all season. Yes he's made a few passes, scored a few goals, got a toe in, but
nothing like enough to be an automatic choice.

Swift looked to be a player that was going to improve and improve, but whether it be between the ears
or fitness, health, injuries, he has rarely looked worthy of a place in midfield. Phrase it differently. If this season's
form was all you knew of these players (sat at Norwich or Forest or QPR) would you want to sign them for
a serious push at the play-offs? No way.

Maybe it's just fitness and they are fundamentally knackered. MAYBE a summer regime and an extra week's
fitness training, a harder, much harder pre-season, and many of the players might look 100% better.

I don't know.

BACUNA, if he can be taught positional discipline, could be our Williams replacement. When I first saw
him I thought he was a BIG step up from Williams (who I always thought flattered to deceive). I think,
well-coached, he could be an excellent player, and with his ball control, relative hardness, hard running
he OUGHT TO BE one of the first names on the team-sheet.

The worry with him is whether he can be consistent enough for Stam-Clement types who seem
to want safety, discipline and consistency over flair.

All three can ON THEIR DAY be very good indeed, but they have to have "on their day" days at
least 30 times a season (and be OK for the other 16 games) if we are to have a good season.

IMO we need a classy, aggressive, experienced midfielder/captain/leader, a Mr Reliable, a bit scary
for opponents AND team-mates... a Roy Keane type. And I guess that wouldn't be cheap.

So we already are saying three expensive buys unless we can find another Elwood.

Personally, although I'm Welsh and I like Gunter the bloke, I DON'T like him as a full-back.
I think he's negative, un-brave and always looks for the safest option. I don't mean safe for the team,
I mean safe for him. He hardly ever takes a player on, doesn't get anything like enough tackles in
on wingers, lets too many crosses come over. I would rather see a hard man in that position.

I think if we stay up and are top-half, Ilori, if he's a regular, will get better and better. He has a pedigree,
has the ball skills to break out, and just needs coaching to minimise errors. Being a regular will help
him mentally. I also wonder if he might make a very, very good deep midfielder.

Moore is the CB equivalent of a shot-stopper goalkeeper. He can get his head in, get a tackle or a block in,
but doesn't seem to organise a defence, doesn't seem to me to make the tackle unnecessary very often.

The back four hasn't played as a unit for quite a while, and he's is the one regular player.

I'd be happier if we had a big aggressive CB (like Morrison). Moore would look great alongside one,]\as would Ilori.
But I think both Ilori and Moore (and A N OTHER) should be fine once the manager gets a pre-season to work on them.

McShane may go. There were signs earlier in the season that suggested he was over the hill. I like the bloke
and he might come back and do a job, but I can't believe he'd be good enough as first choice CB in a side
aiming for the top six.

Mannone is "OK" but I feel he's a very good back-up keeper, again not someone I'd imagine
as clear regular first choice in a top six team. I very much doubt, though, that we'd be looking
to buy a keeper clearly better than Mannone, but Al-Habsi, Feds, McCarthy, and before that Hahnemann (sp?)
inspired more confidence. "OK" isn't enough for top six.

Left back? Hmmm. Obita at his best is better than OK, but we have no idea how he will be when he comes back.
Omar Richards has promise, but there's no way (IMO) he could be first-choice for a top-six season in 2018-19,
so I just don't know at LB, another reason why we will keep Gunter.

But 2019-20 we could have Watson and Richards as the fullbacks. That could be very good!

I think, this squad is better than 19th, but has played way below par this season. Whether they can write this season off and get their heads right for next year, I dunno. If they could I would expect a top-half finish from THIS SQUAD.

But more likely we need to at least partly break things up to bring back belief and lose the losing habit.

BUT, if I'm right and we had two decent strikers (or one great one), a really good hard ball-winning midfielder, a mentally-strong right back (and Obita is OK for LB), a big nasty CB who scores from corners, and a talismanic shot-stopper, yes, then we'd have a side that could be aiming for top six.

Or we go down and bounce back and re-learn that winning feeling

Tell me snowball of the four play off finals we've been in and six play offs in total, not to mention two titles, how many times did we have 2 strikers on 15+ or one on 25+?

It's about 50/50 isn't it?

Hardly a requirement.

[Double d v2]

In order to make the finals of the Championship PO's

We will need a striker who can get 25 goals or two 15-20 goal strikers.
We need, power, strength, aggression, speed, hardness, the sort you get
from a non-stop, take the knocks forward line, my personal favourite(s)
being the Long-Hunt partnership.

I like Bodvarrson, but for us to be challenging the top two and making the top
six (not merely challenging), Bod would be 3rd or 4th striker, not a regular starter.


We need that same toughness, hardness, experience, ball-WINNING ability in
midfield. My favourite example of that would be Elwood (Leigertwood) and (IMO)
we need a "buzzer", like Karacan at his best or Steve Quinn.

We are so easily outplayed in midfield. We are soft, lightweight. Kelly is OK if he has
two players do the speed-work, the kicking, the HARD tackling. He does win ball when
on form, but just not enough, not regularly enough. He also has this peculiar "lack of urgency"
about him (most obvious when he walks towards the corner flag at about one mile an hour.
That is AWFUL body-language and he genuinely wastes a few minutes per game.

Kelly AT HIS BEST is decent, but he has played most of this year as if he's carrying an injury
or is seriously unfit or has a medical problem (I'm serious). He hasn't buzzed (to the best of
my memory) all season. Yes he's made a few passes, scored a few goals, got a toe in, but
nothing like enough to be an automatic choice.

Swift looked to be a player that was going to improve and improve, but whether it be between the ears
or fitness, health, injuries, he has rarely looked worthy of a place in midfield. Phrase it differently. If this season's
form was all you knew of these players (sat at Norwich or Forest or QPR) would you want to sign them for
a serious push at the play-offs? No way.

Maybe it's just fitness and they are fundamentally knackered. MAYBE a summer regime and an extra week's
fitness training, a harder, much harder pre-season, and many of the players might look 100% better.

I don't know.

BACUNA, if he can be taught positional discipline, could be our Williams replacement. When I first saw
him I thought he was a BIG step up from Williams (who I always thought flattered to deceive). I think,
well-coached, he could be an excellent player, and with his ball control, relative hardness, hard running
he OUGHT TO BE one of the first names on the team-sheet.

The worry with him is whether he can be consistent enough for Stam-Clement types who seem
to want safety, discipline and consistency over flair.

All three can ON THEIR DAY be very good indeed, but they have to have "on their day" days at
least 30 times a season (and be OK for the other 16 games) if we are to have a good season.

IMO we need a classy, aggressive, experienced midfielder/captain/leader, a Mr Reliable, a bit scary
for opponents AND team-mates... a Roy Keane type. And I guess that wouldn't be cheap.

So we already are saying three expensive buys unless we can find another Elwood.

Personally, although I'm Welsh and I like Gunter the bloke, I DON'T like him as a full-back.
I think he's negative, un-brave and always looks for the safest option. I don't mean safe for the team,
I mean safe for him. He hardly ever takes a player on, doesn't get anything like enough tackles in
on wingers, lets too many crosses come over. I would rather see a hard man in that position.

I think if we stay up and are top-half, Ilori, if he's a regular, will get better and better. He has a pedigree,
has the ball skills to break out, and just needs coaching to minimise errors. Being a regular will help
him mentally. I also wonder if he might make a very, very good deep midfielder.

Moore is the CB equivalent of a shot-stopper goalkeeper. He can get his head in, get a tackle or a block in,
but doesn't seem to organise a defence, doesn't seem to me to make the tackle unnecessary very often.

The back four hasn't played as a unit for quite a while, and he's is the one regular player.

I'd be happier if we had a big aggressive CB (like Morrison). Moore would look great alongside one,]\as would Ilori.
But I think both Ilori and Moore (and A N OTHER) should be fine once the manager gets a pre-season to work on them.

McShane may go. There were signs earlier in the season that suggested he was over the hill. I like the bloke
and he might come back and do a job, but I can't believe he'd be good enough as first choice CB in a side
aiming for the top six.

Mannone is "OK" but I feel he's a very good back-up keeper, again not someone I'd imagine
as clear regular first choice in a top six team. I very much doubt, though, that we'd be looking
to buy a keeper clearly better than Mannone, but Al-Habsi, Feds, McCarthy, and before that Hahnemann (sp?)
inspired more confidence. "OK" isn't enough for top six.

Left back? Hmmm. Obita at his best is better than OK, but we have no idea how he will be when he comes back.
Omar Richards has promise, but there's no way (IMO) he could be first-choice for a top-six season in 2018-19,
so I just don't know at LB, another reason why we will keep Gunter.

But 2019-20 we could have Watson and Richards as the fullbacks. That could be very good!

I think, this squad is better than 19th, but has played way below par this season. Whether they can write this season off and get their heads right for next year, I dunno. If they could I would expect a top-half finish from THIS SQUAD.

But more likely we need to at least partly break things up to bring back belief and lose the losing habit.

BUT, if I'm right and we had two decent strikers (or one great one), a really good hard ball-winning midfielder, a mentally-strong right back (and Obita is OK for LB), a big nasty CB who scores from corners, and a talismanic shot-stopper, yes, then we'd have a side that could be aiming for top six.

Or we go down and bounce back and re-learn that winning feeling

What a great post!

I think that we need another keeper who will challenge Mannone for 1st choice. Not a backup keeper.

We need 2 strikers.

We need a new RB.

We need a bone crunching CM who will sweep up, and then start play.

We need good backups and subs bench. We do not have that.

We need a pacey striker.

We need a RW and LW who can also defend,

We need leaders and discipline.

[Double d v2]

In order to make the finals of the Championship PO's

We will need a striker who can get 25 goals or two 15-20 goal strikers.
We need, power, strength, aggression, speed, hardness, the sort you get
from a non-stop, take the knocks forward line, my personal favourite(s)
being the Long-Hunt partnership.

I like Bodvarrson, but for us to be challenging the top two and making the top
six (not merely challenging), Bod would be 3rd or 4th striker, not a regular starter.


We need that same toughness, hardness, experience, ball-WINNING ability in
midfield. My favourite example of that would be Elwood (Leigertwood) and (IMO)
we need a "buzzer", like Karacan at his best or Steve Quinn.

We are so easily outplayed in midfield. We are soft, lightweight. Kelly is OK if he has
two players do the speed-work, the kicking, the HARD tackling. He does win ball when
on form, but just not enough, not regularly enough. He also has this peculiar "lack of urgency"
about him (most obvious when he walks towards the corner flag at about one mile an hour.
That is AWFUL body-language and he genuinely wastes a few minutes per game.

Kelly AT HIS BEST is decent, but he has played most of this year as if he's carrying an injury
or is seriously unfit or has a medical problem (I'm serious). He hasn't buzzed (to the best of
my memory) all season. Yes he's made a few passes, scored a few goals, got a toe in, but
nothing like enough to be an automatic choice.

Swift looked to be a player that was going to improve and improve, but whether it be between the ears
or fitness, health, injuries, he has rarely looked worthy of a place in midfield. Phrase it differently. If this season's
form was all you knew of these players (sat at Norwich or Forest or QPR) would you want to sign them for
a serious push at the play-offs? No way.

Maybe it's just fitness and they are fundamentally knackered. MAYBE a summer regime and an extra week's
fitness training, a harder, much harder pre-season, and many of the players might look 100% better.

I don't know.

BACUNA, if he can be taught positional discipline, could be our Williams replacement. When I first saw
him I thought he was a BIG step up from Williams (who I always thought flattered to deceive). I think,
well-coached, he could be an excellent player, and with his ball control, relative hardness, hard running
he OUGHT TO BE one of the first names on the team-sheet.

The worry with him is whether he can be consistent enough for Stam-Clement types who seem
to want safety, discipline and consistency over flair.

All three can ON THEIR DAY be very good indeed, but they have to have "on their day" days at
least 30 times a season (and be OK for the other 16 games) if we are to have a good season.

IMO we need a classy, aggressive, experienced midfielder/captain/leader, a Mr Reliable, a bit scary
for opponents AND team-mates... a Roy Keane type. And I guess that wouldn't be cheap.

So we already are saying three expensive buys unless we can find another Elwood.

Personally, although I'm Welsh and I like Gunter the bloke, I DON'T like him as a full-back.
I think he's negative, un-brave and always looks for the safest option. I don't mean safe for the team,
I mean safe for him. He hardly ever takes a player on, doesn't get anything like enough tackles in
on wingers, lets too many crosses come over. I would rather see a hard man in that position.

I think if we stay up and are top-half, Ilori, if he's a regular, will get better and better. He has a pedigree,
has the ball skills to break out, and just needs coaching to minimise errors. Being a regular will help
him mentally. I also wonder if he might make a very, very good deep midfielder.

Moore is the CB equivalent of a shot-stopper goalkeeper. He can get his head in, get a tackle or a block in,
but doesn't seem to organise a defence, doesn't seem to me to make the tackle unnecessary very often.

The back four hasn't played as a unit for quite a while, and he's is the one regular player.

I'd be happier if we had a big aggressive CB (like Morrison). Moore would look great alongside one,]\as would Ilori.
But I think both Ilori and Moore (and A N OTHER) should be fine once the manager gets a pre-season to work on them.

McShane may go. There were signs earlier in the season that suggested he was over the hill. I like the bloke
and he might come back and do a job, but I can't believe he'd be good enough as first choice CB in a side
aiming for the top six.

Mannone is "OK" but I feel he's a very good back-up keeper, again not someone I'd imagine
as clear regular first choice in a top six team. I very much doubt, though, that we'd be looking
to buy a keeper clearly better than Mannone, but Al-Habsi, Feds, McCarthy, and before that Hahnemann (sp?)
inspired more confidence. "OK" isn't enough for top six.

Left back? Hmmm. Obita at his best is better than OK, but we have no idea how he will be when he comes back.
Omar Richards has promise, but there's no way (IMO) he could be first-choice for a top-six season in 2018-19,
so I just don't know at LB, another reason why we will keep Gunter.

But 2019-20 we could have Watson and Richards as the fullbacks. That could be very good!

I think, this squad is better than 19th, but has played way below par this season. Whether they can write this season off and get their heads right for next year, I dunno. If they could I would expect a top-half finish from THIS SQUAD.

But more likely we need to at least partly break things up to bring back belief and lose the losing habit.

BUT, if I'm right and we had two decent strikers (or one great one), a really good hard ball-winning midfielder, a mentally-strong right back (and Obita is OK for LB), a big nasty CB who scores from corners, and a talismanic shot-stopper, yes, then we'd have a side that could be aiming for top six.

Or we go down and bounce back and re-learn that winning feeling

Tell me snowball of the four play off finals we've been in and six play offs in total, not to mention two titles, how many times did we have 2 strikers on 15+ or one on 25+?

It's about 50/50 isn't it?

Hardly a requirement.

Correct Ian, It is not a requirement. IF the rest of your team step up.

If they do not step up and you do not have a goalscorer in your team, you get into a situation like this.

Football is about winning, and to win you need goals.

[Snowball]

Can’t see us having a great year next year tbh. Never know with the champ though - obvs Stam did an incredible job in his first year to turn us round when we were at a similarly low ebb. Need a good start

Can somebody remind me what it was like the season before Stam?

I must've been at 30-32 games and I know where we finished
but I don't remember thinking we were ABJECT like now...

Partly answering my own question, a GD of -7 for that season is almost "mid-table"

This season we have already shipped 11 more goals (might be 16 after Cardiff)
and scored 4 less. We've lost 2 more games, won 3 less (with a game to go)

So yes, our position wasn't great at the end, but subjectively it wasn't quite as dire as this year

17 Reading 46 13 13 20 52 59 −07 52 - 2015/16
19 Reading 45 10 13 22 48 70 -22 43 - 2017/18

Just as an aside, with 3 games to go in the season we came third, we still had a negative goal difference (-1). We then won 3-1, 1-0 and 4-2 to finish with a GD of +4

[Hound]

15/16 we started quite nicely under Clarke, hence a decent number of points. But the second half of the season wasn't much better than this. Different in that you could see half the team genuinely not giving a toss as they knew they were leaving, and it obvs caused some disharmony

Think we lost 6 of the last 7 and were pretty woeful by the end

I think the main difference for me is we ended the season with a very small squad on short contracts, so was easy enough to fill the gaps. This season we've got a big bloated squad to try to manage down

[Forty]

Here's part of the coaching team, now available.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43961178

Would build great bridges with fans too.

[Henley Royal 1]

In order to make the finals of the Championship PO's

We will need a striker who can get 25 goals or two 15-20 goal strikers.
We need, power, strength, aggression, speed, hardness, the sort you get
from a non-stop, take the knocks forward line, my personal favourite(s)
being the Long-Hunt partnership.

I like Bodvarrson, but for us to be challenging the top two and making the top
six (not merely challenging), Bod would be 3rd or 4th striker, not a regular starter.


We need that same toughness, hardness, experience, ball-WINNING ability in
midfield. My favourite example of that would be Elwood (Leigertwood) and (IMO)
we need a "buzzer", like Karacan at his best or Steve Quinn.

We are so easily outplayed in midfield. We are soft, lightweight. Kelly is OK if he has
two players do the speed-work, the kicking, the HARD tackling. He does win ball when
on form, but just not enough, not regularly enough. He also has this peculiar "lack of urgency"
about him (most obvious when he walks towards the corner flag at about one mile an hour.
That is AWFUL body-language and he genuinely wastes a few minutes per game.

Kelly AT HIS BEST is decent, but he has played most of this year as if he's carrying an injury
or is seriously unfit or has a medical problem (I'm serious). He hasn't buzzed (to the best of
my memory) all season. Yes he's made a few passes, scored a few goals, got a toe in, but
nothing like enough to be an automatic choice.

Swift looked to be a player that was going to improve and improve, but whether it be between the ears
or fitness, health, injuries, he has rarely looked worthy of a place in midfield. Phrase it differently. If this season's
form was all you knew of these players (sat at Norwich or Forest or QPR) would you want to sign them for
a serious push at the play-offs? No way.

Maybe it's just fitness and they are fundamentally knackered. MAYBE a summer regime and an extra week's
fitness training, a harder, much harder pre-season, and many of the players might look 100% better.

I don't know.

BACUNA, if he can be taught positional discipline, could be our Williams replacement. When I first saw
him I thought he was a BIG step up from Williams (who I always thought flattered to deceive). I think,
well-coached, he could be an excellent player, and with his ball control, relative hardness, hard running
he OUGHT TO BE one of the first names on the team-sheet.

The worry with him is whether he can be consistent enough for Stam-Clement types who seem
to want safety, discipline and consistency over flair.

All three can ON THEIR DAY be very good indeed, but they have to have "on their day" days at
least 30 times a season (and be OK for the other 16 games) if we are to have a good season.

IMO we need a classy, aggressive, experienced midfielder/captain/leader, a Mr Reliable, a bit scary
for opponents AND team-mates... a Roy Keane type. And I guess that wouldn't be cheap.

So we already are saying three expensive buys unless we can find another Elwood.

Personally, although I'm Welsh and I like Gunter the bloke, I DON'T like him as a full-back.
I think he's negative, un-brave and always looks for the safest option. I don't mean safe for the team,
I mean safe for him. He hardly ever takes a player on, doesn't get anything like enough tackles in
on wingers, lets too many crosses come over. I would rather see a hard man in that position.

I think if we stay up and are top-half, Ilori, if he's a regular, will get better and better. He has a pedigree,
has the ball skills to break out, and just needs coaching to minimise errors. Being a regular will help
him mentally. I also wonder if he might make a very, very good deep midfielder.

Moore is the CB equivalent of a shot-stopper goalkeeper. He can get his head in, get a tackle or a block in,
but doesn't seem to organise a defence, doesn't seem to me to make the tackle unnecessary very often.

The back four hasn't played as a unit for quite a while, and he's is the one regular player.

I'd be happier if we had a big aggressive CB (like Morrison). Moore would look great alongside one,]\as would Ilori.
But I think both Ilori and Moore (and A N OTHER) should be fine once the manager gets a pre-season to work on them.

McShane may go. There were signs earlier in the season that suggested he was over the hill. I like the bloke
and he might come back and do a job, but I can't believe he'd be good enough as first choice CB in a side
aiming for the top six.

Mannone is "OK" but I feel he's a very good back-up keeper, again not someone I'd imagine
as clear regular first choice in a top six team. I very much doubt, though, that we'd be looking
to buy a keeper clearly better than Mannone, but Al-Habsi, Feds, McCarthy, and before that Hahnemann (sp?)
inspired more confidence. "OK" isn't enough for top six.

Left back? Hmmm. Obita at his best is better than OK, but we have no idea how he will be when he comes back.
Omar Richards has promise, but there's no way (IMO) he could be first-choice for a top-six season in 2018-19,
so I just don't know at LB, another reason why we will keep Gunter.

But 2019-20 we could have Watson and Richards as the fullbacks. That could be very good!

I think, this squad is better than 19th, but has played way below par this season. Whether they can write this season off and get their heads right for next year, I dunno. If they could I would expect a top-half finish from THIS SQUAD.

But more likely we need to at least partly break things up to bring back belief and lose the losing habit.

BUT, if I'm right and we had two decent strikers (or one great one), a really good hard ball-winning midfielder, a mentally-strong right back (and Obita is OK for LB), a big nasty CB who scores from corners, and a talismanic shot-stopper, yes, then we'd have a side that could be aiming for top six.

Or we go down and bounce back and re-learn that winning feeling

What a great post!

I think that we need another keeper who will challenge Mannone for 1st choice. Not a backup keeper.

We need 2 strikers.

We need a new RB.

We need a bone crunching CM who will sweep up, and then start play.

We need good backups and subs bench. We do not have that.

We need a pacey striker.

We need a RW and LW who can also defend,

We need leaders and discipline.

Absolutely .

[Coppells Lost Coat]

In order to make the finals of the Championship PO's

We will need a striker who can get 25 goals or two 15-20 goal strikers.
We need, power, strength, aggression, speed, hardness, the sort you get
from a non-stop, take the knocks forward line, my personal favourite(s)
being the Long-Hunt partnership.

I like Bodvarrson, but for us to be challenging the top two and making the top
six (not merely challenging), Bod would be 3rd or 4th striker, not a regular starter.


We need that same toughness, hardness, experience, ball-WINNING ability in
midfield. My favourite example of that would be Elwood (Leigertwood) and (IMO)
we need a "buzzer", like Karacan at his best or Steve Quinn.

We are so easily outplayed in midfield. We are soft, lightweight. Kelly is OK if he has
two players do the speed-work, the kicking, the HARD tackling. He does win ball when
on form, but just not enough, not regularly enough. He also has this peculiar "lack of urgency"
about him (most obvious when he walks towards the corner flag at about one mile an hour.
That is AWFUL body-language and he genuinely wastes a few minutes per game.

Kelly AT HIS BEST is decent, but he has played most of this year as if he's carrying an injury
or is seriously unfit or has a medical problem (I'm serious). He hasn't buzzed (to the best of
my memory) all season. Yes he's made a few passes, scored a few goals, got a toe in, but
nothing like enough to be an automatic choice.

Swift looked to be a player that was going to improve and improve, but whether it be between the ears
or fitness, health, injuries, he has rarely looked worthy of a place in midfield. Phrase it differently. If this season's
form was all you knew of these players (sat at Norwich or Forest or QPR) would you want to sign them for
a serious push at the play-offs? No way.

Maybe it's just fitness and they are fundamentally knackered. MAYBE a summer regime and an extra week's
fitness training, a harder, much harder pre-season, and many of the players might look 100% better.

I don't know.

BACUNA, if he can be taught positional discipline, could be our Williams replacement. When I first saw
him I thought he was a BIG step up from Williams (who I always thought flattered to deceive). I think,
well-coached, he could be an excellent player, and with his ball control, relative hardness, hard running
he OUGHT TO BE one of the first names on the team-sheet.

The worry with him is whether he can be consistent enough for Stam-Clement types who seem
to want safety, discipline and consistency over flair.

All three can ON THEIR DAY be very good indeed, but they have to have "on their day" days at
least 30 times a season (and be OK for the other 16 games) if we are to have a good season.

IMO we need a classy, aggressive, experienced midfielder/captain/leader, a Mr Reliable, a bit scary
for opponents AND team-mates... a Roy Keane type. And I guess that wouldn't be cheap.

So we already are saying three expensive buys unless we can find another Elwood.

Personally, although I'm Welsh and I like Gunter the bloke, I DON'T like him as a full-back.
I think he's negative, un-brave and always looks for the safest option. I don't mean safe for the team,
I mean safe for him. He hardly ever takes a player on, doesn't get anything like enough tackles in
on wingers, lets too many crosses come over. I would rather see a hard man in that position.

I think if we stay up and are top-half, Ilori, if he's a regular, will get better and better. He has a pedigree,
has the ball skills to break out, and just needs coaching to minimise errors. Being a regular will help
him mentally. I also wonder if he might make a very, very good deep midfielder.

Moore is the CB equivalent of a shot-stopper goalkeeper. He can get his head in, get a tackle or a block in,
but doesn't seem to organise a defence, doesn't seem to me to make the tackle unnecessary very often.

The back four hasn't played as a unit for quite a while, and he's is the one regular player.

I'd be happier if we had a big aggressive CB (like Morrison). Moore would look great alongside one,]\as would Ilori.
But I think both Ilori and Moore (and A N OTHER) should be fine once the manager gets a pre-season to work on them.

McShane may go. There were signs earlier in the season that suggested he was over the hill. I like the bloke
and he might come back and do a job, but I can't believe he'd be good enough as first choice CB in a side
aiming for the top six.

Mannone is "OK" but I feel he's a very good back-up keeper, again not someone I'd imagine
as clear regular first choice in a top six team. I very much doubt, though, that we'd be looking
to buy a keeper clearly better than Mannone, but Al-Habsi, Feds, McCarthy, and before that Hahnemann (sp?)
inspired more confidence. "OK" isn't enough for top six.

Left back? Hmmm. Obita at his best is better than OK, but we have no idea how he will be when he comes back.
Omar Richards has promise, but there's no way (IMO) he could be first-choice for a top-six season in 2018-19,
so I just don't know at LB, another reason why we will keep Gunter.

But 2019-20 we could have Watson and Richards as the fullbacks. That could be very good!

I think, this squad is better than 19th, but has played way below par this season. Whether they can write this season off and get their heads right for next year, I dunno. If they could I would expect a top-half finish from THIS SQUAD.

But more likely we need to at least partly break things up to bring back belief and lose the losing habit.

BUT, if I'm right and we had two decent strikers (or one great one), a really good hard ball-winning midfielder, a mentally-strong right back (and Obita is OK for LB), a big nasty CB who scores from corners, and a talismanic shot-stopper, yes, then we'd have a side that could be aiming for top six.

Or we go down and bounce back and re-learn that winning feeling

What a great post!

I think that we need another keeper who will challenge Mannone for 1st choice. Not a backup keeper.

We need 2 strikers.

We need a new RB.

We need a bone crunching CM who will sweep up, and then start play.

We need good backups and subs bench. We do not have that.

We need a pacey striker.

We need a RW and LW who can also defend,

We need leaders and discipline.

Absolutely .

A total overhaul should be ruled out, would not surprise me that the compo for Stam would be taken out of our transfer kitty, also our large squad needs to be cut down to enable any real spend. However gaps need to be looked at to avoid anything like this season to happen next year.
A natural CF - very hard to come by with out spaffing the £££
a ball winning CM - the most crucial position to IMO, not technically gifted but can tackle and pass the ball 10 yards quickly - potential captain.
a new CB - think llori and Moore are a decent partnership (recently) but a player like Elphick would bolster our squad/options

Think we should only be buying players who will be in the starting 11 or pushing for starts. NO MORE SQUAD FILLERS!! (unless they are seriously cheap)