Doncaster match thread sponsored by Rugby on in the pub!

[Tails]

Any sensible referee would clearly award a penalty and at most a yellow. He booked Bertrand which was completely unjustified - not a particularly good ref (for us).

[URZZZZZZZZ]

Shocking officiating from all officials really. Not too fussed though!

[Row Z Royal]

Clear-cut penalty, but a harsh red.

[exileinleeds]

Khizanishvilli looked capable. Won't be too dissapointed with him starting Tuesday. Griffin superb again. Chuffed!

That's just showing off

I also thought Zurab looked pretty solid, just hope the handball only warrents a one game ban, rather than three.

I dont fancy his chances of getting a song!

[Franchise FC]

If it's accidental there is an argument it's not even a penalty, let alone a red card.!

it doesn't neeed to be deliberately handled to be handball.

The "deliberate" part concerns the position of the arm - i.e. was his arm in a natural position or had he deliberately positioned his arm? If your arm is out, then even if you are looking in the other direction, it's handball. If your arm is in a natural position and the ball hits it, then even it it prevents a certain goal, it's not handball.

With this one, there didn't look to be anything at all unnatural about his stance, and the ball came straight at him. There would be grounds for saying it's not handball, but he makes so much contact with the ball, dragging it round, that hardly any refs wouldn't give it.

Once given then there's no choice but to give a red card. It was a foul that denied a clear goalscoring opportunity, and therefore a red card. An intention to cheat doesn't come into it.

Extract from law 12 :
handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own
penalty area)
Therefore the ball must be handled deliberately
Sticking your arm out with the intention of making yourself a bigger target is deliberate

[79Royal]

Khizanishvilli looked capable. Won't be too dissapointed with him starting Tuesday. Griffin superb again. Chuffed!

That's just showing off

I also thought Zurab looked pretty solid, just hope the handball only warrents a one game ban, rather than three.

I dont fancy his chances of getting a song!

Kizinashvilli, can we see your willy?

[Platypuss]

Any sensible referee would clearly award a penalty and at most a yellow. He booked Bertrand which was completely unjustified - not a particularly good ref (for us).

Once he's given the handball it has to be a red as the shot was on target. Jeez.

[Plymouth_Royal]

If it's accidental there is an argument it's not even a penalty, let alone a red card.

A penalty was always the most likely outcome of course. But that was no way a red card. It's a toss up whether it was even a yellow ffs!

I agree a red card was harsh but even accidents should be a pen. If a guy falls over and the ball hits his arm stopping the ball going in, accidental and a pen. In Mills' case, he panicked, his arms were out the ball came off him and hit his arm. Definite pen but no way a red.

How come you see accidental handballs not given as fks / pens reasonably regularly then?

Because the referee may not see it or thinks it comes off the players chest. The ref may also see other situations such as a player being less than a yard away having the ball smashed off his arm as accidental and not worthy of a pen or red. The ref may see it differently and see it as deliberate. All down to interpretation IMO. In this case I just felt it was a pen. Mills denied a goal scoring opportunity/goal, as I said he just panicked when the ball came to him and it came off his arm. Accidental but a pen.


can we move on now.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

If it's accidental there is an argument it's not even a penalty, let alone a red card.!

it doesn't neeed to be deliberately handled to be handball.

The "deliberate" part concerns the position of the arm - i.e. was his arm in a natural position or had he deliberately positioned his arm? If your arm is out, then even if you are looking in the other direction, it's handball. If your arm is in a natural position and the ball hits it, then even it it prevents a certain goal, it's not handball.

With this one, there didn't look to be anything at all unnatural about his stance, and the ball came straight at him. There would be grounds for saying it's not handball, but he makes so much contact with the ball, dragging it round, that hardly any refs wouldn't give it.

Once given then there's no choice but to give a red card. It was a foul that denied a clear goalscoring opportunity, and therefore a red card. An intention to cheat doesn't come into it.

Extract from law 12 :
handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own
penalty area)
Therefore the ball must be handled deliberately
Sticking your arm out with the intention of making yourself a bigger target is deliberate

Exactly. It's a hard one to word. "Deliberate" doesn't mean moving your arm to the ball to handle it.

You could stand in the wall at a free kick and turn your back, and stick your arms in the air, and it hits your arms, it'd be "deliberate" in the context of a penalty decision - even if there's no way you'd have been deliberately trying to handle the ball.

And if a foul prevents a clear goalscoring opportunity, it's a red card. There's nothing harsh about such a decision.

[rabidbee]

You could stand in the wall at a free kick and turn your back, and stick your arms in the air, and it hits your arms, it'd be "deliberate" in the context of a penalty decision - even if there's no way you'd have been deliberately trying to handle the ball.

Except, as you've already sad, you _are_ deliberately trying to handle the ball - you want the ball to hit your arm rather than pass over your head, or why would you put your arms there?

[Franchise FC]

You could stand in the wall at a free kick and turn your back, and stick your arms in the air, and it hits your arms, it'd be "deliberate" in the context of a penalty decision - even if there's no way you'd have been deliberately trying to handle the ball.

Except, as you've already sad, you _are_ deliberately trying to handle the ball - you want the ball to hit your arm rather than pass over your head, or why would you put your arms there?

I think you may have misunderstood the Rev's comments.

[Tails]

Any sensible referee would clearly award a penalty and at most a yellow. He booked Bertrand which was completely unjustified - not a particularly good ref (for us).

Once he's given the handball it has to be a red as the shot was on target. Jeez.

Maybe so, but you fail to register that I was NOT talking about the letter of the law....if the letter of the law is as you say it is. Jeez. Common sense me ol' mucker.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Any sensible referee would clearly award a penalty and at most a yellow. He booked Bertrand which was completely unjustified - not a particularly good ref (for us).

Once he's given the handball it has to be a red as the shot was on target. Jeez.

Maybe so, but you fail to register that I was NOT talking about the letter of the law....if the letter of the law is as you say it is. Jeez. Common sense me ol' mucker.

So you are saying the correct decision would be to do what you think the rule should be, rather than what the rule actually is?

You could have a fine career as an ITV pundit.

[Arch]

It looked to me like he was trying to get his chest on the ball but failed. If a penalty hadn't been called it would have been a travesty, though, and given that the ball was goal-bound, unfortunately a red card too.

Have to agree with tails about the spirit, though. There's something wrong that that's a red while Sharp's shocking foul on Fed is only a yellow.

[Platypuss]

Any sensible referee would clearly award a penalty and at most a yellow. He booked Bertrand which was completely unjustified - not a particularly good ref (for us).

Once he's given the handball it has to be a red as the shot was on target. Jeez.

Maybe so, but you fail to register that I was NOT talking about the letter of the law....if the letter of the law is as you say it is. Jeez. Common sense me ol' mucker.

The ref has no latitude for "common sense" in that situation, so the point is moot.

[ZacNaloen]

Explain this, If the ball has been redirected by his body into his arm then how is it a red card as it is no longer heading in the direction of the goal when it hit his arm?

[RoyalBlue]

If it's accidental there is an argument it's not even a penalty, let alone a red card.!

it doesn't neeed to be deliberately handled to be handball.

The "deliberate" part concerns the position of the arm - i.e. was his arm in a natural position or had he deliberately positioned his arm? If your arm is out, then even if you are looking in the other direction, it's handball. If your arm is in a natural position and the ball hits it, then even it it prevents a certain goal, it's not handball.

With this one, there didn't look to be anything at all unnatural about his stance, and the ball came straight at him. There would be grounds for saying it's not handball, but he makes so much contact with the ball, dragging it round, that hardly any refs wouldn't give it.

Once given then there's no choice but to give a red card. It was a foul that denied a clear goalscoring opportunity, and therefore a red card. An intention to cheat doesn't come into it.

It was actually his chest that denied the clear goalscoring opportunity. Took all of the sting out of the shot and deflected it wide. If anything the subsequent 'handball' when he pulled his arm back away towards the goal, in a vain attempt to keep it away from the ball, helped the ball go closer to our goal than it otherwise would! Bad call from the lino on that side who seemed determined to help Doncaster back into the game. Later on, he missed the offside prior to their guy hitting the bar!

I reckon the ref also made the wrong call on the foul on Feds, the challenge for the ball, which wasn't really there to be won, was reckless and made with studs up, foot connecting around the knee area. A very dangerous challenge and their guy was extremely lucky to get away with just a yellow.

As for Bertrand's booking, since when have you not been allowed to wait for your defenders to get forward for a freekick? That whole incident was a farce. The lino missing the clear foul and eventually giving us a throw, which the ref then finally changed to the freekick that it should have been in the first place. And if every ref dished cards out that quickly and with very little (if any) prior warning, there would be an awful lot of players getting booked each game!

[Matt de K]

It looked to me that he went to block it - realised that he might catch it on his arm - pulled it back in - just as it came off his chest to strike his arm. Harsh red card. Yellow maybe. It was completely unintentional. Sky commentators said he made his way up to them after the final whistle to ask if it was a penalty or not.

[tomrfcurz]

Feds - 7/8: Good few saves, but was he really that great, not much else to do
Bertrand - 6: Quiet game but did make a few errors going forward
Griffin - 7: Great few little crosses and did pretty well tracking back a good few times
Mills - 6: Was shocking first 20 mins then did better until that handball
Ingi - 6: Not great but did okay, no huge mistakes though
McAnuff - 6: Usual away form, not the Jobi we see at the Mad but no huge mistakes again
Kebe - 7: Few very good runs but this were always typical Kebe: ended up with nothing!
Karacan - 7: From what i noticed of him, seemed on form doing his job but nothing special
Howard - 8: My man of the match really, played well, especially for Long's goal and deserved his
Gunnarsson - 6: Didn't notice him really and made a few little errors every now and then
Long - 7/8: Good performance, good header for the goal and some good play for Howard's too

[Ian Royal]

It looked to me that he went to block it - realised that he might catch it on his arm - pulled it back in - just as it came off his chest to strike his arm. Harsh red card. Yellow maybe. It was completely unintentional. Sky commentators said he made his way up to them after the final whistle to ask if it was a penalty or not.

agree with this.