Thames Sports Investment

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winchester_royal
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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by winchester_royal » 20 Apr 2012 09:39

Royal Lady Having now read that Telegraph piece - I am slightly concerned that it appears TSI aren't showing the FL or PL where the money is coming from....


I wouldn't read too much into that article. Shocking piece of journalism from a paper that's trying to make up for the fact that they've completely ignored us all season.

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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by mr_number » 20 Apr 2012 09:48

winchester_royal
Royal Lady Having now read that Telegraph piece - I am slightly concerned that it appears TSI aren't showing the FL or PL where the money is coming from....


I wouldn't read too much into that article. Shocking piece of journalism from a paper that's trying to make up for the fact that they've completely ignored us all season.


Yeah, it's all just stuff we knew anyway, and they're making a story because WE ARE PREMIER LEAGUE (etc). And in common with the paper's style, it's written in a slightly negative tone, despite being largely conjecture.

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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by bigmike » 20 Apr 2012 10:01

mr_number
winchester_royal
Royal Lady Having now read that Telegraph piece - I am slightly concerned that it appears TSI aren't showing the FL or PL where the money is coming from....


I wouldn't read too much into that article. Shocking piece of journalism from a paper that's trying to make up for the fact that they've completely ignored us all season.


Yeah, it's all just stuff we knew anyway, and they're making a story because WE ARE PREMIER LEAGUE (etc). And in common with the paper's style, it's written in a slightly negative tone, despite being largely conjecture.


Wouldn't expect anything but negative stuff from that Tory rag..

I am sure that the people at the club have done the investigation thats needed.. I doubt that Madejski would let his ego building 20+ years go down the drain.

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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by 3 veesinarow » 20 Apr 2012 10:24

Haven't read the preceding 141 pages, so apologies if this may have already appeared.

Any, all or none of this could be true...Source: http://www.forbesrussia.ru, forwarded to me. The Russian to English translator is a little cumbersome, but the gist is clearly there.



Boris Zingarevich
Deputy Director General of Ilim Group
He has been waging commercial wars for years
Surname: Zingarevich
Name: Boris
Fathername: Gennadievich
Position: Deputy Director General of Ilim Group

Biography:
Date of Birth: 08 July 1959.
Place of Birth: Sebezh (Pskov region).
1981: Graduated from the Leningrad Technological Institute of Pulp and Paper Industry (specialty: machines and apparatus of PPI)
1991-1992: "Tekhnoferm”, the CEO
1985-1991: Leningrad carton factory, Master of cardboard shop, Production Manager
1981-1985: Kondopozhsky PPM, mechanic
Since 1992 - Deputy Director General of Ilim

Dossier:
Until the early 90's Boris Zingarevich, along with his brother Michael worked as a mechanic at the Leningrad cardboard factory. In 1992 they created "Ilim Pulp" - a company for export of paper products. Then they got reassigned to the woods production, and over the years have bought about 30 logging companies - then timber industry enterprises were sold at very low prices.
Easy money in the timber industry caused competition that turned into criminal fights. Most of them appeared to be in Arkhangelsk region, where the main enterprise of the holding - Kotlas PPM was. In the region, the company has developed a bad reputation to the extent that one day in January 2002, half the guests did not appear on the anniversary of the governor Anatoly Efremov, having learnt that Zingarevich brothers and their partner Zakhar Smushkin were going to be there.
In spring 1999 the house of the head of the Arkhangelsk PPC Vladimir Krupchak was bombed. In the summer of 1999 the head of OAO “Solombalskiy LDK" Evgeny Drachev and his driver were kidnapped by unknown. A few months later director general of forestry complex the department of the regional administration, Alexander Bulatov was beaten. It’s difficult to say whether those events were connected to the activities of Ilim Pulp. However, its top managers- Smushkin and the Zingareviches could have argued with those people, because the struggle for supremacy in the timber industry was very tough, and Arkhangelsk region was considered a "fiefdom" of Ilim Pulp in the field. The regional law enforcement agencies had a huge dirt on the heads of the holding, but for some reason the case went "down on the brakes" every time.
For example, the same story happened with the murder of Dmitry Varvarin, Director General of ZAP "Concern" Orimi”, the main competitor of Ilim Pulp. He was shot in St. Petersburg in March of 2000. The heads of Ilim Pulp, including Boris Zingarevich had sufficient motives for the killing, including the competition and the fact that Varvarin supported the campaign of Yuri Boldyrev for the post of mayor of St. Petersburg, which was obviously to fail. In addition, Varvarin owned shares of Ilim Pulp, so he begged Smushkin and Zingarevichey as his partners to allocate money for it.
A few days after the murder of Varvarin, unknown people killed another founder of "Orimi”, Sergey Krizhan together with his family.
Law enforcement agencies considered the version according to which the two murders were connected with the management of Ilim Pulp, as the most probable, but somehow forgot about it; the team of investigators was excluded from the investigation.

Source: Kompromat.ru from 31.07.2002

The involvement of the heads of "Ilim Pulp" in the second killing has not been confirmed, as in 2005, Andrey Yurevich - the son of commercial director of “Plastpolymer", Victor Yurevich, and two accomplices - Alexander Ulyanov and Vyacheslav Shinkarev were sentenced for that murder. Krizhan was chairman of the board of directors of the company and clashed with Viktor Yurevich.
The newspaper "Kommersant-Petersburg" № 216 (3300) on 17.11.2005
In spring and autumn of 2000, a new wave of crime passed.
In March, the director of Agency Company, lumber exporter - Vladimir Malkov was attacked. And in October, the hotel "Polina", owned by Krupchak was set on fire. As leader of the Arkhangelsk Pulp and Paper Mill, he was a major player in timber market and he could have possibly conflicted to the Zingarevicheses and Smushkin quite often. In 2001 Dmitry Belyaev, External Manager of LDK-4 was attacked. Again, the connection with the management of Ilim Pulp was not confirmed, but it was on the cards, as Ilim Pulp had been seeking for the rule in the forest sector, and Belyaev could have threatened the interests of their company by his business, or could have simply competed with its leaders.
Boris Zingarevich together with the companions did the business of "Ilim Pulp" not very successful, at least for their enterprises. The main one was the debts of Kotlas pulp and paper mill in Arkhangelsk region, Bratsk Timber Complex in the Irkutsk region, as well as others, they had ruthlessly cut down the forest, accidents happened frequently, the equipment was worn out or even broken. At the same salaries were miserable.
Until 2000, the shareholders of Ilim Pulp had not received dividends. Ostensibly, they were invested in production development, but in reality everything was falling apart. The problem was that all the investments in production then were exempt from taxation. Once the tax credit was abolished, dividends went.
In addition, it became clear that Kotlas Pulp came under the control of Ilim Pulp illegally: during the investment competition the money, which the company pledged to invest in a company, were transferred to its account for one day and then were sent back to the accounts of Smushkin and the Zingarevicheses. But formally everything looked legitimate.
They purchased equipment for the companies in an interesting way: at very high prices, while in fact only half of it was brought. The money also flowed to foreign accounts of the firms affiliated with Ilim Pulp.
Other financial frauds by the Zingarevicheses and Smushkin were turned in the Bratsk Timber Industry Complex (BTIC). First they formed huge debts for electricity for the budget of Bratsk and many others. And in 1998 the company established a subsidiary company OAO "Pulp and Cardboard Plant (PCP) and began to place there their liquid assets. Thus, BTIC eventually had unprofitable production and debts. The state had a stake in BTIC and did not impede the withdrawal of assets.
Only Dmitry Medvedev, the current president objected that, then in 1993 he was Director of Legal Affairs "Ilim Pulp", and since 1998 -a member of the Board of Directors in BTIC. His relationship with the Zingarevicheses and Smushkin worsened, and in 1999 they were completely stopped - he was distracted by new concerns associated with climbing the career ladder.
In October 2001 it became known that Ilim Pulp committed deals for the sale of pulp and paper factory to offshore companies. Then the shareholders of OAO “Irkutskenergo" which was the main creditor of BTIC - appealed to the federal agencies. They failed to find out the truth because of the legal tricks: documents submitted to the commission, were valid, but for the period prior to the fraud.
After that the minority shareholders of BTIC went to court, and it ordered to reinstate the dismissed general director BTIC George Trifonov. He restored an order, paid the debts. The Zingarevicheses and Smushkin were defeated. But when in 2002 BTIC came under their control again, they began to restore the old order by dismissing disloyal people and replacing them with loyal ones, uncomprehending in the timber industry.
In addition, the holding company began the blockade of the Ust-Ilim Timber Complex (UiLPK) by not sending paid commodity to the company. All forces were driven to expell the head of the trade union, Yuri Savinkov, they wrote denunciations to the prosecutor's office against the former Complex director Andrey Prokopov. The new head of UiLPK Vladimir Batishchev reported that Prokopov took away the production equipment. It was a slander - he just took jeeps belonging to the management company “Continental Invest”.
In early February 2002 UILPK was entirely under the control of Ilim Pulp.

Source: Kompromat.ru from 13.02.2002

In April 2002, Ilim Pulp lost control over Kotlas and Bratsk pulp and paper mills. There were two lawsuits from shareholders, after which the company’s shares were arrested, and then purchased for the benefit of companies affiliated with the actual new owners - "Basic Element", "Continental management" and "Banking House" Sankt-Petersburg". Oleg Deripaska was behind those machinations, who wanted to get a strategic advantage in the industry.

Source: corp-gov.ru from 29.09.2003

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yuomi
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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by yuomi » 20 Apr 2012 10:35

the mark of a good oligarch is how much distance he keeps between himself and his cupboard full of skeletons. anyone who thinks that abraovich, usmanov et al dont have the same (and worse) behind them is downright naive.


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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by Cape Town Royal » 20 Apr 2012 10:35

How do you expand three stands to only 28k? :lol:[/quote]

1333 seats per stand[/quote]

Ambitious yeah! :lol: All that money on expanding three stands when you would just add that amount to one, you dipstick. :lol: :wink:[/quote]

Its a good point, when you consider there are about what 300 seats in each row along the east stand and about 200 at each end... adding 4000 to the capacity would amount to huge building works for an additional 6 rows of seats :) Ambitious!!!

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Super Kevin Bremner!
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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by Super Kevin Bremner! » 20 Apr 2012 10:39

Old Gill's gotta get the deal done this time and he'll be eating dinner from a plate in no time


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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by Royalee » 20 Apr 2012 10:55

Royal Lady
Cobi SJM has just announced the TSI deal should be completed next week - FL (RT).

AZ plans expansion to 38k next summer if we stay up.

He's an idiot then, if true.


Why? We sold out 40,000 for Wembley last year and the population of the Reading and the surrounding area is more than the likes of most in the Premiership with no rival clubs on our doorstep. We wouldn't fill it every week obviously, but no reason why not against the top 6 or 7 clubs.

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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by HoneyRoastHoax » 20 Apr 2012 11:00

To be fair they have ambitions (like we all do) for top ten in the prem. A top ten team should have a 40k stadium.

Brian will of spoken to Anton just like he did in Milan. Get me these players and I will get you automatic promotion. He was right.

I have faith he will again be able to turn around and say get me these players and you can have your top ten spot.

Its then down to Anton to decide on the cut of his cloth.

Brighton have been filling out the Amex every game since moving from the Withdean and they are expanding again over the next year and they have nothing but champ football to look forward too.

They don't have as much money as we do and have a smaller potential fan base


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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by Yorkshire Royal » 20 Apr 2012 11:17

The club will sell out 38k when big clubs come. Not for the Wigans etc.

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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by HoneyRoastHoax » 20 Apr 2012 11:19

Not this soon no but think of the future. you have to bite the bullet at some time.

You have to have room to grow into

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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by Yorkshire Royal » 20 Apr 2012 11:21

I think you underestimate the glory hunting supporters our club attracts. Or less cynically, the number of fair weather fans. Or even less cynically, the large fanbase who cannot usually afford to go to every game etc..

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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by Uke » 20 Apr 2012 11:29

yuomi the mark of a good oligarch is how much distance he keeps between himself and his cupboard full of skeletons. anyone who thinks that abraovich, usmanov et al dont have the same (and worse) behind them is downright naive.


For some reason this image is always in my head when I hear of his father making money from wood pulp ;)



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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by The Rouge » 20 Apr 2012 11:35

I have loved every word TSI have uttered to be honest. The one thing that fills me with a bit of dread is that I felt like we saw the ceiling to our support when we were in the Prem for the second season and limping to capacity (or even close to it) for some games. We will grow slowly as these kids grow up with a Prem/Championship team rather than Champ/Div1/Div2 but I don't think we will get close to 38k or even 30k for most games for the foreseeable*...

*it feels dangerous using that word

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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by royalZILLAAA » 20 Apr 2012 11:41

Yorkshire Royal Or even less cynically, the large fanbase who cannot usually afford to go to every game etc..


But who can, presumably, afford the inflated PL ticket prices.

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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by LumpWarden » 20 Apr 2012 11:52

The Rouge I have loved every word TSI have uttered to be honest. The one thing that fills me with a bit of dread is that I felt like we saw the ceiling to our support when we were in the Prem for the second season and limping to capacity (or even close to it) for some games. We will grow slowly as these kids grow up with a Prem/Championship team rather than Champ/Div1/Div2 but I don't think we will get close to 38k or even 30k for most games for the foreseeable*...

*it feels dangerous using that word


I agree regarding the ceiling we saw in the second season last time, but think there's a major difference now; last time we werent able to make any signings to capture the imagination of the fair weather supporter. Maybe the ambition of the new ownrrs will ignite the enthusiasm of a whole new group of support?

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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by 79Royal » 20 Apr 2012 11:53

The Rouge I have loved every word TSI have uttered to be honest. The one thing that fills me with a bit of dread is that I felt like we saw the ceiling to our support when we were in the Prem for the second season and limping to capacity (or even close to it) for some games. We will grow slowly as these kids grow up with a Prem/Championship team rather than Champ/Div1/Div2 but I don't think we will get close to 38k or even 30k for most games for the foreseeable*...

*it feels dangerous using that word


Agreed on this. However, we have had recently a couple of 'bring a friend for a fiver' deals, the like of which we've seen rarely before. I wonder whether, with a little more financial backing, the club might introduce these sort of deals (plus the 'kids for a quid', etc) more often in future, in order to help fill the stadium when we play the less glamorous sides? The more often people go, the more likely they are to be persuaded to start following the club. And whilst they may not go on to buy a season ticket straight away, they might buy their kids a replica shirt, or attend a few more games and slowly become a more regular visitor to the stadium.

What seems clear is that there is a desire to make the club a more attractive proposition for the local community, in an attempt to bring in more fans. I know a lot of people for whom Reading is their second club, but rarely attend, and I think the potential is there to get them (or more likely, their kids) supporting Reading full stop.

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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by The Rouge » 20 Apr 2012 11:58

Sure the desire is there, which is good.

I don't really want us to sign premier league established names though - on the way down, big wages, maybe a bit mercenary. I want my Doyles and Leigertwoods..

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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by Cobi » 20 Apr 2012 12:01

LumpWarden
The Rouge I have loved every word TSI have uttered to be honest. The one thing that fills me with a bit of dread is that I felt like we saw the ceiling to our support when we were in the Prem for the second season and limping to capacity (or even close to it) for some games. We will grow slowly as these kids grow up with a Prem/Championship team rather than Champ/Div1/Div2 but I don't think we will get close to 38k or even 30k for most games for the foreseeable*...

*it feels dangerous using that word


I agree regarding the ceiling we saw in the second season last time, but think there's a major difference now; last time we werent able to make any signings to capture the imagination of the fair weather supporter. Maybe the ambition of the new ownrrs will ignite the enthusiasm of a whole new group of support?


Agreed, and it did from the moment we knew about them. As soon as season tickets were announced, albeit at reduced rates, they have flown off the shelves. Investment, renewed ambition and direction, it's captured all our imaginations and giving us all a lift.

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Re: Thames Sports Investment

by JC » 20 Apr 2012 12:08

Royal Lady
Cobi SJM has just announced the TSI deal should be completed next week - FL (RT).

AZ plans expansion to 38k next summer if we stay up.

He's an idiot then, if true.


Why?

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