How Long Will BM Last at this rate?????

[cmonurz]

I guess what I abhor are posts like Woodcote's that suggest it's anything but a tiny minority who make unconstructive and vitriolic posts.

[Royal Rother]

Yeah, but he wouldn't be WR if he didn't make every post a full-on attack on somebody.

[Top Flight]

I'm proud of the fact that I backed McDermott when many others were calling for his head.

He is simply a fantastic manager. Even if we go down this season, it won't change the admiration that I have for the job that he is doing at RFC. It is possible to get promoted from the Championship to the Premier League, make progress and still get relegated such is the gulf in class between the two divisions. So long as I can see that McDermott is taking us forward regardless of results on a game by game basis, then I will always back him.

[Divvy]

I'm proud of the fact that I backed McDermott when many others were calling for his head.

He is simply a fantastic manager. Even if we go down this season, it won't change the admiration that I have for the job that he is doing at RFC. It is possible to get promoted from the Championship to the Premier League, make progress and still get relegated such is the gulf in class between the two divisions. So long as I can see that McDermott is taking us forward regardless of results on a game by game basis, then I will always back him.

Yeah agree with a lot of that. If we go down we go down with a much improved side, and with 4 years of parachute payments as well, we're well placed to continue to strengthen and give promotion another shot. Look back to Bolton, they did it; and look at West Brom. I'd be more than happy with that.

[melonhead]

I guess what I abhor are posts like Woodcote's that suggest it's anything but a tiny minority who make unconstructive and vitriolic posts.

you see, everyone thinks their posts are rational and balanced.



id suggest it is more than a "tiny minority"
though ive not seen anything in his post that actually suggests any size for this group

[Ian Royal]

I don't think anyone's been wrong.

Not much

There's been more negative sh*t on here this season than I can ever remember, most of which has already been shown to be complete bollox whether we are relegated or not

"Simples"

In what way will the negativity have been proved wrong?

Most of the criticism was based around tactical and team selection mistakes that McDermott was making time after time and his inability to either buy the players to make his preferred system work or get the best out of the better players he brought in over the summer to make a new (more Premier League suitable) system work and get better results.

I'd say that recent events have shown that a lot of the negativity and criticism has been shown to be correct. We've evolved the way we play and got more out of the likes of Pogrebnyak and Guthrie and made ourselves harder to beat. We've relied on a bit of fortune to stay in the games we've won yes, and that's still a worry for me, but we look like we've finally learned some obvious lessons now, albeit a bit too late.

Although I never really wanted McDermott to go I've always been of the opinion that he was a major contributory factor in our lack of results. He, and the rest of the club, appear to have accepted that they got things wrong and have had to learn lessons along the way. My issue is that those lesssons were pretty obvious and the delay in waking up to the reality of Premier League football will probably still cost us our place in the league.

I'm glad we've stuck with McDermott, and I'm glad he's making the changes that we needed. What I want to see from here until the end of the season is a continued improvement and even better defensive displays that mean we're not hanging on quite so much in the first 45 minutes and can pick up points whilst learning how to play a more effective brand of football for next season.

Bang on!

critics were demanding those changes when we only had two fit midfielders

If you have no intention of using Gunnarsson, don't give him a squad number.
Guthrie wasn't injured for all that time, there were games before he got injured he was dropped and games after he recovered that he didn't get in the team.
McAnuff has just played central midfield, HRK and McCleary were fit at the time iirc. So clearly that was also an option that got ignored.
Robson-Kanu or McCleary could have been tried in the hole.

And being down to two fit midfielders is McDermott's responsibility to prevent.

So basically, I think that's all just excuses to put your fingers in your ears and defend McDermott for the sake of defending him.

[Ian Royal]

coming from the biggest twat on here i take that as a mssive compliment

Yay! Thanks.

[melonhead]

totally forgot about you tbf

[melonhead]

So basically, I think that's all just excuses to put your fingers in your ears and defend McDermott for the sake of defending him.

recognise problems, propose solutions

all fine.


but realise brian has enough credit in the bank to make mistakes, and not have people booing him, and demanding he be sacked.

[Ian Royal]

So basically, I think that's all just excuses to put your fingers in your ears and defend McDermott for the sake of defending him.

recognise problems, propose solutions

all fine.


but realise brian has enough credit in the bank to make mistakes, and not have people booing him, and demanding he be sacked.

To an extent. For me he'd got to the point where he'd used up the credit given the circumstances. Happily pretty much at the point I came to the conclusion he'd finally reached the point of no return, he made the changes.

I agree there's little need for vitriolic abuse. Although you have to remember that this is quite often a place to blow off steam and frustration, particularly during and in the immediate aftermath of a game. I think outside of that very few were giving vitriolic abuse. But plenty were saying that he was part of the problem and needed to change or go soon if he couldn't. Which is different.

Even if we fell apart again now, it's too late to really make an effective change. So it was just in that November / December period that the calls were appropriate in my opinion, which happened to be when we were shittest.

[Hoop Blah]

So, because you saw some changes that were needed and McDermott didn't implement them until he had players back from injury and/or the transfer window opened, that justifies our resident twats calling for his head

Having an opinion on whether McDermott could, or would, turn things around isn't being a twat, it's taking a view on the future good of the club, it also isn't negative as you originally stated. It was just realistic that things were going wrong.

There were some calling for his head because he, arguably, wasn't showing the willingness or capability to change. He certainly wasn't showing the ability to do it quickly enough. As it stands, we're deep in the mire and it's been caused, in a large part, by his mistakes. I've maintained all along that I wanted him to stay and turn things around, but I think there was a very strong case for him to be pushed when he was part of the problem.

If he was pushed there's also an argument that we'd be in a better position than we are now. We'll never know though.

Last summer, McDermott had his worst transfer window since he became manager (not that I've seen many complaints about him signing "Butter wouldn't melt" Shorey ) and this has been a major factor in our struggles this season...................sh*t happens, but after a fantastic record going back to his days as head coach, he has also banked enough credit in this respect to get things wrong once in a while without out resident twats calling for his head.

Yes he had a lot of credit. Most took that into account during an awful spell where it was plainly obvious he didn't have a way out of the rut we were in. I don't think he could've had too much to complain about if he'd got the bullet considering the scale and impact of those mistakes. Calling people twats for falling on that side of an argument is a bit petty and juvenile WR.

Having got us promoted last season when most of our resident twats didn't give us a prayer 12 months ago, he did his best to give the successful squad a chance to prove they were good enough to bridge the gap in class, when our resident twats would have happily scene him spend £50m on a new team before a ball was kicked.

Which he, and the club, have admitted was a mistake that got us into this position. I don't see going in to the season with a squad without the right balance or quality a positive I'm afraid.

With over a week to go before the window closes, we have made 3 signings (probably 4) and have now won three of our last 4 matches, making us at least an even money bet to avoid relegation.......................so, yes, once again McDermott is doing a fantastic job for this club and our resident twats are showing as ever, that they NEVER learn.

We've turned it round thankfully yes. That's a great result for us as we've given ourselves a chance of staying up. We still need to perform better than we have been, or currently are, to sneek safety, but I'm glad we're now in a better position than we were.

None of the above means anyone calling for his was either wrong or a twat though.

[melonhead]

So basically, I think that's all just excuses to put your fingers in your ears and defend McDermott for the sake of defending him.

recognise problems, propose solutions

all fine.


but realise brian has enough credit in the bank to make mistakes, and not have people booing him, and demanding he be sacked.

To an extent. For me he'd got to the point where he'd used up the credit given the circumstances. Happily pretty much at the point I came to the conclusion he'd finally reached the point of no return, he made the changes.

I agree there's little need for vitriolic abuse. Although you have to remember that this is quite often a place to blow off steam and frustration, particularly during and in the immediate aftermath of a game. I think outside of that very few were giving vitriolic abuse. But plenty were saying that he was part of the problem and needed to change or go soon if he couldn't. Which is different.

Even if we fell apart again now, it's too late to really make an effective change. So it was just in that November / December period that the calls were appropriate in my opinion, which happened to be when we were shittest.

thats all where i disagree with you and your ilk

im clearly just more loyal, and have a better memory than you

[Hoop Blah]

I'm proud of the fact that I backed McDermott when many others were calling for his head.

He is simply a fantastic manager. Even if we go down this season, it won't change the admiration that I have for the job that he is doing at RFC. It is possible to get promoted from the Championship to the Premier League, make progress and still get relegated such is the gulf in class between the two divisions. So long as I can see that McDermott is taking us forward regardless of results on a game by game basis, then I will always back him.

Totally agree on that final sentiment. Unfortunately, despite me not calling for his head, that wasn't where we were when McDermott was taking the first third of the season to wake up to the fact that other teams keep the ball and defend in numbers for the sake of it. It just happens to be the way you have to play for a significant part of Premier League football.

For a Championship or Premier League manager to need so long to suss that out was pretty shoddy to be fair. Here's to continued improvements though!

[melonhead]

supplementing current squad with a few young hungry acquisitions, while continuing to play in the manner that got you promoted worked very well last year for the promoted teams
seemed pretty reasonable to give it a go this year imo




also you say it was a mistake to go into the season with not enough quality.
but whose mistake?
you know my thoughts. based on brians numerous statements given over the last few months

apart from 1 slightly iffy interview where anton perhaps alludes to it, why do you think brian is to blame for that?

[Ian Royal]

To an extent. For me he'd got to the point where he'd used up the credit given the circumstances. Happily pretty much at the point I came to the conclusion he'd finally reached the point of no return, he made the changes.

I agree there's little need for vitriolic abuse. Although you have to remember that this is quite often a place to blow off steam and frustration, particularly during and in the immediate aftermath of a game. I think outside of that very few were giving vitriolic abuse. But plenty were saying that he was part of the problem and needed to change or go soon if he couldn't. Which is different.

Even if we fell apart again now, it's too late to really make an effective change. So it was just in that November / December period that the calls were appropriate in my opinion, which happened to be when we were shittest.

thats all where i disagree with you and your ilk

im clearly just more loyal, and have a better memory than you

No, it's where you show yourself up as just as bad as those who dish out the vitriolic abuse but in the opposite direction. You don't have to agree, but to make out you're some how better for supporting the manager in the face of terrible results and poor performance, with little justification other than "he was good last year", is pathetic.

[Ian Royal]

supplementing current squad with a few young hungry acquisitions, while continuing to play in the manner that got you promoted worked very well last year for the promoted teams
seemed pretty reasonable to give it a go this year imo




also you say it was a mistake to go into the season with not enough quality.
but whose mistake?
you know my thoughts. based on brians numerous statements given over the last few months

apart from 1 slightly iffy interview where anton perhaps alludes to it, why do you think brian is to blame for that?

He said he got everyone he wanted and later said the club was wrong not to invest more. He was part of the team that decided not to invest more. He has never said he wasn't given enough money by someone, or that he was refused money.

[melonhead]

To an extent. For me he'd got to the point where he'd used up the credit given the circumstances. Happily pretty much at the point I came to the conclusion he'd finally reached the point of no return, he made the changes.

I agree there's little need for vitriolic abuse. Although you have to remember that this is quite often a place to blow off steam and frustration, particularly during and in the immediate aftermath of a game. I think outside of that very few were giving vitriolic abuse. But plenty were saying that he was part of the problem and needed to change or go soon if he couldn't. Which is different.

Even if we fell apart again now, it's too late to really make an effective change. So it was just in that November / December period that the calls were appropriate in my opinion, which happened to be when we were shittest.

thats all where i disagree with you and your ilk

im clearly just more loyal, and have a better memory than you

No, it's where you show yourself up as just as bad as those who dish out the vitriolic abuse but in the opposite direction. You don't have to agree, but to make out you're some how better for supporting the manager in the face of terrible results and poor performance, with little justification other than "he was good last year", is pathetic.

the only areas i "made out" i was better than you was in terms of loyalty and memory
and i stand by that


since you dumped on the bloke whos management got us here (after a play off final and other close call in 3 years)with a threadbare squad of nobodies, given absolutely no hope, after having to sell all our best players, and with no money to spend on the total rebuild required.


thats what loyalty is.
ive been just as critical. pointed out when and where i think he's made mistakes.been totaly open minded and balanced.
but you dont just turn your back at the first sign of adversity. or even the 2nd or 3rd after what he has done for us since he took the job.


thats what makes what you did pathetic.

imo of course

[melonhead]

supplementing current squad with a few young hungry acquisitions, while continuing to play in the manner that got you promoted worked very well last year for the promoted teams
seemed pretty reasonable to give it a go this year imo




also you say it was a mistake to go into the season with not enough quality.
but whose mistake?
you know my thoughts. based on brians numerous statements given over the last few months

apart from 1 slightly iffy interview where anton perhaps alludes to it, why do you think brian is to blame for that?

He said he got everyone he wanted and later said the club was wrong not to invest more. He was part of the team that decided not to invest more. He has never said he wasn't given enough money by someone, or that he was refused money.

has repeated over and over again-
he was given a budget, and spent it all.
we simply dont have the resources to spend alot of money.etc loads of times

"we got everyone we wanted" was in the context of the budget he was given


he is simply not the kind of bloke to even imply it wasnt down to him if it was.

[Hoop Blah]

I think, to an extent, you're hearing what you want to hear there brendy. McDermotts line has generally been that he had a budget and that he spent it all, and that he got everyone he went for. You're right that the last bit has to be taken in context of the budget the club works within.

I think the bit of the context you're under appreciating is the role that McDermott, as the manager, has in setting that budget. I believe that from the comments, and the tone they're made in, made by McDermott and Zingaravich that the decision to stick so much with the existing squad was one made in consultation between McDermott, Zingaravich, Hammond and probably Madejski.

If the manager doesn't think the squad is up to it then it's part of his job to manage his paymasters to increase his budget to a level where he feels comfortable with what he had. I don't get the impression that McDermott felt he was left short. I think he was absolutely behind the decision to trust the players who'd got him the success last season (a nice idealology but one that was a bit naive and flawed - I think he's basically accepted that himself hasn't he?).

supplementing current squad with a few young hungry acquisitions, while continuing to play in the manner that got you promoted worked very well last year for the promoted teams
seemed pretty reasonable to give it a go this year imo

I think both Norwich and Swansea added astutely to their squad but they also, at least in my perception, had a younger and improving squad that played a brand of football that was already better suited for the demands of the Premier League when they went up.

QPR also, relatively, cruised to the title that year and went out and spent quite a bit.

There is no right and wrong way to do it, it's what needs to be done in your own circumstances that matters. I think we needed a bit more to supplement our squad with a number of older players who'd either never been seen as good enough for Premier League clubs to take them, or they'd had their chances and largely failed. If we'd got better use out of the players we'd added over the summer earlier in the season I don't think we'd have been as badly off now.

also you say it was a mistake to go into the season with not enough quality.
but whose mistake?
you know my thoughts. based on brians numerous statements given over the last few months

apart from 1 slightly iffy interview where anton perhaps alludes to it, why do you think brian is to blame for that?

As above, I put a lot of the blame on McDermotts door as he's the man who's ultimately responsible for what happens on the pitch. His hands are tied by the fact we're one of the smaller clubs in the division, but his management of the squad he put together has contributed massively to our problems but being light a few bodies was a mistake.

[melonhead]

but not his mistake if he was only given 5 million to spend.....