New signing today

[Starfish]

This thread is wonderful.

[brendywendy]

I think the idea that the Irish and Northern Irish are 'the same people' is jaw dropping !

Are you unaware of the 30 years of civil war that has finally been ended in recent weeks ?

hmm, you may want to consider the meaning of civil war. Also that is largely religious and political. Or would you say Celtic fans are not the same people as Rangers fans?

Republicans - essentially Irish Catholics and in the minority (historically) in the North

Loyalists - essentially Protestant Scots and in the majority in the North.

Two pretty different peoples who ended up in the same place and have fought each other ever since.

If you define 'people' as 'members of the human race' then they are the same, but to assert that the Southern and Northern Irish are 'the same' and therefore all our Southern Irish players are near enough British is a pretty unconvincing arguement...

You could argue that the Scots and (say) the Norwegians are near enough the same, and therefore Norway is 'local' !!

they didnt just "end up"in the same place,
arent the catholics(republican) decended from the real irish -and the protestants(unionist) decended form the english/scots gentry and their entourages, that we sent over there to colonise the place, breed out the locals,murder babies, shoot innocent gaelic sports players etc, etc ?
i dunno i cant remember my GCSE history

i think national borders are becoming increasingly outmoded and pointless anyway

[SpaceCruiser]

Northen Irish = British

Mmmmmmmmm, I always thought the NI was part of the UK, not Britain.

[brendywendy]

[if its a civil war then they are the same people!

.

Tosh !

Civil war is fought between people of one country, but plenty of countries are made up of groups of peoples of different religions, ethnicity etc.

See Rwanda, Yugoslavia, Iraq .....

but people of one country could definately be construed as meaning one people

[SpaceCruiser]

[if its a civil war then they are the same people!

.

Tosh !

Civil war is fought between people of one country, but plenty of countries are made up of groups of peoples of different religions, ethnicity etc.

See Rwanda, Yugoslavia, Iraq .....

but people of one country could definately be construed as meaning one people

...........and local.

[M Brook]

Northen Irish = British

Mmmmmmmmm, I always thought the NI was part of the UK, not Britain.

Correct. the United Kingdom of Great Britain and (bits of) Northern Ireland.

[rabidbee]

Northen Irish = British

Mmmmmmmmm, I always thought the NI was part of the UK, not Britain.

Correct. the United Kingdom of Great Britain and (bits of) Northern Ireland.

Nevertheless, "British" is the correct term for a citizen of the UK, whether they are actually from "Great Britain" or any of the other constituant parts of the UK. Read your passport for the correct definition.

As for discussions of civil wars in Ireland, Yugoslavia, Rwanda, &c... this is starting to sound like a seminar in one of the courses I teach here at uni. It strikes me that some people are confusing nation states with ethnicity. Anyway, many modern states are modern, artificial, political creations, that contain various groups with quite distinctive cultures and identities. Therefore, do these civil wars - Yugoslavia is a great example - constitute civil wars or wars of independence? It really depends on a) from whose outlook you consider the question and b) the outcome of the war.

As for Ireland, don't forget that the Scots were originally Irish anyway... The British Isles has been a melting pot for centuries, so attempts to distinguish between racial groups are flawed; the differences between different "nations" are cultural, and - I would say - quite minimal. Regardless of nationalist politics, the British Isles has been a single cultural unit - with ideas and people migrating regularly in both directions - for at least five centuries, and to a lesser degree much longer. The discussion about medieval invasions illustrates that: the Norman-French invaded England, lowland Scotland, Wales and eventually arrived in Ireland (the "Old English"). Earlier, "Vikings" had successfully created Kingdoms in Scotland, nothern England and Ireland (Dublin was a Viking creation). It is very hard to isolate one part of the British Isles from the rest, especially as they all come to be ruled from Westminster; in that sense they are "local" to one another, through sharing a common heritage.

[brighton_royal]

http://hobnob.royals.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61570&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[East Stand Ste]

Steve Mautone, on loan....great signing!!

[Gav]

Hey Jute, Don't make it bad,
We'll take olde England and make it better,
Remember, to let us into your ports,
Then you can start, to make it better

[Horsham Royal]

From discussing a posible new signing to debating the meaning of 'civil war' in 15 short pages.
Top nobbing !

[Compo's Hat]

If only F.L.T.L.R. wasn't banned

[papereyes]

Northen Irish = British

Mmmmmmmmm, I always thought the NI was part of the UK, not Britain.

Geographically, Ireland (the island) is part of the British Isles (archipeligo of island off the Atlantic coast of Europe), but you tell someone from the Republic that they're British and its a whole world of trouble.

That said, I genuinely doubt that there's any significant genetic/ethnic difference between Northern and Republican Irish. Maybe there is. The difference is going to be the cultural/religious one.

The really oxf*rd pointless one.

[Doyler]

I think the idea that the Irish and Northern Irish are 'the same people' is jaw dropping !

Are you unaware of the 30 years of civil war that has finally been ended in recent weeks ?

hmm, you may want to consider the meaning of civil war. Also that is largely religious and political. Or would you say Celtic fans are not the same people as Rangers fans?

Republicans - essentially Irish Catholics and in the minority (historically) in the North

Loyalists - essentially Protestant Scots and in the majority in the North.

Two pretty different peoples who ended up in the same place and have fought each other ever since.

If you define 'people' as 'members of the human race' then they are the same, but to assert that the Southern and Northern Irish are 'the same' and therefore all our Southern Irish players are near enough British is a pretty unconvincing arguement...

You could argue that the Scots and (say) the Norwegians are near enough the same, and therefore Norway is 'local' !!

They are both Irish though. I don't think you could argue that about the Scots and Norwegians.

Besides, the Northern Irish arn't Scots, it's more half the scots are of Irish descent

They are indeed, if you've seen Billy Connolly's stand up show in New York, he says the Scots were a mentally ill Irish tribe and the Chief said 'Look lads, I've found an even rainier place, let's go!

[VOR]

Northen Irish = British

Mmmmmmmmm, I always thought the NI was part of the UK, not Britain.

Geographically, Ireland (the island) is part of the British Isles (archipeligo of island off the Atlantic coast of Europe), but you tell someone from the Republic that they're British and its a whole world of trouble.

That said, I genuinely doubt that there's any significant genetic/ethnic difference between Northern and Republican Irish. Maybe there is. The difference is going to be the cultural/religious one.

The really oxf*rd pointless one.

'Loyalists' in Northern Ireland associate themselves with Great Britain for political reasons but Ireland is NOT part of Britain and never has been. It was for some time part of the British empire but then so was India. To suggest that someone from Ireland is British makes as much sense as saying a Brazilian is Portuguese.

The term 'British Isles' was a political construct and has been an anachronism for over 80 years and one that the Republic is justified in pushing to have removed from atlases etc.

[SpaceCruiser]

Northen Irish = British

Mmmmmmmmm, I always thought the NI was part of the UK, not Britain.

Geographically, Ireland (the island) is part of the British Isles (archipeligo of island off the Atlantic coast of Europe), but you tell someone from the Republic that they're British and its a whole world of trouble.

That said, I genuinely doubt that there's any significant genetic/ethnic difference between Northern and Republican Irish. Maybe there is. The difference is going to be the cultural/religious one.

The really oxf*rd pointless one.

'Loyalists' in Northern Ireland associate themselves with Great Britain for political reasons but Ireland is NOT part of Britain and never has been. It was for some time part of the British empire but then so was India. To suggest that someone from Ireland is British makes as much sense as saying a Brazilian is Portuguese.

The term 'British Isles' was a political construct and has been an anachronism for over 80 years and one that the Republic is justified in pushing to have removed from atlases etc.

So what are they going to call this group of islands?

British Isles is fine, they just don't like the idea of being assiocated with us.

[papereyes]

Northen Irish = British

Mmmmmmmmm, I always thought the NI was part of the UK, not Britain.

Geographically, Ireland (the island) is part of the British Isles (archipeligo of island off the Atlantic coast of Europe), but you tell someone from the Republic that they're British and its a whole world of trouble.

That said, I genuinely doubt that there's any significant genetic/ethnic difference between Northern and Republican Irish. Maybe there is. The difference is going to be the cultural/religious one.

The really oxf*rd pointless one.

'Loyalists' in Northern Ireland associate themselves with Great Britain for political reasons but Ireland is NOT part of Britain and never has been. It was for some time part of the British empire but then so was India. To suggest that someone from Ireland is British makes as much sense as saying a Brazilian is Portuguese.

The term 'British Isles' was a political construct and has been an anachronism for over 80 years and one that the Republic is justified in pushing to have removed from atlases etc.

Or a geographical construct, that some people get overly het up about.

Spacey - one name that I got told was "Iona" Isles of the North Atlantic.

Quite nice.

[MartinRdg]

Northen Irish = British

Mmmmmmmmm, I always thought the NI was part of the UK, not Britain.

Exactly. UK = United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern ireland

[SpaceCruiser]

Spacey - one name that I got told was "Iona" Isles of the North Atlantic.

Quite nice.

News to me. I don't think I like that, sounds too much like an island in one of these Jurassic films.

I prefer British Isles, why do we need to change it?

[Behindu]

[

Spacey - one name that I got told was "Iona" Isles of the North Atlantic.

.

Why use a name of an existing (and very famous) island...

You may as well pick 'England' or 'Jersey' !