Opposition fans back from the game - 24/25 page 225 onwards

[Snowflake Royal]

"Big" in most cases just means were successful at some undefined point in the past.

In 20 or 30 years time, quite possible that we could be seen as a big club, if we are long term settled in the top flight and won a couple of things whilst Forest could still be bouncing around the Champ/L1 and not be seen as one i.e. a Preston.

How long is a long time? Stoke, Southampton and Bournemouth all had or are having fair periods of top flight football but don't think anyone would consider them big clubs.

West Ham also comes to mind.

Will Wolves ever be a big club for example? Reckon they are one manager change away from dropping like a stone.

On the phone in last night couple of Wolves fans wanting a new manager. They were calling for Benitez (which always makes me laugh). It's like Alan Curbishly and Charlton never happened. It's amazing how being a bit successful goes to fans heads.

To be fair, Curbishley left Charlton almost 15 years ago. I suspect quite a lot of those Wolves fans were children back then.

[NewCorkSeth]

"Big" in most cases just means were successful at some undefined point in the past.

In 20 or 30 years time, quite possible that we could be seen as a big club, if we are long term settled in the top flight and won a couple of things whilst Forest could still be bouncing around the Champ/L1 and not be seen as one i.e. a Preston.

How long is a long time? Stoke, Southampton and Bournemouth all had or are having fair periods of top flight football but don't think anyone would consider them big clubs.

West Ham also comes to mind.

Will Wolves ever be a big club for example? Reckon they are one manager change away from dropping like a stone.

On the phone in last night couple of Wolves fans wanting a new manager. They were calling for Benitez (which always makes me laugh). It's like Alan Curbishly and Charlton never happened. It's amazing how being a bit successful goes to fans heads.

Huh. I did not expect that.

[Forbury Lion]

How long is a long time? Stoke, Southampton and Bournemouth all had or are having fair periods of top flight football but don't think anyone would consider them big clubs.

West Ham also comes to mind.

Will Wolves ever be a big club for example? Reckon they are one manager change away from dropping like a stone.

Honestly I think it depends on each individual fan base but as a general rule, it seems that if a club was particularly successful in the 70s or 80s they are considered big more often than clubs who had success earlier or later than that.

Which is funny considering how much easier the European Cup competitions were back then.

PSG fans here are very quick to point out that Marseilles only had to play 11 games when they won their Champions League.

To be fair, back then it wasn't it a pure knock out competition with no home/away aggregate scores and no group stage where you could lose games and still win? Open only to champions, so no chance of facing second rate teams?
Probably harder to win back then, but also easier to throw it away.

[NewCorkSeth]

Honestly I think it depends on each individual fan base but as a general rule, it seems that if a club was particularly successful in the 70s or 80s they are considered big more often than clubs who had success earlier or later than that.

Which is funny considering how much easier the European Cup competitions were back then.

PSG fans here are very quick to point out that Marseilles only had to play 11 games when they won their Champions League.

To be fair, back then it wasn't it a pure knock out competition with no home/away aggregate scores and no group stage where you could lose games and still win? Open only to champions, so no chance of facing second rate teams?
Probably harder to win back then, but also easier to throw it away.

Dunno mate. They played Glentoran, Dinamo Bucharest, Club Brugge, Rangers and CSKA Moscow and then shithoused Milan in the final. Thats a fairly simple run of games compared to what teams have to do now.

Anyway, I dont care about it so much, just think its fair to say comparing it when Forest won it to now is apples to oranges.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Which is funny considering how much easier the European Cup competitions were back then.

PSG fans here are very quick to point out that Marseilles only had to play 11 games when they won their Champions League.

To be fair, back then it wasn't it a pure knock out competition with no home/away aggregate scores and no group stage where you could lose games and still win? Open only to champions, so no chance of facing second rate teams?
Probably harder to win back then, but also easier to throw it away.

Dunno mate. They played Glentoran, Dinamo Bucharest, Club Brugge, Rangers and CSKA Moscow and then shithoused Milan in the final. Thats a fairly simple run of games compared to what teams have to do now.

Anyway, I dont care about it so much, just think its fair to say comparing it when Forest won it to now is apples to oranges.

I reckon much easier back then, European Cup was for champions of each league only and the draw I believe was like the FA Cup now; ie no seeding and home/away legs; so if you messed up against a weak side you had another leg to rectify it.

In their other final, Forest played FC Malmo - could never happen now

[Sutekh]

To be fair, back then it wasn't it a pure knock out competition with no home/away aggregate scores and no group stage where you could lose games and still win? Open only to champions, so no chance of facing second rate teams?
Probably harder to win back then, but also easier to throw it away.

Dunno mate. They played Glentoran, Dinamo Bucharest, Club Brugge, Rangers and CSKA Moscow and then shithoused Milan in the final. Thats a fairly simple run of games compared to what teams have to do now.

Anyway, I dont care about it so much, just think its fair to say comparing it when Forest won it to now is apples to oranges.

I reckon much easier back then, European Cup was for champions of each league only and the draw I believe was like the FA Cup now; ie no seeding and home/away legs; so if you messed up against a weak side you had another leg to rectify it.

In their other final, Forest played FC Malmo - could never happen now

Whereas if you mess up in the group stage now you get 2/3 attempts to rectify it and even if you don’t you then get parachuted into what is the equivalent of the associate members cup of European football. Much prefer it as it was, a competition with only the holders and the champions of each European nation competing in a straight knockout competition. But then that format couldn’t be milked for as much money as possible and, by inviting all the alsorans to compete, maintain the status quo of all the big clubs.

[NewCorkSeth]

Dunno mate. They played Glentoran, Dinamo Bucharest, Club Brugge, Rangers and CSKA Moscow and then shithoused Milan in the final. Thats a fairly simple run of games compared to what teams have to do now.

Anyway, I dont care about it so much, just think its fair to say comparing it when Forest won it to now is apples to oranges.

I reckon much easier back then, European Cup was for champions of each league only and the draw I believe was like the FA Cup now; ie no seeding and home/away legs; so if you messed up against a weak side you had another leg to rectify it.

In their other final, Forest played FC Malmo - could never happen now

Whereas if you mess up in the group stage now you get 2/3 attempts to rectify it and even if you don’t you then get parachuted into what is the equivalent of the associate members cup of European football. Much prefer it as it was, a competition with only the holders and the champions of each European nation competing in a straight knockout competition. But then that format couldn’t be milked for as much money as possible and, by inviting all the alsorans to compete, maintain the status quo of all the big clubs.

Cant say I'm that interested in watching Barcelona play Valur or Juventus play Floriana..

[Forbury Lion]

I reckon much easier back then, European Cup was for champions of each league only and the draw I believe was like the FA Cup now; ie no seeding and home/away legs; so if you messed up against a weak side you had another leg to rectify it.

In their other final, Forest played FC Malmo - could never happen now

Whereas if you mess up in the group stage now you get 2/3 attempts to rectify it and even if you don’t you then get parachuted into what is the equivalent of the associate members cup of European football. Much prefer it as it was, a competition with only the holders and the champions of each European nation competing in a straight knockout competition. But then that format couldn’t be milked for as much money as possible and, by inviting all the alsorans to compete, maintain the status quo of all the big clubs.

Cant say I'm that interested in watching Barcelona play Valur or Juventus play Floriana..

But imagine watching the draw and round 1 it's Real Madrid v Barcelona, That game will be played like a final and nobody will be playing with the group table/second leg in mind.

Maybe England should set an example and make the FA Cup a pure knockout competition from the first round with all teams in it from the start - yes, give the big premier league teams a concession by allowing them to not field their strongest XI but at their own risk.

[From Despair To Where?]

To be fair to Forest, the years they won the European Cup they played

Rd 1 - Defending European Champions (Liverpool)
Rd2 - Greek Champions (AEK Athens)
QF - Swiss Champions (Grasshoppers)
SF - West German Champions (Koln)
F - Swedish Champions (Malmo)

Monaco lost to Malmo in Rd 1
Juventus lost to Rangers in Rd 1
Porto lost to AEK in Round 1
Real Madrid lost to Grasshoppers in Rd 2
PSV lost to Rangers in Rd 2.
Rangers lost to Koln in the QF


The Second year they won it, they played

Rd 1 -Swedish Champions (Osters)
Rd 2- Romanian Champions (Arges Pitesti)
QF - East German Champions (Dynamo Berlin)
SF - Dutch Champions (Ajax)
F - West German Champions (Hamburg)

Mjlan lost to Porto in Rd 1
Porto lost to Real in Rd 2
Strasbourg lost to Ajax in QF
Real Madrid lost to Hamburg in SF


No really piss easy ties there, especially when you consider the best Eastern European teams were state funded and more or less had the pick of the best players in their country. Polish clubs, for example, were particularly strong in European competition.

[SCIAG]

Whereas if you mess up in the group stage now you get 2/3 attempts to rectify it and even if you don’t you then get parachuted into what is the equivalent of the associate members cup of European football. Much prefer it as it was, a competition with only the holders and the champions of each European nation competing in a straight knockout competition. But then that format couldn’t be milked for as much money as possible and, by inviting all the alsorans to compete, maintain the status quo of all the big clubs.

Cant say I'm that interested in watching Barcelona play Valur or Juventus play Floriana..

But imagine watching the draw and round 1 it's Real Madrid v Barcelona, That game will be played like a final and nobody will be playing with the group table/second leg in mind.

Maybe England should set an example and make the FA Cup a pure knockout competition from the first round with all teams in it from the start - yes, give the big premier league teams a concession by allowing them to not field their strongest XI but at their own risk.

Between 512 and 1024 teams enter the FA Cup, so you’d need a qualifying competition to whittle it down to 512 and then nine rounds including the final. So not as crazy as it sounds! Could abolish the League Cup and end replays to make it viable.

[Jagermesiter1871]

who gives a oxf*rd. this happened 2 generations ago.

[From Despair To Where?]

I guess its interesting to discuss the relative merits of a Competition where its straight knock out over 2 legs (which favours the big teams) where you either have to beat the big teams or beat the teams that beat the big teams to win it, or an endless round Robin format where a team who finished 33 points behind their respective country's champions can get knocked out by an energy drinks company works team.

Admittedly, its probably the wrong forum but I was intrigued by the suggestion that the European Cup was a piece of piss because Forest played a Swedish team in the final, irrespective of who either team actually beat to get there.

[leon]

Yawn.

Having sat with Forest fans at Wimbledon about 20 years ago I can say they are absolutely in bred freaks. It was like the hills have eyes vs Wrong Turn 2.

I can only imagine with that level of incestuous reproduction the proceeding years will not have been kind to the gene pool.

[Forbury Lion]

:lol: who gives a oxf*rd. this happened 2 generations ago.

Still within my lifetime, only 2 years before the Falklands War.

[tidus_mi2]

To be fair to Forest, back in the days before big money entering football, the European sides were far closer in terms of strength, yes you still had your minnows that got smashed but the fact that Celtic could win the European Cup says all you need to know about the relative strength of European sides back then.

[SCIAG]

Yawn.

Having sat with Forest fans at Wimbledon about 20 years ago I can say they are absolutely in bred freaks. It was like the hills have eyes vs Wrong Turn 2.

I can only imagine with that level of incestuous reproduction the proceeding years will not have been kind to the gene pool.

Not sure about this, but I do know that Fulham are a really big club.

[leon]

Yawn.

Having sat with Forest fans at Wimbledon about 20 years ago I can say they are absolutely in bred freaks. It was like the hills have eyes vs Wrong Turn 2.

I can only imagine with that level of incestuous reproduction the proceeding years will not have been kind to the gene pool.

Not sure about this, but I do know that Fulham are a really big club.

The biggest.

[Sutekh]

Yawn.

Having sat with Forest fans at Wimbledon about 20 years ago I can say they are absolutely in bred freaks. It was like the hills have eyes vs Wrong Turn 2.

I can only imagine with that level of incestuous reproduction the proceeding years will not have been kind to the gene pool.

Not sure about this, but I do know that Fulham are a really big club.

The biggest.

What, bigger than Brighton?

[NewCorkSeth]

Not sure about this, but I do know that Fulham are a really big club.

The biggest.

What, bigger than Brighton?

Don't be silly. Cant compare the biggest pebble to the biggest mountain. Brighton are a whole different planet.

[Jagermesiter1871]

What have those fakes been saying?