Opposition fans back from the game - 24/25 page 225 onwards

[Zip]

There was a delay before he went down. With contact he goes down straight away. It was a very poor decision and with VAR it simply is not a penalty.

[Jagermesiter1871]

Don't know what replays you saw but the one I saw fairly clearly showed he went past Moore, no contact made and then swan dives over. It was about as clear a dive as you could get.

[Jagermesiter1871]

"It does amaze me skimming through there forums and to see they would have probably got a good result if they didnt have so many injuries. How we’re not all that as well.

Obviously must of missed a midfielder player playing at left back, first choice gk out, Onel, Mumba, Idah, Rupp and Placheta out, Dowell, Cantwell, Hugill and McClean all with lengthy spells out and not quite ready for 90mins. The mind does boggle"



Completely missing the point that a) we all know our squad is paper things especially Vs recently relegated and parachute payment Norwich and b) completely missing that Richards was out and we're playing a loaned CB at LB who was done for their dived pen. Not to mention Swift & Yiadom 2 of our best players over the last few years.

[Sutekh]

Brentford fans predictions here

https://griffinpark.org/index.php?threa ... ns.134639/

Fairly confident, unsurprisingly, seem more worried about Keith Stroud taking charge of the game though.

[WestYorksRoyal]

"It does amaze me skimming through there forums and to see they would have probably got a good result if they didnt have so many injuries. How we’re not all that as well.


Obviously must of missed a midfielder player playing at left back, first choice gk out, Onel, Mumba, Idah, Rupp and Placheta out, Dowell, Cantwell, Hugill and McClean all with lengthy spells out and not quite ready for 90mins. The mind does boggle"

Completely missing the point that a) we all know our squad is paper things especially Vs recently relegated and parachute payment Norwich and b) completely missing that Richards was out and we're playing a loaned CB at LB who was done for their dived pen. Not to mention Swift & Yiadom 2 of our best players over the last few years.

Yeh, those comments essentially emphasise what we've been saying, that as a relegated team their squad is better equipped for such an injury crisis than ours.

[Snowflake Royal]

Don't know what replays you saw but the one I saw fairly clearly showed he went past Moore, no contact made and then swan dives over. It was about as clear a dive as you could get.

All of three angles, there were none that showed clear distance between Moore and Aaron's boot. The one that would have been most useful had another player step into the way at precisely the moment it would have shown us.

There can't have been much, but it could have been there and there's no way the ref could be sure and same for VAR in my opinion. Feel free to post up a still that shows clean air between them.

[Snowball]

I watched real time on TV and at the instant of the action
shouted DIVE! The way he went down was ham-acting
and any player knows that.

As the ref went in I thought he was going to give a yellow.


As for the game itself, I'm surprised people aren't rating them higher.

In midfield and up front they were skilful, fast, full of energy
and barely gave us a moment's peace. Their little guy is VVG and Pukki
is an absolute star, clear Poem Quality. I'd say all the midfield and
attackers were top-notch. I thing they are nailed on for autos and
a very good bet to win the Championship.

They were clearly a very good side, and "sort-of" the better side on the night.

I say "sort of, because, in truth we were keeping them out, our keeper did his job
(two excellent saves and an important easier one that if he had spilled it was probably
a goal. Also they had two whistle past the post.

But their actual goals were gifts, and without them we might have nicked it 1-0

(Yes I know it's a different game, yadda-yadda)

We are definitely not getting a lot of luck. At Bournemouth we should have got back to 3-3
(centimetres) and the subsequent screw up put a false sheen on the game.

Then yesterday, a dumb accident, a VERY dodgy penalty, we score one and then their keeper
pulls of a great save at the death.

We wouldn't have deserved it, but we could easily have won that (and Norwich robbed)

Last year that would have been 0-4 to Norwich

We have a tidy side, quite plucky (and a shed-load of injuries, sure)... We look good for top eight and
have a very good chance of the PO's (either of those should be considered a success) but I think, overall
we lack that little bit, in particular energy and speed. We don't really play at pace. We need, say a Shane-
type speedster who knocks people about, or a Kebe in his Prime, and I think the manager has to work
on the team generally upping its tempo, even if only 5%

We have loads of skill. Just add a bit more zip. To make top six we will need to spend in January

[Zip]

I’m all for a bit more Zip.

[Sutekh]

I watched real time on TV and at the instant of the action
shouted DIVE! The way he went down was ham-acting
and any player knows that.

As the ref went in I thought he was going to give a yellow.


As for the game itself, I'm surprised people aren't rating them higher.

In midfield and up front they were skilful, fast, full of energy
and barely gave us a moment's peace. Their little guy is VVG and Pukki
is an absolute star, clear Poem Quality. I'd say all the midfield and
attackers were top-notch. I thing they are nailed on for autos and
a very good bet to win the Championship.

They were clearly a very good side, and "sort-of" the better side on the night.

I say "sort of, because, in truth we were keeping them out, our keeper did his job
(two excellent saves and an important easier one that if he had spilled it was probably
a goal. Also they had two whistle past the post.

But their actual goals were gifts, and without them we might have nicked it 1-0

(Yes I know it's a different game, yadda-yadda)

We are definitely not getting a lot of luck. At Bournemouth we should have got back to 3-3
(centimetres) and the subsequent screw up put a false sheen on the game.

Then yesterday, a dumb accident, a VERY dodgy penalty, we score one and then their keeper
pulls of a great save at the death.

We wouldn't have deserved it, but we could easily have won that (and Norwich robbed)

Last year that would have been 0-4 to Norwich

We have a tidy side, quite plucky (and a shed-load of injuries, sure)... We look good for top eight and
have a very good chance of the PO's (either of those should be considered a success) but I think, overall
we lack that little bit, in particular energy and speed. We don't really play at pace. We need, say a Shane-
type speedster who knocks people about, or a Kebe in his Prime, and I think the manager has to work
on the team generally upping its tempo, even if only 5%

We have loads of skill. Just add a bit more zip. To make top six we will need to spend in January

Getting a couple of very quick attacking players in January would change the dynamic as opponents then would have to be a bit more wary in when to press as one pass could have them in full panic mode.

[Hound]

I watched real time on TV and at the instant of the action
shouted DIVE! The way he went down was ham-acting
and any player knows that.

As the ref went in I thought he was going to give a yellow.


As for the game itself, I'm surprised people aren't rating them higher.

In midfield and up front they were skilful, fast, full of energy
and barely gave us a moment's peace. Their little guy is VVG and Pukki
is an absolute star, clear Poem Quality. I'd say all the midfield and
attackers were top-notch. I thing they are nailed on for autos and
a very good bet to win the Championship.

They were clearly a very good side, and "sort-of" the better side on the night.

I say "sort of, because, in truth we were keeping them out, our keeper did his job
(two excellent saves and an important easier one that if he had spilled it was probably
a goal. Also they had two whistle past the post.

But their actual goals were gifts, and without them we might have nicked it 1-0

(Yes I know it's a different game, yadda-yadda)

We are definitely not getting a lot of luck. At Bournemouth we should have got back to 3-3
(centimetres) and the subsequent screw up put a false sheen on the game.

Then yesterday, a dumb accident, a VERY dodgy penalty, we score one and then their keeper
pulls of a great save at the death.

We wouldn't have deserved it, but we could easily have won that (and Norwich robbed)

Last year that would have been 0-4 to Norwich

We have a tidy side, quite plucky (and a shed-load of injuries, sure)... We look good for top eight and
have a very good chance of the PO's (either of those should be considered a success) but I think, overall
we lack that little bit, in particular energy and speed. We don't really play at pace. We need, say a Shane-
type speedster who knocks people about, or a Kebe in his Prime, and I think the manager has to work
on the team generally upping its tempo, even if only 5%

We have loads of skill. Just add a bit more zip. To make top six we will need to spend in January

Getting a couple of very quick attacking players in January would change the dynamic as opponents then would have to be a bit more wary in when to press as one pass could have them in full panic mode.

Meite and Joao are both very quick. Baldock isn’t slow. Unless the players you are bringing in are Olympic sprinters it won’t make any difference

[bcubed]

Don't know what replays you saw but the one I saw fairly clearly showed he went past Moore, no contact made and then swan dives over. It was about as clear a dive as you could get.

All of three angles, there were none that showed clear distance between Moore and Aaron's boot. The one that would have been most useful had another player step into the way at precisely the moment it would have shown us.

There can't have been much, but it could have been there and there's no way the ref could be sure and same for VAR in my opinion. Feel free to post up a still that shows clean air between them.

SR, I have found we seem to have been on the same wavelength a lot recently, but I can't agree that this is a natural fall from a tackle.
I think it is what we have become accustomed to, because let's face it every forward goes down like this when near a defender, if they think they can get a penalty.

In principle, it is surely something that should be removed from the game. I think the normal falling down motion after a tackle has been forgotten. Perhaps refs need to watch a Sunday League game to see what happens?

In any case it is perfectly clear that he has launched himself unnaturally into the air and it would be nice if he could be given retrospective punishment of some sort.

Of course that wont happen (I don't think FIFA are interested in any meaningful changes to the rules) so in the mean time we can only deal with it via VAR.

Which is shit.

So yeh definite penalty!

[Snowball]

I watched real time on TV and at the instant of the action
shouted DIVE! The way he went down was ham-acting
and any player knows that.

As the ref went in I thought he was going to give a yellow.


As for the game itself, I'm surprised people aren't rating them higher.

In midfield and up front they were skilful, fast, full of energy
and barely gave us a moment's peace. Their little guy is VVG and Pukki
is an absolute star, clear Poem Quality. I'd say all the midfield and
attackers were top-notch. I thing they are nailed on for autos and
a very good bet to win the Championship.

They were clearly a very good side, and "sort-of" the better side on the night.

I say "sort of, because, in truth we were keeping them out, our keeper did his job
(two excellent saves and an important easier one that if he had spilled it was probably
a goal. Also they had two whistle past the post.

But their actual goals were gifts, and without them we might have nicked it 1-0

(Yes I know it's a different game, yadda-yadda)

We are definitely not getting a lot of luck. At Bournemouth we should have got back to 3-3
(centimetres) and the subsequent screw up put a false sheen on the game.

Then yesterday, a dumb accident, a VERY dodgy penalty, we score one and then their keeper
pulls of a great save at the death.

We wouldn't have deserved it, but we could easily have won that (and Norwich robbed)

Last year that would have been 0-4 to Norwich

We have a tidy side, quite plucky (and a shed-load of injuries, sure)... We look good for top eight and
have a very good chance of the PO's (either of those should be considered a success) but I think, overall
we lack that little bit, in particular energy and speed. We don't really play at pace. We need, say a Shane-
type speedster who knocks people about, or a Kebe in his Prime, and I think the manager has to work
on the team generally upping its tempo, even if only 5%

We have loads of skill. Just add a bit more zip. To make top six we will need to spend in January

Getting a couple of very quick attacking players in January would change the dynamic as opponents then would have to be a bit more wary in when to press as one pass could have them in full panic mode.

Very Good Point. A lurking Shane Long (back in his Prime, not sure if he's still quick) would get a fair whack of goal on that basis

(or a Shane Long TYPE


I wish we had a few players who clattered CBs like Log and Hunt did so beautifully

We're a bit nice.

[Snowball]

I watched real time on TV and at the instant of the action
shouted DIVE! The way he went down was ham-acting
and any player knows that.

As the ref went in I thought he was going to give a yellow.


As for the game itself, I'm surprised people aren't rating them higher.

In midfield and up front they were skilful, fast, full of energy
and barely gave us a moment's peace. Their little guy is VVG and Pukki
is an absolute star, clear Poem Quality. I'd say all the midfield and
attackers were top-notch. I thing they are nailed on for autos and
a very good bet to win the Championship.

They were clearly a very good side, and "sort-of" the better side on the night.

I say "sort of, because, in truth we were keeping them out, our keeper did his job
(two excellent saves and an important easier one that if he had spilled it was probably
a goal. Also they had two whistle past the post.

But their actual goals were gifts, and without them we might have nicked it 1-0

(Yes I know it's a different game, yadda-yadda)

We are definitely not getting a lot of luck. At Bournemouth we should have got back to 3-3
(centimetres) and the subsequent screw up put a false sheen on the game.

Then yesterday, a dumb accident, a VERY dodgy penalty, we score one and then their keeper
pulls of a great save at the death.

We wouldn't have deserved it, but we could easily have won that (and Norwich robbed)

Last year that would have been 0-4 to Norwich

We have a tidy side, quite plucky (and a shed-load of injuries, sure)... We look good for top eight and
have a very good chance of the PO's (either of those should be considered a success) but I think, overall
we lack that little bit, in particular energy and speed. We don't really play at pace. We need, say a Shane-
type speedster who knocks people about, or a Kebe in his Prime, and I think the manager has to work
on the team generally upping its tempo, even if only 5%

We have loads of skill. Just add a bit more zip. To make top six we will need to spend in January

Getting a couple of very quick attacking players in January would change the dynamic as opponents then would have to be a bit more wary in when to press as one pass could have them in full panic mode.

Meite and Joao are both very quick. Baldock isn’t slow. Unless the players you are bringing in are Olympic sprinters it won’t make any difference

I don't see either as speed merchants, especially the first 5-10 yards.

They are not cart-horses and Meite can go pretty quickly if he gets a long run up

But neither are "electric" off the mark, like say Kebe, or Long (IMO)

[Snowball]

Don't know what replays you saw but the one I saw fairly clearly showed he went past Moore, no contact made and then swan dives over. It was about as clear a dive as you could get.

All of three angles, there were none that showed clear distance between Moore and Aaron's boot. The one that would have been most useful had another player step into the way at precisely the moment it would have shown us.

There can't have been much, but it could have been there and there's no way the ref could be sure and same for VAR in my opinion. Feel free to post up a still that shows clean air between them.

SR, I have found we seem to have been on the same wavelength a lot recently, but I can't agree that this is a natural fall from a tackle.
I think it is what we have become accustomed to, because let's face it every forward goes down like this when near a defender, if they think they can get a penalty.

In principle, it is surely something that should be removed from the game. I think the normal falling down motion after a tackle has been forgotten. Perhaps refs need to watch a Sunday League game to see what happens?

In any case it is perfectly clear that he has launched himself unnaturally into the air and it would be nice if he could be given retrospective punishment of some sort.

Of course that wont happen (I don't think FIFA are interested in any meaningful changes to the rules) so in the mean time we can only deal with it via VAR.

Which is shit.

So yeh definite penalty!

I would love to see sendings-off for apparent dives (including our own players), and a message/new law something like, "Players, even when touched must take every effort to stay on their feet."

The battered CF keeping on his feet (and getting a shot off) is surely what we want to see?

Even when we get a penalty (one that's a cheat, dodgy or "a bit soft") I feel deflated, even if it means we might now win the game.

I'd rather miss getting some pens (level playing field obviously) and have strikers have to be "real men" again.

Cue John Charles

[SCIAG]

Don't know what replays you saw but the one I saw fairly clearly showed he went past Moore, no contact made and then swan dives over. It was about as clear a dive as you could get.

All of three angles, there were none that showed clear distance between Moore and Aaron's boot. The one that would have been most useful had another player step into the way at precisely the moment it would have shown us.

There can't have been much, but it could have been there and there's no way the ref could be sure and same for VAR in my opinion. Feel free to post up a still that shows clean air between them.

SR, I have found we seem to have been on the same wavelength a lot recently, but I can't agree that this is a natural fall from a tackle.
I think it is what we have become accustomed to, because let's face it every forward goes down like this when near a defender, if they think they can get a penalty.

In principle, it is surely something that should be removed from the game. I think the normal falling down motion after a tackle has been forgotten. Perhaps refs need to watch a Sunday League game to see what happens?

In any case it is perfectly clear that he has launched himself unnaturally into the air and it would be nice if he could be given retrospective punishment of some sort.

Of course that wont happen (I don't think FIFA are interested in any meaningful changes to the rules) so in the mean time we can only deal with it via VAR.

Which is shit.

So yeh definite penalty!

Three things.

Firstly we’re going through the most turbulent period of law changes in the game’s history.

Secondly retrospective punishment is not an IFAB matter, but a matter for the FA and competition authorities.

Thirdly, diving is punished retrospectively in England: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39962886 although in practice it is difficult to get a panel to agree that a player has engaged in simulation.

[bcubed]

All of three angles, there were none that showed clear distance between Moore and Aaron's boot. The one that would have been most useful had another player step into the way at precisely the moment it would have shown us.

There can't have been much, but it could have been there and there's no way the ref could be sure and same for VAR in my opinion. Feel free to post up a still that shows clean air between them.

SR, I have found we seem to have been on the same wavelength a lot recently, but I can't agree that this is a natural fall from a tackle.
I think it is what we have become accustomed to, because let's face it every forward goes down like this when near a defender, if they think they can get a penalty.

In principle, it is surely something that should be removed from the game. I think the normal falling down motion after a tackle has been forgotten. Perhaps refs need to watch a Sunday League game to see what happens?

In any case it is perfectly clear that he has launched himself unnaturally into the air and it would be nice if he could be given retrospective punishment of some sort.

Of course that wont happen (I don't think FIFA are interested in any meaningful changes to the rules) so in the mean time we can only deal with it via VAR.

Which is shit.

So yeh definite penalty!

Three things.

Firstly we’re going through the most turbulent period of law changes in the game’s history.

Secondly retrospective punishment is not an IFAB matter, but a matter for the FA and competition authorities.

Thirdly, diving is punished retrospectively in England: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39962886 although in practice it is difficult to get a panel to agree that a player has engaged in simulation.

I did say meaningful

And the fact that retrospective punishment isn't handed out to any extent indicates the process doesn't work, as its there for everyone to see on a regular basis

[bcubed]

All of three angles, there were none that showed clear distance between Moore and Aaron's boot. The one that would have been most useful had another player step into the way at precisely the moment it would have shown us.

There can't have been much, but it could have been there and there's no way the ref could be sure and same for VAR in my opinion. Feel free to post up a still that shows clean air between them.

SR, I have found we seem to have been on the same wavelength a lot recently, but I can't agree that this is a natural fall from a tackle.
I think it is what we have become accustomed to, because let's face it every forward goes down like this when near a defender, if they think they can get a penalty.

In principle, it is surely something that should be removed from the game. I think the normal falling down motion after a tackle has been forgotten. Perhaps refs need to watch a Sunday League game to see what happens?

In any case it is perfectly clear that he has launched himself unnaturally into the air and it would be nice if he could be given retrospective punishment of some sort.

Of course that wont happen (I don't think FIFA are interested in any meaningful changes to the rules) so in the mean time we can only deal with it via VAR.

Which is shit.

So yeh definite penalty!

I would love to see sendings-off for apparent dives (including our own players), and a message/new law something like, "Players, even when touched must take every effort to stay on their feet."

The battered CF keeping on his feet (and getting a shot off) is surely what we want to see?

Even when we get a penalty (one that's a cheat, dodgy or "a bit soft") I feel deflated, even if it means we might now win the game.

I'd rather miss getting some pens (level playing field obviously) and have strikers have to be "real men" again.

Cue John Charles

Yep totally agree

My solution would be to tell refs if it looks anything like a dive they shouldn't award a free kick/penalty
(You'd first have to remind them what a natural fall looks like)

Not sure I hate us getting a penalty, but I don't look forward to us playing against ten men
I think that always ruins the game as a spectacle whoever is playing

This is an example of a rule that could be changed. You never see a situation in American Football, for example, where one team plays against another with one man less. Reason, no one wants to see that (and it would probably be ridiculously one-sided to boot). Players can get ejected but another player takes their place. You could do this in football too. The team losing the man is still punished, as a lesser (possibly only marginally) player is on the pitch, but it doesn't ruin the game.

[Sutekh]

SR, I have found we seem to have been on the same wavelength a lot recently, but I can't agree that this is a natural fall from a tackle.
I think it is what we have become accustomed to, because let's face it every forward goes down like this when near a defender, if they think they can get a penalty.

In principle, it is surely something that should be removed from the game. I think the normal falling down motion after a tackle has been forgotten. Perhaps refs need to watch a Sunday League game to see what happens?

In any case it is perfectly clear that he has launched himself unnaturally into the air and it would be nice if he could be given retrospective punishment of some sort.

Of course that wont happen (I don't think FIFA are interested in any meaningful changes to the rules) so in the mean time we can only deal with it via VAR.

Which is shit.

So yeh definite penalty!

Three things.

Firstly we’re going through the most turbulent period of law changes in the game’s history.

Secondly retrospective punishment is not an IFAB matter, but a matter for the FA and competition authorities.

Thirdly, diving is punished retrospectively in England: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39962886 although in practice it is difficult to get a panel to agree that a player has engaged in simulation.

I did say meaningful

And the fact that retrospective punishment isn't handed out to any extent indicates the process doesn't work, as its there for everyone to see on a regular basis

Then there’s the ridiculous comment you sometimes get from the FA/FL that the ref covered an incident in his report or took action against a player for an incident so they can’t change it. Funnily enough though if a ref sends someone off the authorities will overturn the division if a successful appeal is made.

[Snowflake Royal]

Don't know what replays you saw but the one I saw fairly clearly showed he went past Moore, no contact made and then swan dives over. It was about as clear a dive as you could get.

All of three angles, there were none that showed clear distance between Moore and Aaron's boot. The one that would have been most useful had another player step into the way at precisely the moment it would have shown us.

There can't have been much, but it could have been there and there's no way the ref could be sure and same for VAR in my opinion. Feel free to post up a still that shows clean air between them.

SR, I have found we seem to have been on the same wavelength a lot recently, but I can't agree that this is a natural fall from a tackle.
I think it is what we have become accustomed to, because let's face it every forward goes down like this when near a defender, if they think they can get a penalty.

In principle, it is surely something that should be removed from the game. I think the normal falling down motion after a tackle has been forgotten. Perhaps refs need to watch a Sunday League game to see what happens?

In any case it is perfectly clear that he has launched himself unnaturally into the air and it would be nice if he could be given retrospective punishment of some sort.

Of course that wont happen (I don't think FIFA are interested in any meaningful changes to the rules) so in the mean time we can only deal with it via VAR.

Which is shit.

So yeh definite penalty!

I think there's a misunderstanding here.

I think he probably dived / made the most of it. It looks suspicious and there's certainly no footage showing conclusive and significant contact. My point has been that there's equally no footage that definitively shows no contact and that I think the ref has an incredibly hard job calling that anything but a penalty.

I think there's a bit too much of fans thinking they're anatomists who specialise in the biomechanical analysis of genuine falling and deciding what can and can be a genuine fall or not. I can't be arsed to go back and watch again and again, but to my mind whilst it looked exaggerated and theatrical, it wasn't completely unrealistic.

The problem with punishment for simulation, is how do you know? What's a genuine attempt to con and what's emphasising something. Or worse still, what's avoiding contact to not get hurt that means going over as a result? Almost impossible to judge live on the field. And almost worse to judge on screen because slowing things down completely changes they dynamic of how they look and what impact a touch can have.

[Snowball]

The answer should be to say "In order to award a penalty you must feel CERTAIN it was a penalty.

Same with handball

If in doubt, don't award

I would rather it was harder to win a penalty
and there were less of them