MATCHWATCH : Barnsley (a)

[URZZZZ]

Quick count up of results this season, hopefully counted correctly

Record when Ejaria has started

7 wins, 4 draws, 6 defeats. 25 points from 17 games - basically 1.5 points a game

Record when he hasn’t started

22 games, 15 points. I’m sure it’s not a coincidence

And none of those hammerings came when he started either

I don’t think the goals scored per game with/without Ejaria would vary too differently but I’d guess that the goals conceded looks a lot healthier with him in the XI. As you say, didn’t start any of the games at Huddersfield, Blackpool, QPR, Fulham (H) etc etc. Obviously slightly misleading with us conceding two goals whilst on the pitch at Blackpool but point still stands

Think his assets are easily misunderstood by people. Moving him into the centre negates his main strengths, simply isn’t creative/doesn’t score enough as the out and out CAM. No coincidence that for the most part, four successive managers have played him on the left

[Millsy]

And flipping hell, watching the Barnsley goal again on slow replay I see now yet again what I've moaned about at least twice re: Holmes being pulled out of position and not being there. I can't remember what game it was earlier when we conceded and everyone was on the back line except Holmes who was up somewhere in midfield almost, so a ball was put behind him into empty space. Same thing happened another game and I referred to the first instance saying it's been repeated.

So I'm shocked (+/- not surprised!) to see in this case 3rd time now, and the reason TMac wasn't on the leftback (he did glance to look to cover the right winger, but then *had* to follow the man centrally) is because Holmes had run forward out of position towards midfield and so was AWOL in the back line, so TMac had to cover leaving the right winger free.

I'm not a defender so don't know if' it's normal for one of a pair of CBs to always come out into midfield regularly it's the third time now with Holmes where a goal has resulted each time. Presumably it's less likely when you have two central defensive midfielders sitting in front of the defence, which is how we've played for months.

Just putting it out there. I'm sure Ince/Rae/Gilkes know what they're doing.

[SCIAG]

I see what you’re talking about. I think it’s an exaggeration to say he stepped into midfield. He stepped up to apply pressure to the striker in the hole. That was probably the wrong decision but I don’t think it leads to the goal.

[SWLR]

Ejaria @ Fulham... can take the rest of the season off in my mind.

Put him in a tight spot with two players on him, and he does stuff when you just look and go "how?". With space and time to take on a full back (like at Barnsley) he lacks the know how to consistently beat them and a get a cross in (at which Little was the master)

[Millsy]

I see what you’re talking about. I think it’s an exaggeration to say he stepped into midfield. He stepped up to apply pressure to the striker in the hole. That was probably the wrong decision but I don’t think it leads to the goal.

Thx SCIAG, always useful to have your input on tactical matters. Yes you're right I exaggerated midfield last two times too, but actually you're right what I actually mean is a foray far more forward than I'd expect and wherever it was, it meant he wasn't at the back line, or able to follow the man who then TMac had to follow. I've corrected my post.

Sure it wasn't as blatantly leading to the goal that I think the other occasions were, from memory, but I think it had a clear knock-on effect. The goal occurred ultimately because TMac wasn't doing his thing acting as a LB. I accused TMac of cocking up and Ian rightly pointed out he had to go central. Why did he have to go central? Because Holmes wasn't there. Where was Holmes? Yet again dicking around several yards in front of the defensive line. Holmes forward --> hole in CD --> TMac has to cover hole --> no left back --> goal.

Yes, Ejaria could've left the full back to help out, but that would leave the FB free to run in, and yes Nyland should have come off his line I think, but ultimately all of this was brought on by there being another gaping hole in CD. And going further back of course Swift lost the ball. Like any analysis there's often a catalogue of mini cockups but for me Holmes yet again being pulled forward is what I see and is a contributing factor, now for the third time.

I'm increasingly of the opinion Holmes is not that great, sorry.

[Hendo]

I like the work you have done Hendo , but I’m not proven wrong until the match is over . I’ve not based my opinion on past records , just on what I have witnessed . I think he struggles in games to be up with the pace of play and to be in the right place , I believe he is likely to panic when he again finds a player going away from him in a dangerous area , in a big game like this . Let’s wait and see .

But the fact that on past records, he doesn't actually get booked that often would surely be at odds with what you have seen?

He also makes less than 1 foul a game on average, which would indicate that he is actually quite good at tackling or being in the right position to clear the ball.

What evidence do you have that he is likely to panic?

So, 3 tackles (joint 3rd most in the side), 5 interceptions (the most in the side), 1 clearance (joint most in the side), 1 blocked shot (joint most in the side), 0 fouls (1 of only 3 outfield players who didn't make any fouls), match rating of 6.98 (4th in the side). https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1554425/LiveStatistics/England-Championship-2021-2022-Barnsley-Reading

Happy to be proven wrong?

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I see what you’re talking about. I think it’s an exaggeration to say he stepped into midfield. He stepped up to apply pressure to the striker in the hole. That was probably the wrong decision but I don’t think it leads to the goal.

Thx SCIAG, always useful to have your input on tactical matters. Yes you're right I exaggerated midfield last two times too, but actually you're right what I actually mean is a foray far more forward than I'd expect and wherever it was, it meant he wasn't at the back line, or able to follow the man who then TMac had to follow. I've corrected my post.

Sure it wasn't as blatantly leading to the goal that I think the other occasions were, from memory, but I think it had a clear knock-on effect. The goal occurred ultimately because TMac wasn't doing his thing acting as a LB. I accused TMac of cocking up and Ian rightly pointed out he had to go central. Why did he have to go central? Because Holmes wasn't there. Where was Holmes? Yet again dicking around several yards in front of the defensive line. Holmes forward --> hole in CD --> TMac has to cover hole --> no left back --> goal.

Yes, Ejaria could've left the full back to help out, but that would leave the FB free to run in, and yes Nyland should have come off his line I think, but ultimately all of this was brought on by there being another gaping hole in CD. And going further back of course Swift lost the ball. Like any analysis there's often a catalogue of mini cockups but for me Holmes yet again being pulled forward is what I see and is a contributing factor, now for the third time.

I'm increasingly of the opinion Holmes is not that great, sorry.

I'm not putting it down to Holmes because I don't think it's wrong to go and pressure the forward in that scenario, they just worked the overload out wide and if he doesn't step in, their forward turns 20 yards from goal. Statistically speaking, a forward will have a better chance of scoring centrally, 20 yards from goal as opposed to where Morris was. I don't put blame on the goalkeeper either really, it was a good finish. It did seem to take a while to go in, but he's put it near enough in the first square of netting in the far corner, not many goalkeepers at this standard save it to be fair. I don't think I'd pinpoint a couple of individuals, more a collective defensive effort could have stopped the goal there. You could say McIntyre could have been closer to Morris for the shot, but I wouldn't place blame on him for that when it could have been prevented elsewhere.

In the first half, I didn't think Holmes was particularly great. It's not that he did anything wrong, but sometimes failed to get a proper initial contact on the ball, such as a header, whereas someone like Dann who is slightly taller and stronger with more experience may well have done. It was just better for us that the scrappy bits between Morris and Holmes throughout never materialised and we were able to pick up the 2nd balls or recover the ball quickly from those situations. Morris proved to be a bit of a handful for him, but he did ok in general, but I can see why you'd say you don't think he's that great, he's certainly not what he was last season, such is the case with most players in fairness.

[SCIAG]

I see what you’re talking about. I think it’s an exaggeration to say he stepped into midfield. He stepped up to apply pressure to the striker in the hole. That was probably the wrong decision but I don’t think it leads to the goal.

Thx SCIAG, always useful to have your input on tactical matters. Yes you're right I exaggerated midfield last two times too, but actually you're right what I actually mean is a foray far more forward than I'd expect and wherever it was, it meant he wasn't at the back line, or able to follow the man who then TMac had to follow. I've corrected my post.

Sure it wasn't as blatantly leading to the goal that I think the other occasions were, from memory, but I think it had a clear knock-on effect. The goal occurred ultimately because TMac wasn't doing his thing acting as a LB. I accused TMac of cocking up and Ian rightly pointed out he had to go central. Why did he have to go central? Because Holmes wasn't there. Where was Holmes? Yet again dicking around several yards in front of the defensive line. Holmes forward --> hole in CD --> TMac has to cover hole --> no left back --> goal.

Yes, Ejaria could've left the full back to help out, but that would leave the FB free to run in, and yes Nyland should have come off his line I think, but ultimately all of this was brought on by there being another gaping hole in CD. And going further back of course Swift lost the ball. Like any analysis there's often a catalogue of mini cockups but for me Holmes yet again being pulled forward is what I see and is a contributing factor, now for the third time.

I'm increasingly of the opinion Holmes is not that great, sorry.

Having watched the video again, you’re right. McIntyre is pulled inside to cover the runner from midfield and that creates room for the man outside him. Not McIntyre’s fault, Holmes created the situation.

I’m no more qualified than you are to comment on defensive shapes (suspect everything I know about football could be taught in a crash-course weekend) but you’ll notice Morrison starts to step up and then eases off when he sees how hard Holmes has committed. Given how far over the defence is, I think Morrison should have been the one tracking the striker and Holmes should have dropped. A hole between Holmes and Yiadom wouldn’t have been as dangerous.

In Holmes’ defence:
- he’s young (duh, but also, so what?)
- he’s playing on the opposite side to what he’s used to - might have reacted instinctively thinking he was the right sided centre back
- due to his size, aggression is often the right decision, and he’ll usually be partnered with someone more mobile or tactical who can cover for him. Morrison is not an ideal partner for him.

It’s definitely Holmes’ mistake, you’re right. I think he needs to improve his positioning. The right set-up might cover his deficiencies (Cooper at Millwall) but right now we don’t have that. He has generally been performing well lately imo but if you’re responsible for most goals being conceded it becomes reasonable to ask questions.

[Snowflake Royal]

And flipping hell, watching the Barnsley goal again on slow replay I see now yet again what I've moaned about at least twice re: Holmes being pulled out of position and not being there. I can't remember what game it was earlier when we conceded and everyone was on the back line except Holmes who was up somewhere in midfield almost, so a ball was put behind him into empty space. Same thing happened another game and I referred to the first instance saying it's been repeated.

So I'm shocked (+/- not surprised!) to see in this case 3rd time now, and the reason TMac wasn't on the leftback (he did glance to look to cover the right winger, but then *had* to follow the man centrally) is because Holmes had run forward out of position towards midfield and so was AWOL in the back line, so TMac had to cover leaving the right winger free.

I'm not a defender so don't know if' it's normal for one of a pair of CBs to always come out into midfield regularly it's the third time now with Holmes where a goal has resulted each time. Presumably it's less likely when you have two central defensive midfielders sitting in front of the defence, which is how we've played for months.

Just putting it out there. I'm sure Ince/Rae/Gilkes know what they're doing.

Partly because midfield are so often absent from a striker dropping deep or a midfielder pushing forward.

Morrison has done it too. They wouldn't need to with a present and clued in midfield they could hand over to.

Damned if you do, damned if you dont. Leave them be and you have a forward in acres who can receive the ball and then run. where he wants with it.

[Snowflake Royal]

I see what you’re talking about. I think it’s an exaggeration to say he stepped into midfield. He stepped up to apply pressure to the striker in the hole. That was probably the wrong decision but I don’t think it leads to the goal.

Thx SCIAG, always useful to have your input on tactical matters. Yes you're right I exaggerated midfield last two times too, but actually you're right what I actually mean is a foray far more forward than I'd expect and wherever it was, it meant he wasn't at the back line, or able to follow the man who then TMac had to follow. I've corrected my post.

Sure it wasn't as blatantly leading to the goal that I think the other occasions were, from memory, but I think it had a clear knock-on effect. The goal occurred ultimately because TMac wasn't doing his thing acting as a LB. I accused TMac of cocking up and Ian rightly pointed out he had to go central. Why did he have to go central? Because Holmes wasn't there. Where was Holmes? Yet again dicking around several yards in front of the defensive line. Holmes forward --> hole in CD --> TMac has to cover hole --> no left back --> goal.

Yes, Ejaria could've left the full back to help out, but that would leave the FB free to run in, and yes Nyland should have come off his line I think, but ultimately all of this was brought on by there being another gaping hole in CD. And going further back of course Swift lost the ball. Like any analysis there's often a catalogue of mini cockups but for me Holmes yet again being pulled forward is what I see and is a contributing factor, now for the third time.

I'm increasingly of the opinion Holmes is not that great, sorry.

Having watched the video again, you’re right. McIntyre is pulled inside to cover the runner from midfield and that creates room for the man outside him. Not McIntyre’s fault, Holmes created the situation.

I’m no more qualified than you are to comment on defensive shapes (suspect everything I know about football could be taught in a crash-course weekend) but you’ll notice Morrison starts to step up and then eases off when he sees how hard Holmes has committed. Given how far over the defence is, I think Morrison should have been the one tracking the striker and Holmes should have dropped. A hole between Holmes and Yiadom wouldn’t have been as dangerous.

In Holmes’ defence:
- he’s young (duh, but also, so what?)
- he’s playing on the opposite side to what he’s used to - might have reacted instinctively thinking he was the right sided centre back
- due to his size, aggression is often the right decision, and he’ll usually be partnered with someone more mobile or tactical who can cover for him. Morrison is not an ideal partner for him.

It’s definitely Holmes’ mistake, you’re right. I think he needs to improve his positioning. The right set-up might cover his deficiencies (Cooper at Millwall) but right now we don’t have that. He has generally been performing well lately imo but if you’re responsible for most goals being conceded it becomes reasonable to ask questions.

It's a problem caused by a lack of cover.

Iirc Swift loses the ball, so we're not in defensive shape.

When you have a turnover, and a striker drop deep you need one of these things to happen:

1) midfielder drops to pick up striker, defence holds shape
2) centreback steps up, midfielder drops in to cover, LB holds position
3) centeback steps up, LB tucks inside to cover, midfielder drops into LB to cover
4) centreback steps up, LB tucks inside to cover, left winger drops to cover LB.


What we actually got was:

Centreback steps forward, LB tucks in to cover, midfield and left wing are no where.

I'm not sure Centreback and LB hold position and allow easy possession in front of them and a run and shot at goal is any better. And that's the consequence of the only other option to Holmes and McIntyre. Maybe Morro could and should go and that would solve. Would need to look again

Makes LB and CB look at fault, but imo the problem is further forward. I think this is true of a lot of our goals conceded. The defence has to lose shape to cover and midfield fails to protect them.

[SCIAG]

Midfield is definitely important but they call it “the hole” for a reason. The midfield also need to be tracking runners from the opposition midfield and usually can’t be worrying about the striker. Leigertwood used to be excellent at picking the striker up in that situation but he played in four promotion-winning teams iirc, it’s not in the skill set of the “typical” midfielder.

My personal view is that allowing the striker time there is less risky than closing down and creating a big hole in the defence. There isn’t much threat of a goal from that range and you can still try to block the shot. I don’t know if that’s actually borne out by the data.

Haven’t seen the turnover but that probably plays a role. Maybe we don’t concede if Drinkwater and Laurent (and the others) are properly set. But even allowing for that, my gut says Holmes made the wrong decision.

[Snowflake Royal]

Midfield is definitely important but they call it “the hole” for a reason. The midfield also need to be tracking runners from the opposition midfield and usually can’t be worrying about the striker. Leigertwood used to be excellent at picking the striker up in that situation but he played in four promotion-winning teams iirc, it’s not in the skill set of the “typical” midfielder.

My personal view is that allowing the striker time there is less risky than closing down and creating a big hole in the defence. There isn’t much threat of a goal from that range and you can still try to block the shot. I don’t know if that’s actually borne out by the data.

Haven’t seen the turnover but that probably plays a role. Maybe we don’t concede if Drinkwater and Laurent (and the others) are properly set. But even allowing for that, my gut says Holmes made the wrong decision.

I can see that. Obviously, if Swift doesn't fanny around and lose it to create a break there's no problem. Iirc. But we do need to be better at dealing with it. And our CBs do charge forward too much.

[Royal_jimmy]

Last thing we need is another discussion about keeper frailties but is it just me or could Nyland have done better for their goal?

He loves to stay very close to his line didn't come out at all to narrow the angle despite the shot being telegraphed for what felt like years.

Exactly what I said as it happens for the Bournemouth goal.

Goalkeeping 101 is to come out as much as possible to narrow the angle, at least it was in my day before I got converted to a winger. Yes there's a player to the right in each case but could have been cleverer with the angles.

Can't wait for a truly decent keeper between the sticks.

Jury is still out for me. But he looks better than Southwood so far

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Midfield is definitely important but they call it “the hole” for a reason. The midfield also need to be tracking runners from the opposition midfield and usually can’t be worrying about the striker. Leigertwood used to be excellent at picking the striker up in that situation but he played in four promotion-winning teams iirc, it’s not in the skill set of the “typical” midfielder.

My personal view is that allowing the striker time there is less risky than closing down and creating a big hole in the defence. There isn’t much threat of a goal from that range and you can still try to block the shot. I don’t know if that’s actually borne out by the data.

Haven’t seen the turnover but that probably plays a role. Maybe we don’t concede if Drinkwater and Laurent (and the others) are properly set. But even allowing for that, my gut says Holmes made the wrong decision.

I wouldn't necessarily say it's a "wrong decision" to be tight to the forward, but obviously it depends on the situation. If a CB does go to engage, then it's important that the other CB and full backs (if in position) narrow up and that midfielders track runners from deep. If it goes wide, that's better than having big gaps in central areas.

It's just a shame we don't really have a tall or strong midfielder anymore (Laurent isn't exactly "weak" but not tall either). I've seen many teams end up playing with a tall and/or strong midfielder in front of their defenders who can screen balls into the forward, particularly when we play with Joao and go direct. I remember the Millwall game last year when it was George Evans I believe who did that job and Joao was completely non-existent. Having that type of midfielder that can screen long balls or even having a dedicated defensive midfielder (I know Rino is but he usually plays in a pair rather than sitting behind 2 midfielders is my point) could help that issue of our CB's stepping out.

David Moyes at Everton used to talk about that a lot during his early days at Everton. Lee Carsley used to play in front of Alan Stubbs and David Weir because they lacked pace and he didn't' want them getting dragged out of position and then having their lack of pace exposed, so Lee Carsley used to screen the forwards and if the forward ever dropped off then he'd be passed from the CB to Carsley.

[Hendo]

People again complaining on twitter how much we're celebrating a goal. Get fucked.

[Snowflake Royal]

People again complaining on twitter how much we're celebrating a goal. Get fucked.

I punched the air and said "Yes!" From my sofa, which is very unusual.

That goal was basically the difference between relegation and survival imo. Sod anyone who thinks that draw isn't worth celebrating a lot

[boycey]

Was a proper goal celebration that.
I rode a man in a CP company jacket from row Y down to the front concourse bit.

[Stranded]

People again complaining on twitter how much we're celebrating a goal. Get fucked.

I punched the air and said "Yes!" From my sofa, which is very unusual.

That goal was basically the difference between relegation and survival imo. Sod anyone who thinks that draw isn't worth celebrating a lot

Exactly, I accidentally punched a kitchen cupboard as I punched the air. Doesn't matter where we are, why we're there or whatever. Football is about moments, that was a big moment in the terms of this season, however shit it has been.

The view seems to be over there, you've been shit so how dare you celebrate like that. It's because we've been shit that that was a big goal, the player know that hence the outpouring of emotion - which apparently we want our players to show - unless they've been shit, in which case they cannot show any emotion - which I will have a go at them about if we don't get a result.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

People again complaining on twitter how much we're celebrating a goal. Get fucked.

I punched the air and said "Yes!" From my sofa, which is very unusual.

That goal was basically the difference between relegation and survival imo. Sod anyone who thinks that draw isn't worth celebrating a lot

Exactly, I accidentally punched a kitchen cupboard as I punched the air. Doesn't matter where we are, why we're there or whatever. Football is about moments, that was a big moment in the terms of this season, however shit it has been.

The view seems to be over there, you've been shit so how dare you celebrate like that. It's because we've been shit that that was a big goal, the player know that hence the outpouring of emotion - which apparently we want our players to show - unless they've been shit, in which case they cannot show any emotion - which I will have a go at them about if we don't get a result.

The away end on Saturday was in raptures as the goal went in, as it should be, why wouldn't you celebrate a goal, especially when it comes relatively late on in a game of importance. I've had digs at me about "celebrating a draw", when the overriding feeling is we've figuratively won that particular fixture by not losing.

[Hendo]

I punched the air and said "Yes!" From my sofa, which is very unusual.

That goal was basically the difference between relegation and survival imo. Sod anyone who thinks that draw isn't worth celebrating a lot

Exactly, I accidentally punched a kitchen cupboard as I punched the air. Doesn't matter where we are, why we're there or whatever. Football is about moments, that was a big moment in the terms of this season, however shit it has been.

The view seems to be over there, you've been shit so how dare you celebrate like that. It's because we've been shit that that was a big goal, the player know that hence the outpouring of emotion - which apparently we want our players to show - unless they've been shit, in which case they cannot show any emotion - which I will have a go at them about if we don't get a result.

The away end on Saturday was in raptures as the goal went in, as it should be, why wouldn't you celebrate a goal, especially when it comes relatively late on in a game of importance. I've had digs at me about "celebrating a draw", when the overriding feeling is we've figuratively won that particular fixture by not losing.

Absolutely agreed with all of this. Just something small that really winds me up.