Stoke show RFC how to run a Real Football Club

[Royal Rother]

The opinion that it is out of character is absolutely fine.

The opinion that Coppell had lied about it is not.

In my opinion.

[Svlad Cjelli]

I'm not sure it is out of character for SJM, because if you base his behaviour on times of high income, when in the PL, you have very little established pattern of behaviour to go on.

And we all know that in so many other ways the way SSC worked as a manager is very different to the way the majority of other managers work, so I don't think acting in a way different to other managers is evidence of anything here. It's also a matter of public record that he considers loyalty to his "core team" to be a considerable factor in his success - and also a major failing in his management style.

[brendywendy]

So, thinking a manager's behaviour unusual as it differs from the behaviour of 99.99% of football managers throughout history, and thinking it odd that for one year only our chairman suggested an approach the polar opposite of what he has done since is a "weird conspiracy theory".

OK

thats pretty lame chards. even for you.

any actual argument?

its not a competition you now, im just genuinely interested why/how you think like you do, and actual explanations would realy help rather than constantly trying to get one over anyone.

Well as neither you nor I or anyone else on here was party to discussions between Coppell and Madejski, I don't really have an argument, more an opinion.

My opinion is that if Coppell was offered significant funds and didn't spend them, it's out of character for Madejski and out of character for football managers in general.

I don't really understand why you thank that opinion's lame but you're more than entitled to you opinion. It's a discussion board.

so if its so out of character for JM, please attempt to explain the attempted bids for mensah and scott brown, and the interest in lescott?
even the subsequent big money purchases of fae and halford.
(incidentally i think both of these ha a big impact on SC not spending that money. fingers burn with EFae and GHalford both in terms of footballing ability and squad disruption. and also the realisation due to SBrown and JMensah that it doesnt mater how much you offer, for however good a player- for most RFC wouldnt be their first choice in the prem. these were exactly the things that i believe made him back off with the money available.)

and we all know that coppell was a bit different from other football managers, in almost every character trait. its widely remarked upon.

[Ian Royal]

So Schards would rather believe his own prejudicial view based on no evidence and little knowledge of the inner workings of the club, than the word of one of the most honest and respected men in football?

I'm truely shocked.

There's none so blind as them as refuse to see.

[Schards#2]

LOL @ Ian Royal desperate to start some beef. Could you clarify what my "prejudicial view" is please?

I've never heard Steve Coppell speak on the subject and would be interested to hear how specific he may have been regarding the sums avaialable to him.

Brendy points to a couple of people we didn't sign as proof we were happy to pay big money but, given we are told we can't believe figures for actual transfers, I'm far less inclined to believe amounts we've reportedly bid. As for Fae and Halford, they were purchased for relatively small sums in Premier League parlence. Indeed, i would imagine we would have one of the lowest "Record Transfer Fee Paid" figures in the top two divisions.

I can well believe Coppell being offered £2m odd to improve the squad and feeling that wasn't sufficient to do so, I remain less convinced that he was offered the significant sums eluded too as it would be unusual for a manager to decline them and unusual for Madejski to offer them.

If there's concrete evidence of the amount available, post it up by all means, otherwise, i'll stick to my best guess and others can stick to theirs, but it'll only ever be an opinion rather than fact.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Below are two verifiable and attributable facts :

- In early May 2007 Hibs accepted an offer from Reading FC for Scott Brown. He declined to move.
- in the same month, Celtic purchased Scott Brown for £4.4m.

If Celtic needed to pay that much to secure him, and Reading had had an offer accepted for the same player one week earlier, I find it unlikely that Reading's offer would have been much lower.

[FiNeRaIn]

- in the same month, Celtic purchased Scott Brown for £4.4m.

Everyone here criticized him at the time, he went on to play in the champions league and captain his country at international level. Reading went on to get relegated, sell all their players and play in a half empty stadium.

Good decision in the end.

[PieEater]

I guess we'll never know the sums involved, certainly if they were massive Coppell would have been more likely to buy players to improve the squad. If it was small he'd be more likely to conclude anyone he could buy wouldn't be any better than what he had.

Or alternatively, Coppell was scared of big money signings, or the players he'd want wouldn't accept the RFC wage structure or want to play for a relegation fodder team.

[Svlad Cjelli]

- in the same month, Celtic purchased Scott Brown for £4.4m.

Everyone here criticized him at the time, he went on to play in the champions league and captain his country at international level. Reading went on to get relegated, sell all their players and play in a half empty stadium.

Good decision in the end.

Agreed, but perhaps if he'd joined us we'd not have been relegated and he'd have gone on the play in the UEFA Cup and captain his country at international level. No way of telling what might have happened.

But in the context of this thread it proves that the intent was there to purchase £4M players in May 2007.

[ZacNaloen]

- in the same month, Celtic purchased Scott Brown for £4.4m.

Everyone here criticized him at the time, he went on to play in the champions league and captain his country at international level. Reading went on to get relegated, sell all their players and play in a half empty stadium.

Good decision in the end.

However if he had signed, he would have been the player to fill the sidwell hole been succesful in the premier league proving himself at a much much higher level than scottish football and possibly got a move to an even bigger club. Who knows?

Nothing wrong with what he said arguably he could have been the player that stopped us getting relegated.

[brendywendy]

LOL @ Ian Royal desperate to start some beef. Could you clarify what my "prejudicial view" is please?

I've never heard Steve Coppell speak on the subject and would be interested to hear how specific he may have been regarding the sums avaialable to him.

Brendy points to a couple of people we didn't sign as proof we were happy to pay big money but, given we are told we can't believe figures for actual transfers, I'm far less inclined to believe amounts we've reportedly bid. As for Fae and Halford, they were purchased for relatively small sums in Premier League parlence. Indeed, i would imagine we would have one of the lowest "Record Transfer Fee Paid" figures in the top two divisions.
I can well believe Coppell being offered £2m odd to improve the squad and feeling that wasn't sufficient to do so, I remain less convinced that he was offered the significant sums eluded too as it would be unusual for a manager to decline them and unusual for Madejski to offer them.

If there's concrete evidence of the amount available, post it up by all means, otherwise, i'll stick to my best guess and others can stick to theirs, but it'll only ever be an opinion rather than fact.

except the bid values came from the players clubs, not ours. two bids of ~4 million each, plus the confirmed bid(ammount unknown) for lescott)
but i guess if you wish to disbelieve anything SC said himself, youll have no trouble dismissing Hibs and Lens or whoever


fae and halford were purchased only after our large bids for more expensive, better players failed.

[brendywendy]

- in the same month, Celtic purchased Scott Brown for £4.4m.

Everyone here criticized him at the time, he went on to play in the champions league and captain his country at international level. Reading went on to get relegated, sell all their players and play in a half empty stadium.

Good decision in the end.

but would it have been if hed madethe other way.

you could argue that a scott brown in the middle woul dhave kept us up. meaning hed have spent the last few years plying his trade in the premiere league.

and lol at us selling when we were up there,we didnt have to, as demonstrated by sidwell.

[brendywendy]

I guess we'll never know the sums involved, certainly if they were massive Coppell would have been more likely to buy players to improve the squad. If it was small he'd be more likely to conclude anyone he could buy wouldn't be any better than what he had.

Or alternatively, Coppell was scared of big money signings, or the players he'd want wouldn't accept the RFC wage structure or want to play for a relegation fodder team.

he offered ~4 million on at least two players he thought would improve the squad, and fit in. they failed as the players didnt want to come to little reading.
once that happens you can either go and spend 4 million on randoms who werent your targets, or look at your next lot of targets on teh ext rung down- ie halford and fae.
he made thatchoise, and its easy to see why.

[FiNeRaIn]

we also bid 5.5 million for lescott who also turned us down, there was money available in that first season and we bid for people, however second season was just awful.

[STAR Liaison]

I've never heard Steve Coppell speak on the subject and would be interested to hear how specific he may have been regarding the sums avaialable to him.

I can well believe Coppell being offered £2m odd to improve the squad and feeling that wasn't sufficient to do so, I remain less convinced that he was offered the significant sums eluded too as it would be unusual for a manager to decline them and unusual for Madejski to offer them.

I was lucky enough through my position in STAR to talk to SC (as well as hear him at Fans Forums) about such things and his opinion once we got to the PL was that we needed to have £50m to spend to make a difference. He was aware that it was never going to be the case at Reading and I suspect that could be why he tried to get players that were not already in the PL as a way to attempt to get quality players at an uninflated cost. They didn't really work for whatever reason.

He certainly said he decided not to go for O'Neill as preferred Blakey he never thought he was not going to recover in time - wrong but understandable. I think Cahill was a possibility but we were outbid (but that is memory alone and fallible!)

[Hoop Blah]

I'm not sure it is out of character for SJM, because if you base his behaviour on times of high income, when in the PL, you have very little established pattern of behaviour to go on.

And we all know that in so many other ways the way SSC worked as a manager is very different to the way the majority of other managers work, so I don't think acting in a way different to other managers is evidence of anything here. It's also a matter of public record that he considers loyalty to his "core team" to be a considerable factor in his success - and also a major failing in his management style.

It's not like he hadn't bank rolled the club for the best part of 20 years throwing money at it every season just to keep it afloat.

To say it's out of character for him to make competitive funds available to his managers is overlooking the backing that Burns, Pardew and Coppell all received before we got the the Premier League.

[brendywendy]

and the backing that copell himself got in the prem regarding the lescott, mensah, brown, fae, halford bids submitted.
but they just refuse to see it.
it like arguing with tulip on the 9/11 conspiracy thread.

[Svlad Cjelli]

I'm not sure it is out of character for SJM, because if you base his behaviour on times of high income, when in the PL, you have very little established pattern of behaviour to go on.

And we all know that in so many other ways the way SSC worked as a manager is very different to the way the majority of other managers work, so I don't think acting in a way different to other managers is evidence of anything here. It's also a matter of public record that he considers loyalty to his "core team" to be a considerable factor in his success - and also a major failing in his management style.

It's not like he hadn't bank rolled the club for the best part of 20 years throwing money at it every season just to keep it afloat.

To say it's out of character for him to make competitive funds available to his managers is overlooking the backing that Burns, Pardew and Coppell all received before we got the the Premier League.

And it also ignores that fact that he's always looked at the income when deciding how much to spend - as shown by Stoke, when you have guaranteed income in Tier 1 that's ten times that of Tier 2 it's safe to sanction spending much greater sums than you ever have at a lower level.

[brendywendy]

we also broke our transfer records every year from 05-08 until we went down.

[SouthDownsRoyal]

we also broke our transfer records every year from 05-08 until we went down.

ooo wow

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