RFC - a total shambles

[.:BigDaveInTheDungeon:.]

Today was just as abysmal as I feared. It is frankly laughable for Coppell to be bleating about losing players to the African Nations Cup as if this was suddenly sprung on us like some cruel Jeremy Beadle set up. If we needed defensive cover it might just have been an idea to make some enquiries and put some wheels in motion a month or two ago mightn't it?

Today the players looked defeated and leaderless from the word go. We had not one player who looked in any way threatening to the Villa defence. Clearly not a very happy camp at the moment; these latest comments from the venerable Leroy sum up the malaise around the place at the moment http://www.bbc.co.uk/berkshire/content/ ... ture.shtml

I am sure the RTG prozac brigade will point back to our win against Liverpool last month; one swallow can make for a pleasant evening but it certainly doesn't make a summer. Liverpool are an utter shambles anyway, even the likes of Wigan and Middlesbrough take points off them. Manchester United and Chelsea won't be so forgiving and I have as much enthusiasm for those two forthcoming defeats as I do for a trip to the dentist. I look forward to a string of superb January signings now to brighten up an otherwise pointless month

if you think a team like liverpool are a shambles then a team like Reading stand no chance of being any good in your eyes. and if you're expecting the team just to get beaten then maybe you shouldn't bother coming and give your ticket to someone who will acctually come to support the team.

[Uke]

Good Championship/League 1 players costs plus salary <<<<< Any Prem player costs plus salary

as a result return on Investment is greater - sell on fees, promotion to Prem, TV revenues, next parachute payment, etc...

So is that team of good championship players/League 1 players going to be a Premiership side or is it going to be a cheap side for the Championship? Would that side guarentee us a place in the Premiership? Or would it be just one of ten or so sides aiming for promotion?

Your point was that it would be cheaper to rebuild a Premiership side in the Championship as opposed to building it in the Premiership. I still don't see how thats possible.

If a "PL potential standard" player comes to a Prem team he will command a PL transfer fee and salary.

If he comes to a CCC team both will be lower

Its the salary that costs long term, more than the transfer fee

[Huntley & Palmer]

Good Championship/League 1 players costs plus salary <<<<< Any Prem player costs plus salary

as a result return on Investment is greater - sell on fees, promotion to Prem, TV revenues, next parachute payment, etc...

So is that team of good championship players/League 1 players going to be a Premiership side or is it going to be a cheap side for the Championship? Would that side guarentee us a place in the Premiership? Or would it be just one of ten or so sides aiming for promotion?

Your point was that it would be cheaper to rebuild a Premiership side in the Championship as opposed to building it in the Premiership. I still don't see how thats possible.

If a "PL potential standard" player comes to a Prem team he will command a PL transfer fee and salary.

If he comes to a CCC team both will be lower

Its the salary that costs long term, more than the transfer fee

The question surely has to be, why would he want to come to us in the first place if we are struggling to secure the required level of player now when we are in the Premiership, let alone if we are relegated from it.

[Mr Irascible]

The worst thing has been the two successive 4-6 defeats as on the Fixtures and Results part of HNA!

26 Dec West Ham A PREMIERSHIP 1-1 34,277 12 Kitson
29 Dec Tottenham A PREMIERSHIP 4-6 36,178 13 Cisse, Ingimarsson, Kitson(2)
1 Jan 2008 Portsmouth H PREMIERSHIP 4-6 24,084 13 -
5 Jan Tottenham A FA CUP RD3 2-2 35,243 - Hunt(2)

[BobKnows]

Small club mentality and a business before football club ethic is what needs addressing.

I think Johnny M sees the club as 70% business 30% football club.

A 50/50 split is what is required for the time being, we need to stay up and its abvious to all we need to sign some players and soon. If it means a re-think on our wages policy so be it, maybe the business profit targets will have to come up short if we want the football club to remain in the Prem?

And herein lies the REAL crux of the debate; those on the side of SPEND SPEND SPEND to survive in the Prem and HANG the consequences if that strategy fails, to those who say that the club SHOULD be run on sound business principles first to ensure that whatever happens, the club survives in the medium to long term.

I'm curious about one thing though - WHY does the club NEED to stay up??? Relegation doesn't seem to have put Watford or West Brom into administration..........whereas spending vastly outside what is sustainable or realistic has had a dramatic effect on clubs like Leeds, Bradford, Barnsley, Sheffield Weds, Swindon etc etc etc......

Why? Because the whole point is to compete and try and be the best you can.

I don't want us to dither around in the Premiership accepting that staying up and being part of the Premiership cash cow is as good as we can be. I want us to be pushing ourselves all the way to be the best we can. To build a side, within our means, that can battle for a European place or have pretentions of winning a pot here and there.

We don't need to spend spend spend.

We don't need to spend money we don't have.

We just need to buy 2 or 3 players better than what we already.

For what it's worth I don't want to support a SPEND SPEND SPEND club, and I wish some people would be more realistic. Two years ago, we would have been thanking heaven and earth for our current position. Now, laughably, we've got people calling for SC's head.

Would I swap the club I have now, for Reading as the new Man Utd or Chelsea? Nope, because I'd never get to see them, wouldn't be able to afford it ... I'd probably suffer overkill from the constant coverage and media bullshit, and have to pretend to care about some European competition, where half the games are across the other side of the continent... as for all the whinging superstar players, don't get me started.

Being a small club is GOOD. And if that means I have a "small time" mentality, then oxf*rd it, that's fine by me

[Volvicanus]

RFC is going to stagnate (which eventually will turn to going down) as long as Mr Mad continues in his role. He's been great for the club and I certainly have nothing against him, but at this stage in the game, his mind-set is akin to someone trying to sell a house. You spend just enough to fix some minor problems, make it look nice on the surface, but you do not spend the money it will take to make it something special or take it further.

He's made this position quite clear in interviews as well ('I think that's for someone else to do at Reading...').

[CMRoyal]

I must admit as a forum newbie it's hard to reconcile genuine (and mostly well-meaning) criticism of a club’s seeming lack of ambition with this thread title. Maybe I shouldn’t read too much into the word “shamblesâ€

[brendywendy]

[quote="CMRoyal"]I must admit as a forum newbie it's hard to reconcile genuine (and mostly well-meaning) criticism of a club’s seeming lack of ambition with this thread title. Maybe I shouldn’t read too much into the word “shamblesâ€

[Hoop Blah]

Good Championship/League 1 players costs plus salary <<<<< Any Prem player costs plus salary

as a result return on Investment is greater - sell on fees, promotion to Prem, TV revenues, next parachute payment, etc...

So is that team of good championship players/League 1 players going to be a Premiership side or is it going to be a cheap side for the Championship? Would that side guarentee us a place in the Premiership? Or would it be just one of ten or so sides aiming for promotion?

Your point was that it would be cheaper to rebuild a Premiership side in the Championship as opposed to building it in the Premiership. I still don't see how thats possible.

If a "PL potential standard" player comes to a Prem team he will command a PL transfer fee and salary.

If he comes to a CCC team both will be lower

Its the salary that costs long term, more than the transfer fee

Even if that worked, and these players with potential signed for us instead of a Premiership club, it still doesn't sound like buidling a Premiership side in the Championship on a lower budget than adding to our current on.

[Uke]

Good Championship/League 1 players costs plus salary <<<<< Any Prem player costs plus salary

as a result return on Investment is greater - sell on fees, promotion to Prem, TV revenues, next parachute payment, etc...

So is that team of good championship players/League 1 players going to be a Premiership side or is it going to be a cheap side for the Championship? Would that side guarentee us a place in the Premiership? Or would it be just one of ten or so sides aiming for promotion?

Your point was that it would be cheaper to rebuild a Premiership side in the Championship as opposed to building it in the Premiership. I still don't see how thats possible.

If a "PL potential standard" player comes to a Prem team he will command a PL transfer fee and salary.

If he comes to a CCC team both will be lower

Its the salary that costs long term, more than the transfer fee

Even if that worked, and these players with potential signed for us instead of a Premiership club, it still doesn't sound like buidling a Premiership side in the Championship on a lower budget than adding to our current on.

You're right, it isn't. But it is exactly the business model that has kept us in the Prem for at least two whole seasons isn't it?

[Hoop Blah]

You're right, it isn't. But it is exactly the business model that has kept us in the Prem for at least two whole seasons isn't it?

Well I guess it's the business model that could see us relegated yes.

It was also the business model that saw us striving for the top flight for however many years without success. A backward step now would have pretty serious consquences I think.

It's still not cheaper to build a Premiership team in the Championship than it is in the Premiership though, which was the point I had an issue with.

[Royal Rother]

You're right, it isn't. But it is exactly the business model that has kept us in the Prem for at least two whole seasons isn't it?

Well I guess it's the business model that could see us relegated yes.

It was also the business model that saw us striving for the top flight for however many years without success. A backward step now would have pretty serious consquences I think.

It's still not cheaper to build a Premiership team in the Championship than it is in the Premiership though, which was the point I had an issue with.

But we built a Premier League team for less than £5m whilst we were in the Championship!

Now people are clamouring for us to spend more than £5m on 1 player.

[Hoop Blah]

You're right, it isn't. But it is exactly the business model that has kept us in the Prem for at least two whole seasons isn't it?

Well I guess it's the business model that could see us relegated yes.

It was also the business model that saw us striving for the top flight for however many years without success. A backward step now would have pretty serious consquences I think.

It's still not cheaper to build a Premiership team in the Championship than it is in the Premiership though, which was the point I had an issue with.

But we built a Premier League team for less than £5m whilst we were in the Championship!

Now people are clamouring for us to spend more than £5m on 1 player.

I'd say we built a freakishly good championship squad and a side that got every sinew of it's ability out in a fantastic season last year.

What we've seen is that side can't maintain those standard under the week-in week-out pressure of a Premiership season. We need to build a true Premiership side, and indeed squad, to push on from here. By that I mean one that can cope with a few injuries and one that can drop players when their out of form or just plain knackered.

I do agree that the side we built was fantastic (and proved that it could perform in a one off Premiership season), but it also took at least 3 or 4 years to build it. To rebuild a side in the Championship to bounce back will probably take just as long, if not longer considering how much of a freakishly good side that proved to be. To do it any quicker would take serious investment, and I still don't see how that investment would be cheaper in the Championship than it would be in the Prem.

[PEARCEY]

Great post RB – you can’t ‘establish’ yourself as a Premier League club without spending and paying like one. It simply isn’t possible. We achieved 8th place last season as a fresh, football playing team riding on the back of our points record in 05/06. The players simply played out of their skin; 8th place is quite incredible, it really, really is. What a performance.

This season management has been complacent in failing to invest in improvements to the squad – and the mentality is even seeping down to the fans, some of whom (on this and other threads) think that ‘all we need’ is a defender and a midfielder. No! We need players all over the park – constant investment, constant improvement. There is better than Graeme Murty, better than Ingimarsson, better than Stephen Hunt even (believe it or not). This club nearly qualified for Europe – it’s stock had never been higher than in May ’07, but Coppell has since admitted that he felt ‘we would be fine with what we had’. Quite how you can entrust the improvement of Reading Football Club in Shane Long and Brynjar Gunnarsson is beyond me.

Lots of snide, smug remarks have been thrown Sunderland’s way in the last few weeks – yesterday they moved to within two points of us thanks to one of their signings, Kieran Richardson. If they stay up then the £20-30m spent by Keane will be completely and wholly vindicated. We won’t go bust if we spend £20-30m, and it is naive (or just stubborn) of anyone to suggest otherwise. I’d sooner we spent some money, invested in this league, and went down an ambitious and forward thinking club than get relegated as safety-first chancers who spent 12 months trying to kid the big boys into letting them play with them.

Few seem to consider the impact that relegation might have on this club – we aren’t big timers, our players would leave. Sure, the Championship looks all fun and games from up here – but what about for a squad without Sonko, Shorey, Harper, Hunt, Doyle, Lita and Kitson? And no prospect of signing better replacements?

So our club captain doesn’t read this website ‘any more’. Perhaps that is reflective of the growing gap between the ambition of RFC, and that of its fans.

Good post as was RB's...it makes depressing reading.
I have understood the RTG's opposite view since I have been on this board but we are in a relegation battle and do need to strengthen.I agree with what has been said in that it does not mean boom and bust but some players who can come into the side and make an impact are required and swiftly.

[sucatraps]

and the centre back we would choose to lead us out of the mire is?

[PEARCEY]

and the centre back we would choose to lead us out of the mire is?

Thats a question for the clubs management and scouts to answer. The ANC was always going to weaken the team with two central defenders missing.This was therefore something that could have been planned for well in advance.
Part of the answer may be found within the ranks of the squad. Alex Pearce may prove good enough. If he isn't tried we wont know will we.

[sucatraps]

quite so, but what I had in mind was a short term fix, leader in the "Sol Campbell" mould to bring stability, maturity and experience to the defence, in much the same way as Upson did before. What about Sami Hyperbole?

[PEARCEY]

Yes I agree but there will be a number of other teams, ie the likes of Spurs who could do with that type of player and will be prepared to pay a lot more in wages and transfer fee than we will

[Gordons Cumming]

I think floyd should change the title of this thread coz it's stupid............


As an example of a shambles I would use Leeds Utd. Reading are galaxies away from that.

HTH

[floyd__streete]

I think floyd should change the title of this thread coz it's stupid............

Do I have the power to do that? Cool ! Ok, how about Reading Football Club - LOL or Reading Football Club - run on the budget of Acorn Antiques?