Q: Is having only two centre backs enough?

[cmonurz]

A team with realistic hopes of promotion has to replace players at the first attempt. If we end up replacing Mills poorly, and have a defence more porous than brendy's politics arguments, then we'll have more pressing things to worry about than the playoffs.

We won't sign a player as good as Mills because we'll spend only a fraction of his fee on a replacement. So I'm concerned about our fortunes next season, especially as we also, it seems, couldn't afford a relatively small fee for Zurab. Grip got, thanks.

[brendywendy]

A team with realistic hopes of promotion has to replace players at the first attempt. If we end up replacing Mills poorly, and have a defence more porous than brendy's politics arguments, then we'll have more pressing things to worry about than the playoffs.

We won't sign a player as good as Mills because we'll spend only a fraction of his fee on a replacement. So I'm concerned about our fortunes next season, especially as we also, it seems, couldn't afford a relatively small fee for Zurab. Grip got, thanks.

i disagree- we wont sign a player as expensive as mills, but that doesnt actually equate to eventual quality on the pitch.

lol at not being able to afford zurab- wasnt interested unless we went up, and after the bizarre playoff final performance, and a couple of other games too, im not actually sure i wanted him to stay either.

you say a team with realistic ambition of promotion needs to successfully replace at the first attempt.
a few posts back someone listed about 7 players we didnt replace fully first time.
and yest weve still been challenging for, or actually in the playoffs every season.
which would kind of say that you are actually wrong.

[cmonurz]

I'm talking about promotion, you're talking about dotting around in mid-table for most of the season. This club has quite spectacular potential, we don't need to approach things as we are, but I'm used to that financial model by now. What concerns me more is relegation, tbh. Say Long is sold too, as expected - as it stands we've got Pearce and Morrisson at centre-back, and Church and Manset up front.

[sandman]

Brian McD has already publicly stated that we will buy at least one more CB (BBCRB on Friday evening) - the only question is whether or not that CB will be of sufficient quality.

"I’ll try to bring a centre-back in. We’ll wait and see what happens as far as anybody else is concerned (with regards to further departures) and then go from there."

you are criticising because he said try?!

lol.

Not criticising McD at all just that he said try instead of will. TBH I was just on a wind up and you jumped right into it.

[brendywendy]

I'm talking about promotion, you're talking about dotting around in mid-table for most of the season. This club has quite spectacular potential, we don't need to approach things as we are, but I'm used to that financial model by now. What concerns me more is relegation, tbh. Say Long is sold too, as expected - as it stands we've got Pearce and Morrisson at centre-back, and Church and Manset up front.

no, im talking about making two playodffs, andf one playoff final, during this period when we have so spectacularly failed to replace any of the good players sold.
at teh same time many of these players who arent good enough are attracting much interest from other clubs. weird.

ill say it as strongly as i can without causing offence:
if we get to the end of the window, having sold mills, and long, and havent replaced them.
i will be as angry, confused, and upset as you.
but im simply going to wait till the window is shut before i start chicken lickening it up.

[brendywendy]

"I’ll try to bring a centre-back in. We’ll wait and see what happens as far as anybody else is concerned (with regards to further departures) and then go from there."

you are criticising because he said try?!

lol.

Not criticising McD at all just that he said try instead of will. TBH I was just on a wind up and you jumped right into it.

you must be some sort of master fisher man.

i salute your supreme skills.

you have managed to snare a man who cant avoid posting in reply to anything. down to and including a picture of a stick.

[Hoop Blah]

Successfully replaced at the first attempt? By that I mean replacing with a player to consistently produce at the level we then found ourselves at (ie I don't expect a Sidwell or Shorey replacement of the same quality as their best, just someone to do their same job to a decent standard).

Up for debate, but off the top of my head, without too much consideration

Little? No
Doyle? No
Murty? No
Sonko? No
Shorey? Yes, but then Armstrong No
Hahnemann? Yes
Kitson? No
Harper? Not really
Convey? Yes

who said at the first attempt?
apart from you of course?

In the context of this conversation, replacing Mills/Ingimarsson/Kishanishvili for the upcoming season is there another relevant measure?

We're left with two recognised centre halfs so we're talking about replacing them for this season, that means we need to do it right first time don't we?

From my list above I think you could argue we did ok replacing Sonko at the time (a combination of Bikey/Dubery) but it was a bit hit and miss.

[brendywendy]

im not going to disagree with you about not replacing mills being a mistake. it probably will be. but i think we will give it a good go.

and i will say it did us ok in 05/06

[Hoop Blah]

no, im talking about making two playodffs, andf one playoff final, during this period when we have so spectacularly failed to replace any of the good players sold.
at teh same time many of these players who arent good enough are attracting much interest from other clubs. weird.

Good achievment for last seasons side, a disappointment for Coppells final season though.

Both squads were the result of not sufficiently replacing members of a squad that scored 106 points in this division and then fishished 8th in the Premier League. That fall from grace (and granted, a potentially an artificial high) is the backdrop to those play off appearances.

You also didn't mention the totally unavoidable relegation that preceeded it. That selective commentry is a tad Snowballesque of you brendy!

[andrew1957]

Early days but Jack Mills has played one and a half games now without our reserve team conceding a goal - very young but might be a prospect if we have injuries.

Rather worrying that we conceded 3 with Morrison at the back.

[brendywendy]

no, im talking about making two playodffs, andf one playoff final, during this period when we have so spectacularly failed to replace any of the good players sold.
at teh same time many of these players who arent good enough are attracting much interest from other clubs. weird.

Good achievment for last seasons side, a disappointment for Coppells final season though.

Both squads were the result of not sufficiently replacing members of a squad that scored 106 points in this division and then fishished 8th in the Premier League. That fall from grace (and granted, a potentially an artificial high) is the backdrop to those play off appearances.

You also didn't mention the totally unavoidable relegation that preceeded it. That selective commentry is a tad Snowballesque of you brendy!

of course it was a disappointment to lose to burnley/brum, especially after being so good up till xmas. im simply saying that the fact we got there at all was good. wheeras you simply see it as bad. again- its teh difference between positivity and negativity.

i just dont get how anyone is supposed to, after relegation from the prem, manage to get a team that is better than the one you inevitably have to sell when you come down.or why anyone would expect us to.

not really. we were talking about replacing that team- why would i have included that team.

[Hoop Blah]

It's not about improving the team after losing some of the best players ever to wear the shirt. It's about replacing them with sufficient quality to not get relegated in the first place or not let the wheels come off half way through a season.

It took us about 4 attempts to find a reasonable replacement for Murty (Halls, Halford, Rosenoir, Cummings, Griffin).

It took us about 3 years to replace Little.

The replacements aren't ad good, but they are capable at the level we're playing at and are successfully doing a job for us. The concern is that having let ourselves go from having 4 centre halfs plus a newcomer bedding in we now have 2 (including that newcomer who's now supposedly settled in if not actually tried and tested) and need to strengthen/replace successfully for the forthcoming season.

Some people recognise that this will be a challenge and are expressing a concern. Some seem to think there's nothing to worry about because we always (Sidwell apart) never fail to replace a player adequately.

[Wycombe Royal]

It took us about 4 attempts to find a reasonable replacement for Murty (Halls, Halford, Rosenoir, Cummings, Griffin).

Halls and Halford were not replacements for Murty in my opinion, Rosenior did a decent job (as good as Griffin is doing) and Cummings was a youngster who just got off to a bad start in a bad team.

[brendywendy]

no, i just think its the difference between exopending energy moaning and worrying about possible actions and consequences in the future,
or waiting till something actually happens before criticising.

ive already said if we sell mills, and long and dont replace them adequately, ill be pissed off.

[Hoop Blah]

Halls and Halford were both purchased as replacements for Murty, maybe not in the immediate short term, but with the expectation that they'd push him out of the side eventually.

Neither got close to it.

Rosenior did an ok job yes, in some eyes (I wasn't a critic) but in many others view he was woeful. He didn't make the position his own and was let go as soon as we could find someone to take him. I think that equates to a failure personally.

[Hoop Blah]

no, i just think its the difference between exopending energy moaning and worrying about possible actions and consequences in the future,
or waiting till something actually happens before criticising.

So instead you spend all that energy criticising others concerns and basically claiming their unfounded because we will successfully replace them because we always do (apart from, apparently, Sidwell).

I'm not too fussed about it yet, but I do think there are genuine concerns about what will happen as we seem to have been caught with out pants down a bit, and I think it's a bit rich to slag off peoples concerns as unfounded when there's a reasonable chance they're quite valid.

[Wycombe Royal]

Halls and Halford were both purchased as replacements for Murty, maybe not in the immediate short term, but with the expectation that they'd push him out of the side eventually.

Neither got close to it.

Rosenior did an ok job yes, in some eyes (I wasn't a critic) but in many others view he was woeful. He didn't make the position his own and was let go as soon as we could find someone to take him. I think that equates to a failure personally.

Halls was bought as backup, he was never seen as a long term replacement.

[Hoop Blah]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that point then WR.

He was considerably the younger man and I think bought with a view to being the long term successor to Murty. If not I think we probably would've stuck with the likes of De La Cruz and Makin as short term cover for Murty and Shorey.

[brendywendy]

Halls and Halford were both purchased as replacements for Murty, maybe not in the immediate short term, but with the expectation that they'd push him out of the side eventually.

Neither got close to it.

Rosenior did an ok job yes, in some eyes (I wasn't a critic) but in many others view he was woeful. He didn't make the position his own and was let go as soon as we could find someone to take him. I think that equates to a failure personally.

Halls was bought as backup, he was never seen as a long term replacement.

wasnt he a couple of million quid?
and a record buy?
not like us at all to do that for a back up player

[brendywendy]

no, i just think its the difference between exopending energy moaning and worrying about possible actions and consequences in the future,
or waiting till something actually happens before criticising.

So instead you spend all that energy criticising others concerns and basically claiming their unfounded because we will successfully replace them because we always do (apart from, apparently, Sidwell).

I'm not too fussed about it yet, but I do think there are genuine concerns about what will happen as we seem to have been caught with out pants down a bit, and I think it's a bit rich to slag off peoples concerns as unfounded when there's a reasonable chance they're quite valid.

lol


in my experience, the club have more than proven their ability with this stuff.
because weve sold loads of great players, replaced them, and remained competetive.
unless youre barcalona- you just have to deal with that.

i wasnt slagging you off at all, simply highlighting where the difference lies between the two thought processes, and why that means we wont ever agree- and therefore probably shouldbnt bother arguing about it.