How can a team playing so poorly have such good current form

[RepressedRoyal]

I think Repressed Royal's post is probably the best and certainly one of the wisest I've read on this forum. I agree entirely with all of it and will now go and wash the dishes.

I agree, although it's a bit of an exaggeration to say that only games involving big Premier League clubs are entertaining - but I'd have to agree with the general gist of it - we have been spoilt in recent years so the expectations are a bit too high maybe.

But at the moment all we seem to do is grind out results, we haven't really had a day when we've really given someone a thumping, or even really looked like doing so. Surprisingly enough, contrary to RR's post that actually happens in games up and down the country at all levels fairly often, it's entertaining and sometimes even the bad teams do it.

So despite agreeing with the sentiment - still would have to agree with the OP.

With the players we have,I think it is the only way we can achieve such an impressive run of stats Rob. It is only opinion, but I think McDermott knows that if we tried to play with more style we would be 15th rather than 3rd, we just haven't got the creative players in the middle of the pitch. I fully take your point though, I can't sit here and truthfully say I was leaping around with unbridled joy last night.

[Woodcote Royal]

2nd half was a bit of a grind but we played some good stuff 1st half I thought. We were patient,passed it well enough and got behind them on several occasions.

2nd half Pompey tightened up, they doubled up on McAnuff and we didn't make the most of it by getting the bal out to HRK who in the 1st half had the beating of Mokeona.

Two things we need to remember I think.

1) Without Kebe's explosive pace, teams defend higher up the pitch and squeeze the play. We simply aren't good enough passers to pass it through them so if in doubt we'll hit it into an area and then pressurise them from there.

2) Roberts is a huge player for us but lets just say he "manages his game" very well. He's a passenger for large parts of the game but overall it's worth it because the quality he brings when he's on it is obvious. It does make it difficult when at times we're effectively playing with 10 men. I suspect this also might be why McD is reluctant to start with the Roberts/ALF partenrship many favour.

I have to say I've been of the opinion that it simply won't be good enough when we come to play the better teams in this league. Thing is, when we have (Boro,Burnley), we've still won.

File under: The manager knows what he's doing to get the very best out of the resources he has available.

Totally agree but would add that we are also carrying Harte's lack of pace which, in my view, accounts for the cautious approach of the team as a whole, the amount of defensive work the wingers get through and why Kebe's pace is such a big loss when he's missing.

Also, I don't think it's just Roberts who "manages" his performances.

I haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere but suddenly we are an older team packed with those in their late 20's upwards. These guys will be heavily motivated by the increasing prospect of one last Premiership wage/contract but those of us who played in our 30's understand the need to do what's required and not much more. If this keeps Roberts injury free for the rest of season, I fancy us to get the points to regain our Prem status.....................but it won't be pretty

[Hoop Blah]

Two things we need to remember I think.

1) Without Kebe's explosive pace, teams defend higher up the pitch and squeeze the play. We simply aren't good enough passers to pass it through them so if in doubt we'll hit it into an area and then pressurise them from there.

2) Roberts is a huge player for us but lets just say he "manages his game" very well. He's a passenger for large parts of the game but overall it's worth it because the quality he brings when he's on it is obvious. It does make it difficult when at times we're effectively playing with 10 men. I suspect this also might be why McD is reluctant to start with the Roberts/ALF partenrship many favour.

I have to say I've been of the opinion that it simply won't be good enough when we come to play the better teams in this league. Thing is, when we have (Boro,Burnley), we've still won.

File under: The manager knows what he's doing to get the very best out of the resources he has available.

Have to agree with this.

I've said for months that we're not playing well enough to sustain our form but I think I need to rephrase that a bit, we're playing well at what we set out to do. We're very good at that and it's proven very difficult for teams to cope with.

What we don't do is create many chances or ever look like we're going to score many goals. For me that's not 'playing well' as such, but it is absolutely an effective way of playing and the right one for the manager to go for with this set of players if he wants to win as many games as possible (which is obviously the target).

I've said before though, I'd rather we were a bit more attacking, subtle, creative, entertaining or whatever you want to call it, because I watch football for the entertainment, skill, and artistry of the game as much as (if not more than) the end result. Watching sides like Peterborough or Brighton looks more interesting (from afar) but they're obviously miles behind us in terms of getting results.

Last night was an odd one though. I think whoever said we were playing within ourselves was pretty spot on with that call. Pompey were just not good enough (shows how fine the margins are at this level because they're good players but obviously aren't 'at it' right now because of the troubles at the club) and we didn't need to push ourselves to get the win. I'd have preferred it if we'd pushed to get a second to avoid a nervous last 10 minutes, but we got yet another win so can't really grumble.

[rob the royal]

With the players we have,I think it is the only way we can achieve such an impressive run of stats Rob. It is only opinion, but I think McDermott knows that if we tried to play with more style we would be 15th rather than 3rd, we just haven't got the creative players in the middle of the pitch. I fully take your point though, I can't sit here and truthfully say I was leaping around with unbridled joy last night.

That's the problem really, lack of creativity - and I agree this is the only way. It's not easy on the eye and sometimes all we can do is soak up pressure and nab a goal on the break - in that sense it's quite amazing that we are able to keep getting all these low margin wins and clean sheets.

Also as mentioned above I think that was a game where we could have gone up a gear but we did seem to play within ourselves a bit - this is also frustrating.

The way we've been playing is actually both highly impressive and highly frustrating at the same time!

[melonhead]

thought we started very well, & played some nice football on the break, and looked very sharp.
then after we scored, we stepped off a bit, and the ref broke up the game, and 2nd half they had a period where they put us under a bit of pressure.
to get out of that we then played some decent possession football, working the ball round the back four, and out to both wings to try and break them down- this is good football imo

[sandman]

Just home from the game and I have to say that even our most ardent fan wouldn`t be able to argue the fact that it was mind numbingly mediocre yet again

Wrong

thought we started very well, & played some nice football on the break, and looked very sharp.
then after we scored, we stepped off a bit, and the ref broke up the game, and 2nd half they had a period where they put us under a bit of pressure.
to get out of that we then played some decent possession football, working the ball round the back four, and out to both wings to try and break them down- this is good football imo

[melonhead]

abramovich got bored watching chelsea win 1-0 every week under mourinho

anyone remember 1-0 to the arsenal ubder GG

tonight pompie tried to strngle the game

we typically play better against better teams as they try and attack us more which opens up more space.

that last bit is key.we finally seem to have a system that not only works when teams come to play(west ham/brighton/saints/boro at home) cos we raise our games and can do play as we want to, but also when teams come to strangle the game, which has been our problem for years. thats an incredibly potent and succesful recipe that could see us go up imo


if we can keep this run up against the poor teams, we will be in the top two by the time we play west ham etc, and with that confidence i can see us getting at least a point at their place, and i see no reason then why we cant just stay there till the end of the season. hopefully making it certain before the brum game.

Gwarn urzzzz

[melonhead]

Just home from the game and I have to say that even our most ardent fan wouldn`t be able to argue the fact that it was mind numbingly mediocre yet again

thought we started very well, & played some nice football on the break, and looked very sharp.
then after we scored, we stepped off a bit, and the ref broke up the game, and 2nd half they had a period where they put us under a bit of pressure.
to get out of that we then played some decent possession football, working the ball round the back four, and out to both wings to try and break them down- this is good football imo

Wrong

what got us out of that spell of pressure was good football, not entertaining, but better football(though i find swansea's pass ball quite dull most of the time)

up until the goal i thought we looked excellent though

[sandman]

More in reply to the OP than you Melonoma. Have edited accordingly.

[melonhead]

okeydiddlydokily

[Maguire]

Agree with the OP but the fact is we simply do not have the quality of player to play beautiful football. Bluntly, they are not talented enough.

As such, you have to give enormous credit to the management and players for playing to their other strengths (commitment, workrate, etc) to such an extent that they are producing the results they are.

In the current circumstances, we can't ask any more than that but I would agree it's not easy on the eye this season and they number of chances we are creating appear less than can ever recall.

Totally agree although I don't think we're playing "poorly" at all. We're playing about as well as that selection of players can do.

The number of chances is extremely low but if we keep grinding it out then who cares really.

[Super Kevin Bremner!]

COMPLETELY agree with opening post. I hate negativity from Reading supporters but last night I found the 2nd half SO frustrating in terms of Kara and Legs. If they continue to be so poor in possession of the ball, we'll get crucified by some of the teams we have in the run in.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

I have said this before and I will say it again. The Championship and a large swathe of the PL is over rated, "MOTD" and "The Football League Show" are highlights programmes that many of us watch every Saturday evening. The key word is "highlights" they don't show the rest of the pinball dross that occurs in games featuring all but the very top PL clubs. Those who subscribe to Sky will watch games featuring Man Utd, Man City, Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool, all of whom play good football (except Liverpool who are sh1t) with top players on £100k+ a week. If the game on Sky is Bolton v Blackburn no one watches it (except a corner of Lancashire). Have any of you attempted to watch Aston Villa live? Oh my God it is pitiful stuff. Swansea are huge exception to the norm, watching Gylfi lighting up the Liberty stadium makes me want to weep.

What I am saying is that stamped in to our sub conscious are highlights of goals, slick passing and clever skill from the likes of Van Persie or Modric, so when we sit on our cold blue seats at the Madjeski stadium our brains are almost trained to demand that kind of football. It is like the the power of SKY has hypnotised us in to a deluded state that tells us that football is ninety minutes of rich entertainment, I suffer from this as badly as anyone else. However, in truth, good football is as rare as a priest who doesn't like kids, I can't remember many teams better than us at the Madjeski or indeed any team who played flowing football, though Burnley had their moments. The top two certainly didn't impress me, West Ham supposedly have PL players, but they just hoofed the ball and our players all over the place.

I don't agree at all. People aren't expecting premier league style football. I don't even watch match of the day, so it's hardly a case of expecting what I see on tv. It's not about quality, but quantity instead. There's just so little to get excited about. The quality is actually pretty good. I would guess we have an excellent conversion rate when it comes to goals from chances created. It's just odd that we create so little.

What I'm basing it on is teams of the past - not even just the wildly successful ones - where you felt a sense of excitement during the game. The team we have can grind out results, but is pretty awful going forward. Breaks tend to break down because players just don't know where to run to, meaning the guy on the ball often has no options beyond a safe ball.

With our tight defence, it means every game a is game of very few chances. Last night we had the goal, we had the near post flick that hit the side netting and I think a header that went wide. Beyond that, did anything else interesting actually happen?

Brain's job is to win games, and he doing that really well, so I wouldn't want him to change anything, but I don't think it's tactics anyway. We don't play defensively. We just struggle to create.

[Arthur Pint]

It seems to me that Brendan Rodgers tried to play more attractive passing football with much of this squad and look where that got him.

I think those that have said Brian is getting the most out of the players that he has and playing a style that suits them have hit the nail on the head, just a shame it's not a tiny bit more pretty to watch.

[RepressedRoyal]

I have said this before and I will say it again. The Championship and a large swathe of the PL is over rated, "MOTD" and "The Football League Show" are highlights programmes that many of us watch every Saturday evening. The key word is "highlights" they don't show the rest of the pinball dross that occurs in games featuring all but the very top PL clubs. Those who subscribe to Sky will watch games featuring Man Utd, Man City, Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool, all of whom play good football (except Liverpool who are sh1t) with top players on £100k+ a week. If the game on Sky is Bolton v Blackburn no one watches it (except a corner of Lancashire). Have any of you attempted to watch Aston Villa live? Oh my God it is pitiful stuff. Swansea are huge exception to the norm, watching Gylfi lighting up the Liberty stadium makes me want to weep.

What I am saying is that stamped in to our sub conscious are highlights of goals, slick passing and clever skill from the likes of Van Persie or Modric, so when we sit on our cold blue seats at the Madjeski stadium our brains are almost trained to demand that kind of football. It is like the the power of SKY has hypnotised us in to a deluded state that tells us that football is ninety minutes of rich entertainment, I suffer from this as badly as anyone else. However, in truth, good football is as rare as a priest who doesn't like kids, I can't remember many teams better than us at the Madjeski or indeed any team who played flowing football, though Burnley had their moments. The top two certainly didn't impress me, West Ham supposedly have PL players, but they just hoofed the ball and our players all over the place.

I don't agree at all. People aren't expecting premier league style football. I don't even watch match of the day, so it's hardly a case of expecting what I see on tv. It's not about quality, but quantity instead. There's just so little to get excited about. The quality is actually pretty good. I would guess we have an excellent conversion rate when it comes to goals from chances created. It's just odd that we create so little.

What I'm basing it on is teams of the past - not even just the wildly successful ones - where you felt a sense of excitement during the game. The team we have can grind out results, but is pretty awful going forward. Breaks tend to break down because players just don't know where to run to, meaning the guy on the ball often has no options beyond a safe ball.

With our tight defence, it means every game a is game of very few chances. Last night we had the goal, we had the near post flick that hit the side netting and I think a header that went wide. Beyond that, did anything else interesting actually happen?

Brain's job is to win games, and he doing that really well, so I wouldn't want him to change anything, but I don't think it's tactics anyway. We don't play defensively. We just struggle to create.

I am guessing here, but it would seem you have watched Reading as long if not longer than me (1979 was my first game). It may be that there is some rose coloured nostalgia kicking in, the old "when I was a kid it snowed for weeks every winter" syndrome where we choose what we remember. Think Burns, think Bullivant, awful, awful football teams, as awful as the teams of McGhee and Coppell were good. In the mid 80's I only went to Reading games for something to do when the pub shut at 2pm, it was dreadful entertainment. For a Swansea style of football you need creative players, we haven't got any, so we have to find a win from what we have. If we tried to play creative football with Leigertwood and Karacan it would be goodnight Vienna. I agree it lacks inspiration and excitement but it depends what the fans want. Some want attractive Championship football whilst the others want the glamour of PL. The manager is obviously paid to take the club as high as he can, in that he is succeeding. The acid test is not now, it is if or when he gets the finances for creative players. Can Brian create an attractive team?

[facaldaqui]

Maybe there's something wrong with me, but I enjoy watching Reading in present mode. The reduced precision in the second half struck me as something to do with conserving ourselves for the next game--instinctive, once we saw they couldn't hurt us, not deliberate. Reading are a team that know how to do just enough--I find that fascinating to watch. Also, I get the jitters less with this team, which is a relief. It's true, though, that we play less exciting football without Kebe on the pitch.

[Vision]

The manager is obviously paid to take the club as high as he can, in that he is succeeding. The acid test is not now, it is if or when he gets the finances for creative players. Can Brian create an attractive team?

He already has hasn't he?

The side he took over he played Kebe/McAnuff on the wings, played through Siggurdsson playing just off a main striker. Tabb and Howard were his central midfield then and the full backs were pretty attacking too.

Last season, shorn of Siggurdsson he developed a high tempo attacking side,retaining the wing play but making more use of the attributes of Long.

This season with what he's been left and what he could afford to get he's gone into a pretty much "stop the opposition from playing first then hope to fashion something at the other end"style.

What remains to be seen is IF he is allowed to keep the players he wants to keep and then add those he wants, what his preferred style of play will be.

[facaldaqui]

The manager is obviously paid to take the club as high as he can, in that he is succeeding. The acid test is not now, it is if or when he gets the finances for creative players. Can Brian create an attractive team?

He already has hasn't he?

The side he took over he played Kebe/McAnuff on the wings, played through Siggurdsson playing just off a main striker. Tabb and Howard were his central midfield then and the full backs were pretty attacking too.

Last season, shorn of Siggurdsson he developed a high tempo attacking side,retaining the wing play but making more use of the attributes of Long.

This season with what he's been left and what he could afford to get he's gone into a pretty much "stop the opposition from playing first then hope to fashion something at the other end"style.

What remains to be seen is IF he is allowed to keep the players he wants to keep and then add those he wants, what his preferred style of play will be.

The team plays as attractive as it needs to. What could have been more attractive than the way we played away to Forest last season, or the way we thrashed Cardiff? Brian's philosophy is to defend leads doggedly, but if we are behind or drawing he will not settle for a draw and the team starts attacking like mad. Therefore, it's a function of our method that the more favourable the score the less attractive we get. Then it's up to the other team to make a game of it: if they throw numbers forward, we start to get breakaways; if they just nurdle about in front of our serried ranks, we close out a tight win.

[Tinrib]

No doubt the second half was a as dull as dishwater last night , however as others have said, once we're in-front we take our foot of the gas, and allow the opposition play in front of us. We look so at ease doing that, its almost as if we're not trying, and thats credit to the players & the management. I dont think I've seen a better & more consistent RFC defensive unit in 25 years.

The thing about Mcdermott is regardless of the players he has at his disposal, he always gets the team & tactics right. Now we have the new investment, I'm almost salivating over what team he could put together with a decent transfer budget.

Let the good times roll.

[Son of Len]

The question is whether you want a good technical writer or a good fiction writer. A good fiction writer is entertaining, but the subtexts can get confusing and, in the end, you just don't get it. A good technical manual will instruct you in what you need to know.