BFTG - Forest

[Lower West]

Can't really understand the 'we were well beaten' and 'could have been four or five' posts. Yes we were poor for the first half hour and let in two very sloppy goals at the start of the 2nd half.

Just so similar to too many away games this season.

[Kitsondinho]

Can't really understand the 'we were well beaten' and 'could have been four or five' posts. Yes we were poor for the first half hour and let in two very sloppy goals at the start of the 2nd half.

Just so similar to too many away games this season.

Absobloodylutely! Although having been to the Fulham and Man Utd debacles earlier in the year, I'd say this wasn't as bad by any stretch. IMO yesterday we really should have equalised....The panic that set in the Forest players after Yann's first shows why they are where they are. Previous to that, they'd looked like the team in our position. If we finish 3rd or 4th, having the away leg of the play off first scares me. We could be 3 or 4 goals behind by the start of the 2nd leg!

[SCIAG]

That was embarrassing. Stam's fixation with a set style of play maybe his downfall. Tactically naive from the kick off. Is this Stam's way of telling the owners what investment is required. In order to achieve the goals he has set personally. All that was required was a single point to secure a play off place.

Why do football fans use the expression "tactically naive"?

It basically says they know more about football than the manager. In this case a manager that had played at the very highest level.

Yeah right.

There have been about ten times this season when Stam has made a selection which has made me question his judgement. In all but one or two of those, he's got it absolutely right.

At this point he could play Kermorgant in goal and I'd have to accept that he was probably right.

[Top Flight]

Can't really understand the 'we were well beaten' and 'could have been four or five' posts. Yes we were poor for the first half hour and let in two very sloppy goals at the start of the 2nd half.

Just so similar to too many away games this season.

Absobloodylutely! Although having been to the Fulham and Man Utd debacles earlier in the year, I'd say this wasn't as bad by any stretch. IMO yesterday we really should have equalised....The panic that set in the Forest players after Yann's first shows why they are where they are. Previous to that, they'd looked like the team in our position. If we finish 3rd or 4th, having the away leg of the play off first scares me. We could be 3 or 4 goals behind by the start of the 2nd leg!

I don't think it will go like that in the play offs. We will play with higher intensity, concentration and aggression in those all important playoff games.

We have a tendency to drop off and get complacent when it looks like it is job done this season.
When the team needed a result like away at Sheffield Wednesday and Villa by George they got one.

Don't read too much into these final few games. They won't mean anything once the play offs start.

It was similar at the end of last season. The games didn't mean anything, but all you foolish nobbers over analysed and Brian ended up getting sacked for nothing.

[RoyalBlue]

Just so similar to too many away games this season.

Absobloodylutely! Although having been to the Fulham and Man Utd debacles earlier in the year, I'd say this wasn't as bad by any stretch. IMO yesterday we really should have equalised....The panic that set in the Forest players after Yann's first shows why they are where they are. Previous to that, they'd looked like the team in our position. If we finish 3rd or 4th, having the away leg of the play off first scares me. We could be 3 or 4 goals behind by the start of the 2nd leg!

I don't think it will go like that in the play offs. We will play with higher intensity, concentration and aggression in those all important playoff games.

We have a tendency to drop off and get complacent when it looks like it is job done this season.
When the team needed a result like away at Sheffield Wednesday and Villa by George they got one.

Don't read too much into these final few games. They won't mean anything once the play offs start.

It was similar at the end of last season. The games didn't mean anything, but all you foolish nobbers over analysed and Brian ended up getting sacked for nothing.

Sacked for nothing?

The only 'progress' we were making that season (not just towards the end) was downwards and we were bored silly with shyte football and even worse results. Even those who say they are bored with Jaap's football would have to accept it's brought good results and progress in the right direction.

McDermott was sacked because you can't progress through sentimentality alone and we desperately needed to 'move on'.

[Sutekh]

Absobloodylutely! Although having been to the Fulham and Man Utd debacles earlier in the year, I'd say this wasn't as bad by any stretch. IMO yesterday we really should have equalised....The panic that set in the Forest players after Yann's first shows why they are where they are. Previous to that, they'd looked like the team in our position. If we finish 3rd or 4th, having the away leg of the play off first scares me. We could be 3 or 4 goals behind by the start of the 2nd leg!

I don't think it will go like that in the play offs. We will play with higher intensity, concentration and aggression in those all important playoff games.

We have a tendency to drop off and get complacent when it looks like it is job done this season.
When the team needed a result like away at Sheffield Wednesday and Villa by George they got one.

Don't read too much into these final few games. They won't mean anything once the play offs start.

It was similar at the end of last season. The games didn't mean anything, but all you foolish nobbers over analysed and Brian ended up getting sacked for nothing.

Sacked for nothing?

The only 'progress' we were making that season (not just towards the end) was downwards and we were bored silly with shyte football and even worse results. Even those who say they are bored with Jaap's football would have to accept it's brought good results and progress in the right direction.

McDermott was sacked because you can't progress through sentimentality alone and we desperately needed to 'move on'.

Think there's more to BM going than just the end of season results when even Alex Ferguson would had difficulty getting anywhere with the personnel and the fact the season had really ended for Reading when the club unluckily lost to Palace in the cup.

[Pat Butchers Ring]

There's been games this season (away from home normally) where we just can't put a tackle in, stop crosses and generally make two passes. It happened at Fulham, U tied, Norwich, Brighton and yesterday. It's like a different team just turns up.

My thoughts are that it's normally the midfield of Kelly, Williams, beerens, mcleary etc that aren't defensive enough.

We need to sort this out for the playoffs as it will be all over in the first leg.

[Victor Meldrew]

That was embarrassing. Stam's fixation with a set style of play maybe his downfall. Tactically naive from the kick off. Is this Stam's way of telling the owners what investment is required. In order to achieve the goals he has set personally. All that was required was a single point to secure a play off place.

Why do football fans use the expression "tactically naive"?

It basically says they know more about football than the manager. In this case a manager that had played at the very highest level.

Yeah right.

There have been about ten times this season when Stam has made a selection which has made me question his judgement. In all but one or two of those, he's got it absolutely right.

At this point he could play Kermorgant in goal and I'd have to accept that he was probably right.

I always find it odd when posters have a go on a football website at another poster who DARES to say anything derogatory about a manager on the basis that the manager always knows best as he has played at the highest level.
I give you Neville, Hyppia, Zola, John Barnes even the great Bobby Moore as examples of top level players who have not succeeded as managers and presumably along the way have at times been accused of being tactically naive.

As for Stam, a top defender and yet , for whatever reason, cannot get his team to defend as successfully as they do at home.
Presumably tactics do come into it as the defenders are the same players.
I think it revolves around the ever-present Gunter in that he has played every game, home and away, in the league-he doesn't have much to do defensively in home games but when he needs to stand up and be counted away from home he is just a shrinking violet.
Maybe Stam doesn't see Watson as the answer but his loyalty to Gunter is unfounded and yes, naive in his first season as a manager.

Overall I feel that he has done a great job with what he has got and so far bought but on a message board I see no wrong in fans criticising when we ship 7 or give up 3 to a side just off one of the relegation spots or ship 5 against a team just below us in the league.

[CountryRoyal]

I think it revolves around the ever-present Gunter in that he has played every game, home and away, in the league-he doesn't have much to do defensively in home games but when he needs to stand up and be counted away from home he is just a shrinking violet.
Maybe Stam doesn't see Watson as the answer but his loyalty to Gunter is unfounded and yes, naive in his first season as a manager.

I'm one of Gunter's harshest critics but I'm sorry that's just bollocks. You're telling me Gunter is pretty much single handedly the reason for our away shockers? At Norwich he was probably one of our best players (doesn't say a lot) but the reason is much greater than the fault of any one player.

We have a lot of inconsistent performances symptomatic of a new team and a new manager trying to play a set new style which a lot of them aren't yet comfortable with. At times we've been very good but at times we've been dire as well. Home and away. The only difference is we get put under less pressure at home and so aren't tested anywhere near as much, it means when we have an off day we won't necessarily get punished. Away from home by and large teams are more attacking, close us down more and then for the most part we are exposed at times. The longer both seem to occur then the mental aspect will come into play, improved confidence at home, and potential nerves on the road.

Its not like we play any differently away from home (by choice), it's just were not quite good enough yet in this current style of play to consistently cope with defences pressing high and with intensity.

To say that about a team currently sitting third just shows how far we've come, but we're still a long way off the finished article.

[stealthpapes]

Forest's time wasting was infuriating. Kicking/throwing the ball away. Stopping us take our throw ins. The ballgirls just decided to go AWOL and not do their job. Pathetic way of trying to grind out the win they should be embarrassed.

But if we do it its ok right?

There were two that were pretty ludicrous - one by Ward(?) that got a booking and one where the ball had gone for a goal kick and the defender kicked it to the corner flag.

Anyway, they were aggressive and on to every 50:50. We were better at 3 down, got 2 deservedly, with a lovely spell of pressure, think the penalty might have been another day.

And then, in the last ten minutes, Forest played for touch and it was

[stealthpapes]

Did we stop their left winger from just running past Gunts/Popa at any point? Every single time, my sphincter twitched.

One further thought, while the walk to the ground is pretty pish, its a lovely ground to arrive early to, sit by the river and watch the womens quad skulls. Anyone know what the biker motorcade was for?

[Royality creeps In]

Those Bikes went on for 10-15 minutes at least
Pretty impressive ( Unlike our performance )

[North Somerset Royal]

Those Bikes went on for 10-15 minutes at least
Pretty impressive ( Unlike our performance )

I was enjoying a quiet coffee at Tamworth services en route when those noisy bar stewards came in revving their f****** engines and giving me a bigger headache than Forests winger gave Popa and Gunts!

[leon]

Why do football fans use the expression "tactically naive"?

It basically says they know more about football than the manager. In this case a manager that had played at the very highest level.

Yeah right.

There have been about ten times this season when Stam has made a selection which has made me question his judgement. In all but one or two of those, he's got it absolutely right.

At this point he could play Kermorgant in goal and I'd have to accept that he was probably right.

I always find it odd when posters have a go on a football website at another poster who DARES to say anything derogatory about a manager on the basis that the manager always knows best as he has played at the highest level.
I give you Neville, Hyppia, Zola, John Barnes even the great Bobby Moore as examples of top level players who have not succeeded as managers and presumably along the way have at times been accused of being tactically naive.

As for Stam, a top defender and yet , for whatever reason, cannot get his team to defend as successfully as they do at home.
Presumably tactics do come into it as the defenders are the same players.
I think it revolves around the ever-present Gunter in that he has played every game, home and away, in the league-he doesn't have much to do defensively in home games but when he needs to stand up and be counted away from home he is just a shrinking violet.
Maybe Stam doesn't see Watson as the answer but his loyalty to Gunter is unfounded and yes, naive in his first season as a manager.

Overall I feel that he has done a great job with what he has got and so far bought but on a message board I see no wrong in fans criticising when we ship 7 or give up 3 to a side just off one of the relegation spots or ship 5 against a team just below us in the league.

Victor I'm querying why people use the expression. It's fcuking annoying and actually meaningless.

[muirinho]

As for Stam, a top defender and yet , for whatever reason, cannot get his team to defend as successfully as they do at home.
Presumably tactics do come into it as the defenders are the same players.
I think it revolves around the ever-present Gunter in that he has played every game, home and away, in the league-he doesn't have much to do defensively in home games but when he needs to stand up and be counted away from home he is just a shrinking violet.
Maybe Stam doesn't see Watson as the answer but his loyalty to Gunter is unfounded and yes, naive in his first season as a manager.

Ah, the usual escapegoat. Here's a little stat for you.

Away games with Gunter as captain - Goals Scored 13. Goals Conceded 15. ppg 1.56

Away games with Macca as captain - Goals scored12. Goals Conceded 29. ppg 1.25

If he's such a shrinking violet away from home, how on earth is he coping as captain?

Maybe it's not Stam's loyalty that is unfounded, but your unrelenting prejudice against a decent player.

[Davezk]

What's an escapegoat?

[NewCorkSeth]

As for Stam, a top defender and yet , for whatever reason, cannot get his team to defend as successfully as they do at home.
Presumably tactics do come into it as the defenders are the same players.
I think it revolves around the ever-present Gunter in that he has played every game, home and away, in the league-he doesn't have much to do defensively in home games but when he needs to stand up and be counted away from home he is just a shrinking violet.
Maybe Stam doesn't see Watson as the answer but his loyalty to Gunter is unfounded and yes, naive in his first season as a manager.

Ah, the usual escapegoat. Here's a little stat for you.

Away games with Gunter as captain - Goals Scored 13. Goals Conceded 15. ppg 1.56

Away games with Macca as captain - Goals scored12. Goals Conceded 29. ppg 1.25

If he's such a shrinking violet away from home, how on earth is he coping as captain?

Maybe it's not Stam's loyalty that is unfounded, but your unrelenting prejudice against a decent player.

I gotta ask. How many games is that each?

[WestRoyal]

As for Stam, a top defender and yet , for whatever reason, cannot get his team to defend as successfully as they do at home.
Presumably tactics do come into it as the defenders are the same players.
I think it revolves around the ever-present Gunter in that he has played every game, home and away, in the league-he doesn't have much to do defensively in home games but when he needs to stand up and be counted away from home he is just a shrinking violet.
Maybe Stam doesn't see Watson as the answer but his loyalty to Gunter is unfounded and yes, naive in his first season as a manager.

Ah, the usual escapegoat. Here's a little stat for you.

Away games with Gunter as captain - Goals Scored 13. Goals Conceded 15. ppg 1.56

Away games with Macca as captain - Goals scored12. Goals Conceded 29. ppg 1.25

If he's such a shrinking violet away from home, how on earth is he coping as captain?

Maybe it's not Stam's loyalty that is unfounded, but your unrelenting prejudice against a decent player.

good post Muirinho

[Top Flight]

Absobloodylutely! Although having been to the Fulham and Man Utd debacles earlier in the year, I'd say this wasn't as bad by any stretch. IMO yesterday we really should have equalised....The panic that set in the Forest players after Yann's first shows why they are where they are. Previous to that, they'd looked like the team in our position. If we finish 3rd or 4th, having the away leg of the play off first scares me. We could be 3 or 4 goals behind by the start of the 2nd leg!

I don't think it will go like that in the play offs. We will play with higher intensity, concentration and aggression in those all important playoff games.

We have a tendency to drop off and get complacent when it looks like it is job done this season.
When the team needed a result like away at Sheffield Wednesday and Villa by George they got one.

Don't read too much into these final few games. They won't mean anything once the play offs start.

It was similar at the end of last season. The games didn't mean anything, but all you foolish nobbers over analysed and Brian ended up getting sacked for nothing.

Sacked for nothing?

The only 'progress' we were making that season (not just towards the end) was downwards and we were bored silly with shyte football and even worse results. Even those who say they are bored with Jaap's football would have to accept it's brought good results and progress in the right direction.

McDermott was sacked because you can't progress through sentimentality alone and we desperately needed to 'move on'.

Of course Brian made progress. Who signed Yann Kermorgant and George Evans? Brian was up to his old tricks in the transfer market bringing in great players. He hardly had a chance. If Brian had the summer window as well you can only imagine the quality he would have brought to the club. Brian is an RFC legend. You're a fool for judging him on meaningless games when the players had given up and based on just 3 months of work.

Don't repeat your foolishness again with Stam by judging him on meaningless fixtures when he is experimenting.
He is not tactically naive by playing Popa as a right back. He needs to know if Popa can do a job there. That will effect his tactical decision making in games to come. Like Brian, Stam is a top manager. Unfortunately the nobbers are impatient fools that over analyse and poorly analyse every situation. The Only geniuses around here are Stam, Top Flight, Tevreden and Madejski. Rest of you lot are fools.

[muirinho]

As for Stam, a top defender and yet , for whatever reason, cannot get his team to defend as successfully as they do at home.
Presumably tactics do come into it as the defenders are the same players.
I think it revolves around the ever-present Gunter in that he has played every game, home and away, in the league-he doesn't have much to do defensively in home games but when he needs to stand up and be counted away from home he is just a shrinking violet.
Maybe Stam doesn't see Watson as the answer but his loyalty to Gunter is unfounded and yes, naive in his first season as a manager.

Ah, the usual escapegoat. Here's a little stat for you.

Away games with Gunter as captain - Goals Scored 13. Goals Conceded 15. ppg 1.56

Away games with Macca as captain - Goals scored12. Goals Conceded 29. ppg 1.25

If he's such a shrinking violet away from home, how on earth is he coping as captain?

Maybe it's not Stam's loyalty that is unfounded, but your unrelenting prejudice against a decent player.

I gotta ask. How many games is that each?

Well you could have counted yourself 13 away games for McShane as captain, 9 for Gunter. But I made a couple of mistakes. One, Rotherham, Gunter started as captain, but Macca came on (and scored the winning goal). So I'll include that one in Macca's total instead - giving him 14 games. And the loss to Leeds which I left off completely in the original calculation.

So - revised totals:

Gunter - 8 games, goals scored 12, goals conceded 15, ppg 1.375
Macca, 14 games, goals scored 13, goals conceded 31, ppg 1.29