BFTG Leeds

[NewCorkSeth]

Kelly made two interceptions, blocked two shots and made a clearance.

Outside of the tackle Swift made zero contribution defensively with no interceptions, blocked shots or clearances.

It's not Kelly's job to tackle. He's a player who defensively has to try to nick the ball by intercepting passes and closing down passing lanes. If you're expecting him to be a player who makes tackles, even in a successful side, then you're always going to be disappointed. Apart from anything else his frame will make it difficult for him to make successful tackles.

I knew this was coming. See above my comment that someone would use Swift being worse as an argument. It's not. Swift was shit. So was Kelly. Just because I like Swift doesn't mean I'm going to look for excuses or pass blame onto other players. I think Swift was bad and will write that in my BFTG later. Kelly was only slightly less bad.

Swift is (and was fairly last night) often lambasted for his lack of defensive contributions. But we should hold Kelly to that same standard.

You say Kelly is not that type of player well neither is Swift. Say what you want about me but I don't blindly defend a player by contradicting myself.

The difference is Kelly tracks his man and hassles him, getting goalside. Swift doesn't.

In general yes that is true. But they rarely play the same position/tactic do they? Against Wigan they played the same position (at least I thought so) and Swift did some good tracking back.
I admit Kelly is good at hassling opponents but he was completely and utterly shown up by Rinomhota last night who showed what actual dogged pursuit looks like.
I think sometimes we go too easy on Kelly for his defensive frailties because of his height. He gets in the right positions a lot but his closing down is always a second too late. He doesn't have a natural instinct for screening at all.

[Snowflake Royal]

I knew this was coming. See above my comment that someone would use Swift being worse as an argument. It's not. Swift was shit. So was Kelly. Just because I like Swift doesn't mean I'm going to look for excuses or pass blame onto other players. I think Swift was bad and will write that in my BFTG later. Kelly was only slightly less bad.

Swift is (and was fairly last night) often lambasted for his lack of defensive contributions. But we should hold Kelly to that same standard.

You say Kelly is not that type of player well neither is Swift. Say what you want about me but I don't blindly defend a player by contradicting myself.

The difference is Kelly tracks his man and hassles him, getting goalside. Swift doesn't.

In general yes that is true. But they rarely play the same position/tactic do they? Against Wigan they played the same position (at least I thought so) and Swift did some good tracking back.
I admit Kelly is good at hassling opponents but he was completely and utterly shown up by Rinomhota last night who showed what actual dogged pursuit looks like.
I think sometimes we go too easy on Kelly for his defensive frailties because of his height. He gets in the right positions a lot but his closing down is always a second too late. He doesn't have a natural instinct for screening at all.

You certainly don't go easy on him. You're almost as hard on him as you are easy on Swift.

[NewCorkSeth]

The difference is Kelly tracks his man and hassles him, getting goalside. Swift doesn't.

In general yes that is true. But they rarely play the same position/tactic do they? Against Wigan they played the same position (at least I thought so) and Swift did some good tracking back.
I admit Kelly is good at hassling opponents but he was completely and utterly shown up by Rinomhota last night who showed what actual dogged pursuit looks like.
I think sometimes we go too easy on Kelly for his defensive frailties because of his height. He gets in the right positions a lot but his closing down is always a second too late. He doesn't have a natural instinct for screening at all.

You certainly don't go easy on him. You're almost as hard on him as you are easy on Swift.

I praise him when he's good.

[genome]

Let's all enjoy this photo of Chris Gunter having a nice relaxing time on his imaginary sunbed as Leeds score.

[Old Man Andrews]

Let's all enjoy this photo of Chris Gunter having a nice relaxing time on his imaginary sunbed as Leeds score.

"Alexa, show me an image that sums up Chris Gunter's Reading FC career"

[Snowflake Royal]

Let's all enjoy this photo of Chris Gunter having a nice relaxing time on his imaginary sunbed as Leeds score.

Harsh. He'd just done his job helping Moore and blocking a clear goalscoring opportunity, only to find the player who should be backing him up was a spectator on the edge of our box out of shot.

[genome]

Christ. Do you have to take the contrarian view to everything?

[Old Man Andrews]

Let's all enjoy this photo of Chris Gunter having a nice relaxing time on his imaginary sunbed as Leeds score.

Harsh. He'd just done his job helping Moore and blocking a clear goalscoring opportunity, only to find the player who should be backing him up was a spectator on the edge of our box out of shot.

Good lord the Chris Gunter support crew will say anything to back him won't they...............

[NewCorkSeth]

Let's all enjoy this photo of Chris Gunter having a nice relaxing time on his imaginary sunbed as Leeds score.

Harsh. He'd just done his job helping Moore and blocking a clear goalscoring opportunity, only to find the player who should be backing him up was a spectator on the edge of our box out of shot.

Good lord the Chris Gunter support crew will say anything to back him won't they...............

Ian is many, many things. But he is not a Gunter fan.

[Old Man Andrews]

Christ. Do you have to take the contrarian view to everything?

Have you not met Ian before?

[genome]

Christ. Do you have to take the contrarian view to everything?

Have you not met Ian before?

I would say yes but then he'd probably disagree with me.

[Snowflake Royal]

Christ. Do you have to take the contrarian view to everything?

Only stuff that's not fair or wrong.

[sandman]

To be fair Kelly was dispossessed twice, put in 0 successful tackles and only 63% of his total of 30 passes found a team mate.

Kelly made two interceptions, blocked two shots and made a clearance.

Outside of the tackle Swift made zero contribution defensively with no interceptions, blocked shots or clearances.

It's not Kelly's job to tackle. He's a player who defensively has to try to nick the ball by intercepting passes and closing down passing lanes. If you're expecting him to be a player who makes tackles, even in a successful side, then you're always going to be disappointed. Apart from anything else his frame will make it difficult for him to make successful tackles.

I knew this was coming. See above my comment that someone would use Swift being worse as an argument. It's not. Swift was shit. So was Kelly. Just because I like Swift doesn't mean I'm going to look for excuses or pass blame onto other players. I think Swift was bad and will write that in my BFTG later. Kelly was only slightly less bad.

Swift is (and was fairly last night) often lambasted for his lack of defensive contributions. But we should hold Kelly to that same standard.

You say Kelly is not that type of player well neither is Swift. Say what you want about me but I don't blindly defend a player by contradicting myself.

I didn't see your post about Swift being "shite", was busy typing my own with a predictive text system that predicts words that don't bloody exist.

I didn't say Swift was that type of player either, in fact I had put that point in but, honest mistake, I must have deleted it out without thinking.

I used the stats because it's clearly a way you like to argue. I'm not blindly defending Kelly because I like him, mainly because I don't like him. Especially since his "we aren't worried about relegation" comment at the back end of last season.

I just feel you have a clear agenda against him and I believe, despite your stats, that the reason is outside of his actions for the Reading team.

[Norfolk Royal]

Agree with most of the comments above. Watched it on TV and the main thing I took from the game was the performance of the young Rhino lad. He looks a real prospect to me.

When a player unsullied by failure comes in like the young Rhino it gives the other players a boost. Particularly thought that Yiadom and Bacuna raised their game as a result of seeing the young lad giving it his all.

Best team performance I've seen all season in general although we were lucky with a few unintentional blocks that could have seen us ship a few goals on another day but perhaps expected against a top team. Leeds were very good and will be up there if they maintain that level of performance.

Familiar frailties were there of course, Gunter caught out of position, giving the ball away, were still there but less so that I've seen thus far.

Loader did very well in the first half but tired a bit I think. Winced at that weak header he did when well placed.

Agree with the Swift conundrum as mentioned above. Can create goals but will have to improve his all round defensive play and work rate if he is not to be a bit part player. All in all was encouraged by that performance.

[Sutekh]

Sorry but I disagree, he didn't create one thing today. It's not just the fact he gives the ball away, it's the fact he just watches and never tries to win it back after he's lost ut

Considering we were playing 4-3-2-1 with Swift on the left side, I'd rather McCleary play there, he works well with Gunter, so will help him out more and he may actually play the ball to his own team occasionally. Summed it up after about 55 minutes when we were on the break 3 against 3 and he did an atrocious touch straight into the defender which IIRC nearly resulted in a goal for them

After a few decent games earlier in the season, he has really disappointed again the last few games and I would be very surprised and annoyed if he is in the 11 against Stoke, particularly against a strong physical Rowett side most probably

I’m afraid I have to agree. Have always rated Swift but sick of lack of work rate. We are in a relegation battle and struggling to pick up points. We absolutely cannot afford half hearted players in the side.

Yet at the same time, we cant afford to drop a creative outlet and reduce our goal threat? That's the frustrating thing about his sort of player - when it isn't going well they stand out as poor (or disinterested / playing with 10 etc), but when it is going well they are usually at the heart of it (see criticism of Ozil too). My point was in games like this, the former is more likely as possession will be rare.

I agree with the suggestion that if Clement was to drop him it would have to be for a player playing a different role - McCleary playing a more genuine wide role could be exactly that (and offer better support to the full back). Dropping him and playing 3 CMs of Bacuna, Rinomhota and Kelly would however be ineffective going forward IMO.

Just out of interest, anyone have stats on the following:

How many goals have Reading scored with Swift on the pitch?
How many of those goals has he assisted/scored?
How many points have Reading managed from games with Swift playing some part?

Like Swift but think that last night McCleary would have been a better option.

[genome]

Christ. Do you have to take the contrarian view to everything?

Only stuff that's not fair or wrong.

It was a joke, Ian. The photo is funny and taken at an inopportune moment. Do you have a sense of humour?

[NewCorkSeth]

Kelly made two interceptions, blocked two shots and made a clearance.

Outside of the tackle Swift made zero contribution defensively with no interceptions, blocked shots or clearances.

It's not Kelly's job to tackle. He's a player who defensively has to try to nick the ball by intercepting passes and closing down passing lanes. If you're expecting him to be a player who makes tackles, even in a successful side, then you're always going to be disappointed. Apart from anything else his frame will make it difficult for him to make successful tackles.

I knew this was coming. See above my comment that someone would use Swift being worse as an argument. It's not. Swift was shit. So was Kelly. Just because I like Swift doesn't mean I'm going to look for excuses or pass blame onto other players. I think Swift was bad and will write that in my BFTG later. Kelly was only slightly less bad.

Swift is (and was fairly last night) often lambasted for his lack of defensive contributions. But we should hold Kelly to that same standard.

You say Kelly is not that type of player well neither is Swift. Say what you want about me but I don't blindly defend a player by contradicting myself.

I didn't see your post about Swift being "shite", was busy typing my own with a predictive text system that predicts words that don't bloody exist.

I didn't say Swift was that type of player either, in fact I had put that point in but, honest mistake, I must have deleted it out without thinking.

I used the stats because it's clearly a way you like to argue. I'm not blindly defending Kelly because I like him, mainly because I don't like him. Especially since his "we aren't worried about relegation" comment at the back end of last season.

I just feel you have a clear agenda against him and I believe, despite your stats, that the reason is outside of his actions for the Reading team.

I feel like I'm perfectly fair on Kelly.

[stealthpapes]

Can't disagree with much of this. Thought their goal was on the softer side. Kinda could see the penalty miss coming. A 0-0 or a 1-1 and we'd not be complaining.

At one point they focused on Swift and he had the thousand yard stare of a Jack Russell at Spacey's house. Odd.

[Snowflake Royal]

Christ. Do you have to take the contrarian view to everything?

Only stuff that's not fair or wrong.

It was a joke, Ian. The photo is funny and taken at an inopportune moment. Do you have a sense of humour?

Find me something funny and we'll see.

[Snowflake Royal]

Christ. Do you have to take the contrarian view to everything?

Only stuff that's not fair or wrong.

It was a joke, Ian. The photo is funny and taken at an inopportune moment. Do you have a sense of humour?

Find me something funny and we'll see.